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  • #16823
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    … a cargosub would be hell, I didn’t think about it. Thanks for the answer.

    @Oceanopolis, why do you say that everytime it’s submerged it needs electric power? Can’t a combustion engine works with a snorkel?

    #16812
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    Ellmer,

    If travelling on the surface is more expensive (what makes sense to me), then why people keep using cargoships instead of “cargosubs”? Does the cost of builing a submarine grows faster than linear as a function of the size, due to pressure forces, making a “huge sub” not affordable? Or is it because cargoships want to go faster, and at such speed submarine transport wouldn’t be that effective anymore? (If I remember well fluid resistence grows at a square function of the speed – I don’t know how wave resistence grows as a function of speed, I’m supposing it’s slower than a square function, making surface travelling more efficient after a certain speed)

    #16491
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    But now how do you get back into the U.S. from Blueseed when or if you need to leave? You can’t come into the U.S. from Blueseed without a valid visa, and you can’t get a visa on Blueseed because there is no embassy. Seems like it wouldn’t work…

    That’s a good question, I don’t know how it works. If you are just a rich fellow with a yatch and wants enter US by one of its ports, how does it work? Can you try to get the visa there (ports usuaully have immigration offices), or you must have gotten the visa before?

    I know US gov requires in-person interview to give a visa, what would prevent people in Blueseed from doing it by mail.

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    Again, you can’t work on Blueseed (for a company based in the U.S. at least) without a valid U.S. worker visa.

    Blueseed is not US so you don’t need US visas to work there. It doesn’t matter where the company is from. I could work for Microsoft in Ireland without a US visa, in spite of Microsoft being a US company.

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    So if you need to get a work visa anyway, why live on Blueseed?

    Another great advantage, which Blueseed is probably not marketing for in order not to attract leftist rage, is not having to pay taxes. Ok, rent and other expsenses are higher, but I imagine that for skilled labor in the end you preserve more of your money.

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    Now if the company is based on Blueseed, as in it is incorporated in the Bahamas, then you still have to worry about visa restrictions because the Bahamas does have a visa and immigration system.

    Blueseed has a strong interest in choosing a flag which doesn’t impose its immigration rules to people in a vessel.

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    And if the company is based on Blueseed, what is it going to do? You can’t manufacture anything…not enough space or power and there’s noplace to send your stuff. I guess you could do information work

    Yes, “information work”, that’s pretty much what’s done on Sillycon Valley anyway.

    #16454
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    You guys have been focusing on the visa thing pretty hard. “…provide an alternative solution to the US work visa problem” and so on. But right there in the middle of the FAQ you state that nobody living on the Blueseed vessel can earn a paycheck in the U.S. without a U.S. work visa. Plus you even say that people will probably need a business or tourist visa to get into the U.S. BEFORE they even get to the Blueseed ship. How in the name of all that is logical in the Universe can you sell Blueseed as the answer to the “United States’ current immigration and regulatory regime” if you need to get a tourist visa just to GET TO BLUESEED?

    Let’s say I live in Osaka, Japan. If I want to completely avoid U.S. customs or immigration law I can fly to Vancouver, Canada ($1300 one way), hire a boat to bring me to Blueseed ($$$$!!!!), and then pay $1200 per month to…..what? What will I do while on Blueseed? I can’t get a job with a U.S. company. I can beg people to take a 30min ferry ride from the mainland to give me a job interview…for a job that I can’t get because I don’t have a visa. I just don’t see where Blueseed offers me anything.

    It’s much easier to get a tourist visa than a job visa. Also, nationals of some countries – and I think Japan is in – don’t need any visa just to ender US. And finally, I think the idea is that you work on Blueseed (the companies would be there), only going to land when you need something there, or want to change airs a little.

    I have a particular question too. Why a boat? This has been discussed a lot on these forums, by people who seem to understand the subject (not my case!), and as far as I could notice, it seems boats are the worst structures for a seastead. Much more expensive, and shake as hell when there’s a storm. In the FAQ you say people wouldn’t get seasick, but I’m skeptical – I’ve been on a big ferry the day after a storm, and it’s impossible to walk on a straight line. People who tend to get seasick were having a really hard time there…

    Thanks, and congratulations for your work, I really wish you success!

    #16145
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    I wouldn’t expect stable prices any time soon. The “market cap” is still very small. With a little amount you can provoke a considerable change in price.

    #15890
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    The TSI already has an address for donations. It was 1FexWDptSXFWsZvdLoBckZgVFWytHjsSu8

    But check wether they are still in control of it before sending your coins.

    About the posts claiming bitcoin to be a scam, well, that’s just plain ignorance, to say the least. Seriously people, an open source project reviwed by many in the latest years, used in many commercial transactions already, making business that just can’t exist in the “credit card world” become feasible and so on, and you really think it’s a scam?

    Caution when speaking about something you don’t understand, in order not to say BS.

    #15532
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    The problem is that waves as layed out in the engineering report can reach almost ARBITRARY height and forms when certain rare conditions

    Are these rare conditions predictable (like “only when the sea is agitated”) or are they competely unpredictable?

    If they are unpredictable, then I’m sorry, but the whole idea of small submersibles won’t do it. Who will want to live submersed all the time, during weeks or months? How will these first seasteaders interact among each other? How will they earn a living?

    I was assuming the idea of submersibles was good because I thought that most of the time such submarines could stay floating on the surface. If that’s not the case, then TSI got it right: it must start with big, expensive platforms…

    #15510
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    The platform above (if there is any) must be considered the “wind weather and wave exposed part”

    Do you mean that, even if the platform is just 1,5m above sea level and has no buildings on it (max maybe a cottage that could submerged, where water could enter), only the average wind could make the structure shake?

    The new year wave on draupner platform was 20m high and came out of nothing in a 4m wave ambient.

    If waves are already on an average of 4m waves, the whole structure should be submerged way before. So I suppose a rogue wave like that wouldn’t make much damage.

    Can rogue waves come out of nothing even in calm seas? If that’s the case, then we’re screwed… you cannot expect people to be submerged all the time. If rogue waves can really show up even on calm seas, then the only option left are big, expensive platforms… :-(

    So to have a safe platform above the waves you need to go 20m – better 30m up in the air – that is not a cheap engineering task for affordable living space.

    There are two ways to avoid wave impacts – 30m up or 1m down – which one is more economic to achieve?

    Why not having a platform just 1,5m above the sea level, capable of submerge 1m below when needed?

    The main point is: seasteading in its begining will be lonely and tedious. You cannot really compare it with people who live in tiny appartments because those normally are located in big cities. Whoever lives in a tiny appartment/house, normally has lots of things to do outside his home. Lots of entertainement available. In the first years (decades?) of seasteding, there will not be such “city infrastructure”. Going back to land every weekend is probably not an option either since I suppose it would be expensive, take several hours and would kind of defeat the purpose of political independence we seek.

    A little open air space to make some parties or just enjoy a beautiful day could help fighting boredom, don’t you think?

    #15472
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    This

    Is what I was talking about here: http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/community/dreaming-/-crazy-ideas-/-speculation/fundrasing-ideas#comment-17684

    Only difference is that I imagine that with two subs instead of one, and four columns, you could build a larger platform above. There’s no reason to believe such a structure, built to be a living space, would have the same maintenance costs of an oil rig, right?

    #15392
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    I d consider the US government much more likely to intervene in any seastead than most other governments worldwide, including Mexico or Cuba. Just look at their foreign policies.

    I don t know about storms, but at least hurricanes don t exist in the South Atlantic.

    Being closer to poorer continents is also interesting concerning labor force. You ll find more people willing to immigrate to your seastead.

    And, well, the weather is a lot better in the tropics. :-)

    #15301
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    As you correctly mention you have to build 2 submarines plus a column structure, plus a platform structure, plus a building for housing on top of the platform.

    No, the living space would be inside the subs. The platform would be there just as a yard where you can make your parties/barbacues, as well as a place to attach inflatable dinghies and other stuff. The whole structure should be submersible, so the columns don’t need to be very high – only high enough to be stable on calm seas. In case of storm, just submerge. Everything on the platform would either be brought down, or be capable of submerging. At least two columns would need to be hollow, to give access to the subs.

    With two subs, it could be shared by two families. Or maybe just one wealthy family.

    Do you understand what I mean? How feasible is it? I suppose it wouldn’t be much more expensive to maintain than the cost of maintaining two separate subs, would it?

    #15176
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    cost of oil rig maintenance is 825.000 USD /day – makes 3300 USD per person/day for your set up – still think living on a oil rig is a good housing idea? – lots of fundraising…

    Ellmer, are you taking just the raw number of existent oil rigs or is this the actual cost for only the platform, already discounted all the oil pumping operations and equipment?

    I don’t understand anything about naval engineering, so I have a hard time understanding why a concrete platform would take so much more money to maintain than a concrete submarine, considering the proportions. For example, if someone buys two of your concrete submarines, adds four columns to them and put a platform some meters on top of them*, why would it be orders of magnitude more expensive to maintain such a thing than just the two submarines?

    * I don’t know if the engineering of such a thing is feasible, but that’s how I envision small size seasteads… submarine houses with some “open air” space above them, that could be sunk in the event of bad wheather.

    #13925
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    omg bitcoins crashed HARD today! i’ve had the bitcoinwatch.com page open since mid-morning when it was way over a hundred million dollars market cap. i just refreshed and it said 60 million!!

    Crashed? Each unity was worth less than U$D1 a few months ago. I’ve just checked the price and it’s around $17 in many markets. It oscilates strongly, of course, since it’s a small market very subject to temperamental behaviors. But I’d say it’s still in a strong rally, with strong ups and downs.

    #13911
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    unless he’s right about Nakamoto owning 25% of all the bitcoins.

    Satoshi certainly has a lot of coins, but 25% of all sunds way too much. But even if it was true, it wouldn’t be anything compared to what central banks can do to the monetary supply today.

    shredder7753 wrote:

    let me talk about the mining for a second, as that is one thing i might really disagree with. since when has a currency ever been produced like that. it seems like the most ass-e-nine way ever to produce money. a bunch of personal private computers spinning their wheels doing nothing constructive creates actual real currency? WTF?! thats a bunch of bullshit.

    It is not bullshit, it is necessary work. It is the only way currently known to have a database such as the transaction blockchain in a distributed network. And they are not really “generating coins”, they are generating the blocks of data that compose this distributed database, which contains every transaction done in bitcoins. As a reward for their work, they are granted new, previously inexistent coins. This inflation-reward is supposed to be replaced by transaction-fee-reward in the future, since the inflation rate will be halfed every ~4 years.

    If you have more doubts about mining and the block chain, you can find reading material in bitcoin wiki.

    #13912
    Avatar of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    Carl wrote:

    Similarly a plethora of other P2P cryptocurrencies can be created on the same market that Bitcoins use. The fact that these currencies will not actually be Bitcoins doesn’t seem to matter that much. When there are hundreds of currencies to choose from, and new ones can be created all the time, the scarcity of any single currency will be either very low or meningless.

    In the it boils down to the fact that it is only information, an information is not scarce.

    At least that is what I think. time will tell, I suppose.

    Sorry for not answering it before.

    As you can see, there are not lots of others P2P cryptocurrencies out there devaluing bitcoins yet. :) And, IMHO, what you predict cannot happen.

    Basically, if you invent a new p2p currency, it will fit one of these cases:

    • It’s inferior or roughly equivalent to bitcoins in its features. In this case, why would anyone care to switch from bitcoin, which already has some infrastructure, to your new project, which has no infrastructure at all? Why would people exchange their bitcoins for something inferior or equivalent? This would probably not have any meaninful effect in bitcoins value.
    • Your currency is better than bitcoin. In this case, congratulations! What will happen is that, with time, people will abandon bitcoin and switch to your solution. That won’t be the equivalent of hyperinflation, just a “transfer of value” from one thing to another.
    • You manage to find a niche where your currency is particularly better than bitcoins, but bitcoins keep being better in others. Your currency might end up filling this niche. That will be similar to the point above, only that in a smaller scale. But, again, that’s not the equivalent of hyperinflation since (1) one cannot find as much undersatisfied niches as one wants (so far, no such niche was found, AFAIK) and (2), in order to be taken seriosly, any niche specific currency will need controlled inflation as well, so all that would happen are partial value transfers from bitcoins to these niche-specific currencies, if they ever come to exist. That’s in a way comparable to gold and silver, they used to complement each other.

    I can’t see anything besides these 3 possibilities for new p2p currencies. As none of them is equivalent to hyperinflation, I don’t think we should fear such threat in what concerns p2p currencies.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 40 total)