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  • #10693
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    The spam flter is preventing me from posting illustrative images or links. There are some images in the thread I linked to above.

    #10692
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hi Wil, I’m in complete agreement with you regarding the basic questions about materials and shapes. I had proposed something along these lines earlier; basically that we take inspiration from the lego or PVC pipe model. So we could have 5-6 basic shapes of 3-4 meter dimension (hollow foam filled cylinders closed at both ends of 2-3 sizes, T and + shaped connectors etc) that could be connected to make spars and similar structures, and place steel container based accomodation on top. The advantages are standardization and ease of transport and assembly.

    The connections will be the critical part. I believe that welding or turn-buckling the reinforcing steel members together should be feasible.

    Here are a few links:

    http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/structure-designs/small-snap-fit-parts-easy-seastead-construction

    Unfortunately I have been unable to make a suitable 1:10 size mould to try a few joint concepts. I’m willing to spend a bit of money on this. Any suggestions?

    #9084
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Are you planning to build one now? Maybe you should try a 1:4 scale one first and see how it behaves before building a full scale 6 meter one. My worry is that in rough waters it might either sway a lot or be overtopped by waves..

    #9083
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hey Wil, can I just point out; 6 meter dia comes to about 28 sq meters, not 40..

    #9078
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    That’s a valid point. Unfortunately I’m one of the “saturated” middle-class types who’s deeply attracted to the concept, but is having to put things off due to family, career etc reasons.

    Are you suggesting that you/TSI provide the real pioneers you mention above with the 3000 USD floating platform you’ve described on another thread? It is a intriguing and promising idea. Personally I agree that these people are the ones with the most incentive and inclination to try this out. Maybe you should speak to some of these guys with experience of the sea and get their feedback?

    One question: what about mobility for these platforms? You would need some means of avoiding drift/beaching.

    #9072
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hey Ellmer, 3000 USD for 40sq meters sounds really good! Did you meant 30,000 USD by chance??

    If not, what’ll be the shape and other structural details like shell thickness etc? What about transportation costs? Keep the ideas flowing!

    #9009
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Vince is definitely correct that lack of hands-on experimentation is holding us back. I’m guilty in this regard too. I’m planning to try out making a small pool sized concrete sparship (see links below) using a methodology I’d proposed earlier (see 3rd and 4th links).

    http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/structure-designs/sparship?page=1

    http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/structure-designs/sparship-2-h-configuration

    http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/structure-designs/small-snap-fit-parts-easy-seastead-construction

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Image:Snap_fit_parts_and_example_seastead.jpg

    However one of my main worries, after visiting some local floating fish farms, is the corrosiveness of the marine environment; all their steel bolts holding the structure together are rusted almost to the core after only a couple of years. I’m therefore looking for some detailed guidance as to how concrete can be made sea worthy, particularly preventing sea water ingress and corrosion of the reinforcing steel bars.

    I’m sure it can be done since there’re many examples of ferroboats and other long lasting marine concrete structures, but I haven’t been able to find details of water/cement/sand ratios, additives required, type of steel etc.

    Can anyone help out with this info?

    #8792
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hey Ellmer, I have visited your website and found the concept of concrete submarines very intriguing. However recently I have visited some floating fish farms noticed very severe corrosion of the bolts used to hold the wooden platforms together. As far as I know, these are galvanized steel bolts.

    Won’t the same problem arise in concrete submarines as well as floating concrete shells? Are there any simple solutions?

    #8769
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    I’ll make it a point to come and visit next time I’m in the area. How do you plan to keep the structure stationary?

    #7857
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hey GP, I second Oceanopolis’s request for more details. Keep in mind that if you just weave tyres together in the way mentioned in Patri’s blog a few days ago, you won’t get much buoyancy (not enough to place housing etc on top). You may need to embed some buoyancy providing material in there such as plastic bottles or 55 gallon drums.

    I’m not in the market for seasteads at this time, but anyway, here are my numbers for the questions you ask:

    1) I’d be able to fork out about 20-30K USD for a seastead at the most. That’s really low compared to the cost of a house, but the thing is, you can’t get mortgages for this sort of thing (presumably), and I wouldn’t want to place all my eggs in one basket.

    2) i’d want an area of about 1500+ sq feet, ideally more.

    3) Are you planning to place some habitation on top? Infrastructure like power/water etc?

    Lastly, I’m quite impressed to see someone really getting out there and building something! More power to you man!

    #7798
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Despite the fact that we’re nowhere close to the position of having to really deal with this topic, I say a seastead ought to have a small standing army and a much larger civilian reserve (regularly trained). For instance, the Israelis seem to be doing well with just this system.

    While a civilian militia is most compatible with a libertarian perspective, history indicates that a trained and prepared army will prevail over a larger but disorganised conscript militia.

    Also, standing armies spend peacetime developing new weapons technologies, tactics, stockpiling resources etc, things that a part-time militia will not do (or at least not as well). Whether or not you approve of the above, the fact remains that these are the ingredients that military success requires.

    #7714
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hey Andrew, here are my views on the subject.

    In a hypothetical world before society was formed, all men are completely free and under no obligation to anyone else i.e. no laws exist. This society is completely free, but also very insecure, as there is no injunction stopping your neighbor from stealing your goat or life, and vice versa. As a consequence most of the time and energy of these people is devoted to the unproductive task of defending against one’s neighbor. Being productive could actually be a drawback as this may make you a target of acquisitive neighbors.

    Now, say you sign a contract with your neighbor, establishing some codes of behavior. These include rights of private property, life, etc. This also includes a clause which makes for mutual defence against third parties. Now you have more time to devote to growing crops/cattle, or developing new technologies (such as spears or atl-atls). As a result of the improved nutrition and technology, you and your neighbor can now dominate third parties, and they in turn are left with no choice but to sign the aforementioned contract. Over time, the contract becomes universal, giving rise to certain codes of behavior,that we now call morality.

    Unfortunately, it did not quite happen this way. The “contract” is implicit, so there are many differing interpretations. You (and I) have libertarian views,meaning that we prefer a society where the sanctity of property is paramount. Your prof thinks that while private property is ok, the broader community (of which the state is a representative, ideally) has the right to take it away when deemed necessary.

    The problem is that since the contract is implicit, neither of you can really be right or wrong; you’ll just be talking past each other about YOUR preferences about how an implicit agreement should be.

    This is where seasteading comes in, hopefully allowing the establishment of societies subscribing to a variety of contracts, whose performance over time will clarify what works best.

    P.S: I get the impression that you are deferring too much to “philosophers”. I have taken a course in Philosophy myself, and honestly, most theories were pretty hare-brained. So see these guys for what they are,mostly normal people with some good and plenty of bad ideas.

    #7625
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Welcome xnsdvd! I’m particularly glad to see you here since I’m from Singapore too! Maybe we could start a Asia-Pacific Chapter or something.

    #7570
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Good work Vince. Let me know if you need some help. Seems fairly complete to me.

    #7527
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    The method might be suitable for storage of energy, but not production, which is the rate limiting part. You still have to supply pure hydrogen, a component that involves much energy expenditure. Maybe a carrier could use this method to convert nuclear energy into hydrocarbons, but for seasteading purposes, it isn’t useful.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 103 total)