Forum Replies Created
March 2, 2014 at 4:52 am #23012
Ocean, in a hurricane area such as Florida you might consider a floating dome which is clearly a last structure standing item (see foto – after tornado), instead of a vulnerable houseboat and pontoon raft up, to create living space on the water…March 1, 2014 at 6:05 am #23006
The tecnical feasibility of floating concrete honeycomb and shell islands is not really in discussion the feasibility of working business models for oceanic ventures either.
It is predicted that there will be more concrete casted on the watersurface than on land as the world becomes more and more ocean oriented in the 21St Century.
Oceanic business will develop among at least 6 general axes: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/f544143/the-axes-of-ocean-colonization-surface/
This is not a “prediction of a possible future” it is happening on large scale already.
The pacific the mid ocean ridges are Goldmines – literally in a mining sense.
Real Estate Development on the water (starting in bays) is big business.
In Singapore a price of 800 USD per squaremeter landfill is usual, floating concrete honeycomb and shell structures can be performed at prices ranging from USD 166 to USD 500 – we have tested that in projects.
The baseline is you can build floating honeycomb structures of any size to real estate prices that make them sellable at the existing real estate market.
You can build tubular concrete shell structures for waterdepth of down to 500m and sphere shells for waterdepth of 1000 m (including decent 1:3 safety factors)
The reasons why oceanic business development is the next big thing to come are more than obvious:
http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/February 28, 2014 at 6:37 pm #23004
This concrete honeycomb shell island is actually floating…representing a different oceanic industry and business model but equally working and producing ROI (return on investment)…February 28, 2014 at 6:27 pm #23003
Sure, but this is not the point, the point is that there IS real estate value and working business plans for an island 5 km offshore, this island was also built on a cost per squaremeter compareable to the cost per squaremeter of a floating island. A floating island would have no disadvantage compared to it – on contrary it would hold the additional advantage and value of mobility. And this is the moment where a serious investor (like Elon Musk) following this thread should start to pay attention …February 28, 2014 at 2:36 pm #23000
The port island, … is 2.7 km2 (1.05 square miles) and is situated some 5 km (3.12 miles) offshore. US$2.72 billion investment – a lot of money for a “no future venture”…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalifa_PortFebruary 28, 2014 at 11:06 am #22996
Why would people bother to invest big amounts of money in something like that if there where “no possible economic future” on the water…February 27, 2014 at 4:16 am #22983
It looks like we do not have the attention of Elon Musk – at this point. Otherwise we would have recieved a call already. The baseline in “investor relations” is, that as long as you have to “explain the benefits of your venture” a lot – you are kind of “loosing your time” because somebody who is going to invest, already has a clear understanding why it is convenient to invest in this instead of something else.
In part the ramform aproach was developed to allow a extreme low project entrance level and scale it up from there depending on the budget situation. The other 2 roots of the ramform aproach is the high grade of mobility (which is a important card to play in project management – see Lozman case) and the Draupner wave handling (neccessary for the open ocean since the non linear wave model is in place).
In general i would expect that a investor would be more interested in the “mid term business potential” of a venture than in the long term “political proyecction of the seasteading ideal” –
I expect it to be easier to get money to “floating doing business platforms” than to “floating social experimentation platforms”.
There is something in Thiels concept that the fastest track to make things happen is to avoid politic entanglement altogether.
It also seems that doing good business allows to get everybody into the boat while doing politics tends to bring up fricction and interference on all fronts.
If you ask for the lowest scale and less interference approach to seasteading you can get it is probably something like this.
So to come up with a low scale approch for a seastead i would think in something like this…
Later scale it up to something like this…
And end up with something like a floating business park…
what over time could develop into a floating settlement
that could grow to a floating VENICE
holding politcal power, balancing powers around it, and gain a substantial independence orienting to sea trade …
In any case you would start with a small floating business of some kind. The bait barge and the floating restaurant are just examples. What else comes to mind is ship repair barges, yacht services, all kind of services to the tourism industry, aquaculture, in short any kind of business where a floating platform is a business advantage instead of being a downside.
What you would look out for is a bay with a low wave ambient where a lot of business is around to connect but you can handle interference factors conveniently mostly by playing the mobile card and keeping a couple of minute distance from shore.
The important thing would be first that you build something that attract investment and investors, and that you then can keep up the moment trough all the stages of development.February 26, 2014 at 9:38 am #22972
For a clear picture what i mean with keep the building site neat and clean avoid a “shitstorm” on the waterfront check the foto above how building sites in Mallorca situated in the highly interference sensitive neighborhood of a “yacht marina” isolate their process in a “enclosure”. Building a shell in first place allows to integrate building method and “interference avoidance strategy” in one piece of engineering and site management.
What you avoid like hell on a sensitive waterfront is this kind o appearance:
Chaos on the waterfront will guarantee interference…February 25, 2014 at 7:00 am #22964
can we please keep the threads on topic – this thread is for discussing a seasteading start on small scale…
Related threads: Ramform seastead: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t51926036/establishing-a-ramform-floating-base-in-the-high-seas-concre/ Seasteading outpost Belize:http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t46775796/seasteading-outpost-belize-a-practical-approach-how-to-find-/ Seasteading outpost Rincon:http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t46080743/seasteading-location-rincon-del-mar-colombia/
Interference in Seastead start ups: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56351996/business-and-third-party-interference-freedom/February 25, 2014 at 6:47 am #22963
Topics related to Floating business headquarters for global business networks.
Read more : Offshoring megatrend of the century: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56691920/offshoring-the-megatrend-of-the-century/ Seasteading political and business lessions from Venice: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56710025/venice-italy-how-to-do-instructions-for-seasteading-from-his/ Why going oceanic is the next big thing to come: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/ Captain Nemo Lifestyle: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43942461/the-captain-nemo-float-out-seasteading/February 19, 2014 at 6:14 am #22932
Kat, the first thing is IF you start a project always have the mindset of a “projectmanager” – never asume that what will happen is this or that. Always have clear that there is a “wide range of possible things that can happen”, divide them in scenario A,B,C,D.. have a plan for any scenario, have clear that the driving force behind what scenario is more likley to happen is the way as you set the project up, the way you interact with possible interferers. Choose the place wiseley doing it in a shipping channel or in a “low interest bay” makes a big difference in the interference you have to expect.
While the project has dinghi size consider it a “pilot project” you do it mostly to find out what exactly happens in a specific place gain experience and build on that experience down the road.
You used the word “drastic size change”, – avoid drastic – is always a good advise, drastic is inviting interference. So in a ideal world you would avoid to bring in something in houseboat size one day. You would build one bucket of material per day. So the growth of the project would be almost invisible to the observers eye.
You also used the word “vessel” keep in mind that there is a lot of “code” dealing with “vessels” and you will need to apply to all of it, if you call it a “vessel” if you call it a “micruz island” be aware that there is no code about “micruz islands” and therefore no base to interfere. You may find that the “authority” prefers the simple way and “just do nothting” finally it is not called by its “code of function” to interfere with “micruz islands” in any way. Facilitate this “way of action” – or better “non action” by keeping all neat, clean, cute, polite, in good standing so that nobody calls in authorities to deal with the “shitstorm on the waterfront”. Be aware that a nice polite man working day by day on a project chatting nicley with the policeman and a weed smoking hippie community projecting different ways of life on the waterfront – bring up completly different interference patterns. You may look for scenarios that the locals want you there, instead of just tolerate you. Look for a “backing network” – if police starts to molest a call from the major can really do wonders. Or better have the call BEFORE they start to molest. Look at the whole thing as something where you have cards to play, and need to play wisley to win the game.
Also have a phase plan, things are different while you work on the shoreline compared to working hundred meters from shore – starting with the simple fact that a interferer needs a boat to interfere. Introduce “mobility” in the building site as soon as possible and make moving the site a few miles up or down the shore a card you can play at any time.
Use the concept of “enclosure” in your favor – if you have a “platform” and a building site on the platform people will see plastic sheets, wood pieces and all kind of things “unpleaseant to the eye” normally asociated to construction sites.
If you have a kind of “shell enclosure” all building will be inside the shell and what people will see is just an nice clean dome shape on the horizon. Be aware that authorities are moving against permanent anchoring yachtie communities because they have underwear drying on the forestag. So having or not underwear on the forestag can make a total different “interference scenario”.
Read more about the interference scale 1-10: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56351996/business-and-third-party-interference-freedom/
Read more about the ramform as natural way to implement the incremental approach: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t51926036/establishing-a-ramform-floating-base-in-the-high-seas-concre/
Read more about optimizing enclosure mobility and low visibility profile to the highest possible interference freedom score: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43942461/the-captain-nemo-float-out-seasteading/February 17, 2014 at 12:33 pm #22924
please keep the forums on topic – this is in the interest of all participants…let’s talk about Oceanic Concrete Sphere Habitats here: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t46713498/submerged-living-space-bubble-concept-basics/
Floating Oceanic Concrete Shells: http://www.pinterest.com/wellmer/oceanic-concrete-shell-building/February 16, 2014 at 9:05 am #22912
Spark – try to tackle the matter along the building of fiber concrete shells. Practical experimentation will lead you down the way…
Read more about stationary bubble living space: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t46713498/submerged-living-space-bubble-concept-basics/
Read more about mobile oceanic bubble living space here: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43942461/the-captain-nemo-float-out-seasteading/
Read more about why going oceanic is the next big thing to come: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/f609102/business-case-oceanic-next-big-thing/February 15, 2014 at 7:10 am #22900
No by “non interference” i do not mean “sovereignty” i mean “not meddle with people’s private business” i mean “privacy” i mean the implementation of the glorious right of self determination and the quest for freedom and happyness whatever a person understands as such. I think the whole idea of the need of a 10.000 page rulebook that only a lawyer can understand, needing to be written, and enforced, on a not consienting population is somewhat sick. I also think that the idea that one person should be King over another and subdue that person is sick and wrong. Therefore i think that “ruling” in all fields should be developed on the base of consent. This is the base idea of democracy. I spot that in our world this democratic base idea is lost in the sea of “ruling producing buerocrats, politicians seeking lobby benefits, and enforcement agencies going wild on many levels” this whole sistem does not ask for the consient of the citicen anymore – as they should. Therefore the citicen has a democratic right to put a counterweight – to put privacy and respect in place again. This includes the right step out of non consented rule sets. The only way to do that in a civilized and legal way is “offshoring” in its widest sense, you accomodate citicenship, residency, bank account, production sites, in the right way and you are subdued by no king “de facto” as you are “out of jurisdiction for every interferer”. On a ship with a flag of convenience you still might apply to the rule set of the island nation of bunga bunga, – on paper – but bunga bunga has a agreement with all ships to “not interfere” in exchange to a moderate fee which can be considered a “consented tax” for the service of keeping interferers out of your hair. Offshoring is the ARTFORM of balancing and neutralizing the powers that try to interfere and subdue your life – as long as individuals seek self determination and privacy in a ruling infested “red taping world” – offshoring will stay megatrend.February 13, 2014 at 11:39 am #22894
Historicaly Venice is more recognized to be “part of the solution” than to be “part of the problem” in the transition from the “dark ages” to “enlightment” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_%28historiography%29
It is also more recognized to be part of “trade and interchange” than part of “war and division”. Although i assume that in its role as “successful power broker” al sides have been played somehow, and to some extent, in 1500 years of turbulent history.