Forum Replies Created
February 18, 2014 at 8:32 am #22929
Ellmer said : Can a single person on a low budget start building something on the water that starts with “dinghy size” and finally ends up as a Seastead?
I am still wondering how, or if, you can flag a vessel and then drastically change it’s shape or size, without needing to get it flagged as a different vessel.
Lets say i start with my base module size, and it is approved, and then i add to it, and the uscg tells me this is not the vessel i had the title and boat tag/registration for, tells me this seastead they are standing on is unregistered because it is 20x60ft and not the 20×20 base module size any more, and they confiscate it, put me in jail, and sink my seastead. Doesn’t that put a dent in the “start small and grow to be a seastead” process?
I could maybe launch 5 modules as separate vessels and raft them together, but what if the point is to not have 5 separate boats moving in different ways with the wave swells?
For seasteading, there is simply not enough data available. What country allows Ellmer’s question: “Can a single person on a low budget start building something on the water that starts with “dinghy size” and finally ends up as a Seastead?”? And then, of course, you cannot live in one country with a permanently installed personal seastead that’s flagged in another country, so Ocean’s MMK cannot flag anywhere but the usa, and does no one know if the usa will register a water vessel that grows like he (and i) plan to do? Can we argue adding to the vessel is same as changing a 8ft truckbed to a 10ft truckbed, and simply amend the paperwork?
How DO you grow a seastead?February 17, 2014 at 10:42 am #22923
Sparky, you aren’t worth me allocating space for. But if i see you on the water, i’ll go the other way. And i already know no one cares about me, that’s no insult. I’d bet that 50% of people who read your posts will believe you should build a boat hull with cinder blocks (as you say), and that’s an instant 50% who i wouldn’t be friends with. A good 50% of the rest wouldn’t be friends with me because i am correct, and they aren’t, and i know it, so good riddance to them as well. I am not building to be away from land because it’s a great place to be, i am building there to be away from you and your friends.February 17, 2014 at 9:12 am #22921
Sparky making a concrete dinghy, it’s been 15 minutes since i read that, and i am still lmao!February 16, 2014 at 7:25 pm #22917
Ocean, just going by what i see online. I know the internet has a high noise:data ratio, but when the noise level equals the data level the truth is even harder to figure out. Often times it’s like people talking about “cinder block” when they mean “concrete block”, and when they shouldn’t be considering using blocks at all. It was the 70′s the last time i was out of sight of land on a boat alone (and i didn’t use a marina), i’m sure things have changed, i just want the necessary heads-up warnings and fyi’s.
Regarding charts, it’s fuzzy to me if they are talking about 10,000 ton ships or everyone. Anyhow, i’d want current charts, but if i get behind on updates i don’t want a $500 fine. I certainly have heard that electronic charts are not acceptable to the uscg when they demand to see your charts, they want to see paper charts. Again, perhaps that’s just for the big boats? Anyhow, i’d print them out, just because paper charts don’t need batteries.
As for the distance offshore to anchor, i was outside today, working to the sound of gunfile echoing thru the valley below, and dogs barking, humans screaming at each other, gocarts and minibikes with no mufflers. At least the wind was from the west, theres a number of families to the east who keep smoulding trash piles going, and the stench is horrible. I am seriously fed up with it all. I want to be out of touch of that interference (and drunk rednecks), no matter what, but close enough to keep a mail/parcel drop box i can visit once a week, rent a car if i need to, get groceries, get fuel, whatever. Besides, i prize stability in a boat, and hope to take advantage of more stationary deeper water when at anchor. The gotcha to deeper water is there can be terrific bottom scour currents on the continental shelf, which west Fla has in abundance.
I am taking a 15min break from building a 1″:1′ model (to explain my plan and get approval from the local “marine police” and whatever uscg i need to), before i cut too much steel for the real thing. If a picture is worth 1000 words, a scale model must be worth 1,000,000 words. I’d feel better if i had official words that i won’t be pre-emptively disallowed to launch when the real thing is built and ready to go. Already cut some of the pricey stuff. Going back to it now………February 16, 2014 at 3:59 pm #22915
This is interesting also: http://newint.org/features/1981/07/01/phoenix/ , note it is dated 1981.February 15, 2014 at 9:24 pm #22909
Maybe Ancientman is associated with this system of freedom from interference: http://newint.org/features/1981/07/01/phoenix/February 14, 2014 at 10:57 am #22899
First, get your materials straight. You talk of cinder blocks and concrete. Cinder blocks are not made of gravel concrete, they are made with cinders, they don’t weight as much and don’t cost as much and are not as durable as concrete blocks. Cement blocks are even denser, to point of being airtight, but they aren’t common.
You didn’t allow for any steel to take the tension in the middle of the walls, cement and concrete do not take much tension to crack, and cinders are far worse. Besides, you will need another couple 100 lbs to skim coat it to make it watertight, or heavy paint.
This sort of “engineering” is scary.February 13, 2014 at 6:14 am #22886
Sorry, i do not have $billions to re-create Venice, or even $millions to rent a room there.February 12, 2014 at 6:06 pm #22884
Virtually anything involving a pole in the water, if you don’t want the pole bent, broken, needs to be designed to stay intact, right? Anything from an antenna on a submarine, to a pole you drive into the lake bottom to keep the seastead more localised than an anchor, or any form of tower, really. If you look at the Diamond Shoals tower, there’s several spans of poles missing at the wave zone of that tower, and they all vanished the year it was auctioned. While that is an extreme idea of a “pole”, being those legs are ~44 inches diameter, it would matter to know what a minimum diameter pole could replace the missing parts. It’s a balancing act, the smaller poles have less wave resistance, but are also less stiff.
I don’t suppose you’d want to make a rope harness to drag a 3″ diameter pole (pvc pipe, electrical EMT, whatever) behind a boat and measure it’s drag at various knots/mph with a fish scale? Or a 4″ diameter? Anything? The pole would need to stay below the surface to be most accurate. It would not be the same as being vertical in a wave, but it would be a starting point.February 12, 2014 at 5:37 pm #22882
There is a formula, there’s maybe a dozen formulas, none of which make sense, they give results in newtons, have pressure in torr, etc.. And none tell me what the WATER in the wave is doing, a wave is not a lateral movement of water, we should all know by now that the water in a wave moves up, down, to and fro, in a circular motion. This naturally means in a pole long enough to extend vertically thru the entire wave, the water is moving in many directions as the water level goes from trough to peak to trough. I don’t have data on that movement to plug into the formulas, even if the formulas made sense to me.
The issue isn’t so much about the pole breaking, as much as it’s movement and fatigue cracking. A 3 inch diameter length of tubing will not start crushing until it get a load over 15 tons on it, if it is held perfectly vertical. But if it is deflected to one side, it will fold up under much less weight. And if it is bent far enough, and bent repetitively enough times, it will fail with *no weight* on it.
I am guessing my only option is to build it and sit on it thru a hurricane and see if it fails.February 12, 2014 at 4:23 pm #22880
And what is that in pounds per foot of pole?February 12, 2014 at 2:46 pm #22878
I did not ask about freak waves, i asked about the forces of a normal wave. Any water moving against the pole, what is the force in pounds against the pole, as the water in the wave moves in a circular motion around the pole?February 12, 2014 at 2:38 pm #22876
That is not true. If it were true then the spiral ladder around one of the legs of Diamond Shoals light tower would not be missing from the wave zone. See the left-most leg on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Diamond_shoal_light.jpgFebruary 12, 2014 at 2:03 pm #22874
Obviously, i did not make my question clear enough in terms you understand. Let me try again…
Lets say i have one of those submerged concrete ball seasteads that works like you say it will, and all is happy and wonderful. Then i decide to anchor 100 miles offshore, in an appropriate place, and everything is happy and wonderful, except i cannot pick up my favorite radio station anymore, because i am 100 miles away from it. I need a pole with an antenna on top. So i stick a 20ft/6m pole, 4inches/10cm diameter, with a radio antenna on top to the roof of my concrete submarine ball. The next day a 13ft/4m wave washes over the concrete ball submarine, and the submarine is all happy and wonderful. What forces were on my antenna pole?February 9, 2014 at 12:57 pm #22841
Yes, Oceanopolus, i knew you have been on the water a lot, but you and i and Sparky aren’t half the people here, so i still win the bet! But your version of boating is way out of my price range.
I’ve spent the last few months putting up walls around where i am grinding on steel plate for the next boat. The roof has been up, tossing up walls as noise abatement. Walls keep the sparks out of the woods too.