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  • #20973
    Avatar of Luke
    Luke
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    @Ken Sims:

    But what gives YOU the right to dictate to the rest of us what kind of government we should want?
    It sounds to me kind you are setting yourself up as a ruler in that regard.

    I do not dictate. I am only pointing out two self-evident truths. Men desire freedom. The state is the opposite of freedom. You can argue all you want but in the end these two facts will stand. I didn’t tell you to take any action directly, did I?

    As for me “setting myself up as a ruler” I can only laugh. When people advocate anarchy, they simply want no rulers at all. It’s like you just said all atheists are trying to set themselves up as God.

    @Theodore Schultz:

    Nice list of references and examples, but it’ll take me a long time to read them all. I hope you’ll all excuse me if I keep reading and posting here well before I’m done?

    Of course. The fact that you express interest into reading them at all is awesome. Take your time.

    I have to wonder what Ayn Rand would have been like if she’d had and raised her own children.

    Honestly I don’t think as highly of Ayn Rand as most people would guess. Technically yes, I’m looking to build a Galt’s Gulch of sorts on the waves so she certainly gets props for the idea way back in her day, but in the end she got a lot of details wrong and didn’t really include the most important ingredient to making a Voluntary society work: The Non-Aggression Principle.

    Then she went and brought her personal beliefs on God into it and spoiled everything for her whole generation. Frankly I’m kind of mad at her for that.

    @OCEANOPOLIS:

    The “political dimension” of seasteading is irrelevent at this point,…simply because there is no seastead and there are no seasteaders. To talk about the role of a future “government” of non existing seasteading entities is just useless mental masturbation.

    If it is important to talk about the engineering of a seastead at this point, or the defense of a seastead at this point, or especially the purpose of a seastead at this point, one would necessarily need to speak of the government aboard their seastead at this point.

    The amount of freedom offered aboard a seastead is a Major selling point for it. Even Blueseeds’ stead, which basically runs under the same laws as the USA, has ca Core PURPOSE of allowing technical folks a way to get around US Laws. (Which we anarchists like to refer to as “Freedom.”)

    So clearly it depends on the seastead. I guess someone could build one just for Oceanographers with no purpose other than to get fish lovers closer to the deep-ocean fish, but most of us designing a seastead colony to appeal to a variety of people in different professions will likely need to consider the roles of government, law and order aboard their stead.

    Frankly I can’t think of a better use for a seastead than making mankind free. Can you? That will take government discussion right up front.

    #20969
    Avatar of Luke
    Luke
    Participant

    Well mostly that was aimed at Theodore Schultz above talking trash about Anarchy, but overall I don’t see anyone here defending a life on the sea without Rulers and it makes me cry a bit inside to see how misguided the whole thread is…

    Making a Seastead without attempting Anarchy onboard is one of the most colossal wastes imaginable, kind of like building the golden gate bridge without putting any kind of road across it.

    To those that feel that Anarchy always results in some sort of Chaos; I say to you that you are believing the government’s propaganda. Here is a list of actual examples of anarchy without chaos:

    List of Historical examples of Anarchy

    To those that have questions to how Anarchy can actually work, there are many books on the subject, this classic one is even free:

    David Friedman – The Machinery of Freedom PDF

    And so is this one:

    Stefan Molyneux – Practical Anarchy PDF

    -Which answers very specific questions like how to keep out external invaders and all kinds of dispute resolutions.

    Having no rulers (a.k.a Anarchy) is the freedom that all mankind will forever seek. You may not realize this yet if the states’ propaganda is heavy in your head, but future generations will look back upon our first seasteads’ makers and judge them for what their goals are.

    If you are trying to free mankind, then you’ll be thought of as a good person, probably a hero to humanity.

    If you are trying to make a buck, then you’re just a capitalist but no worse than bill gates or steve jobs.

    If you are however trying to make a new form of government that isn’t absolute anarchy, you’ll be judged as a misguided fool who wasted humanities’ precious time.

    I know which path I’m taking. Do you?

    #20966
    Avatar of Luke
    Luke
    Participant

    Hearing talk about a government, of any kind, in place on a seastead is akin to hearing talk about bringing a new human being in the world strictly to test out disease treatments on.

    You guys need to learn about Voluntarism in the worst kind of way.

    #20965
    Avatar of Luke
    Luke
    Participant

    Joep,

    I’d love to share your optimism in Thiel’s unwavering demand for truth and justice, but time after time throughout history we’ve seen people like this fold under pressure. Ron Paul may be a good example of this today.

    Can you share with us some of the examples of why Thiel can’t be changed by the dark side?

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