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  • #15210
    Avatar of Sickor
    Sickor
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    elspru wrote:

    Space Habitation implies inhabitants of space, as well as their habitats, and habits.

    While I agree that personal-attacks are typically irrelevant to a reply,

    one thing that frightened me, was that you’d perhaps without meaning to,

    banned a whole sector of discussion, thought, and information, namely star-beings.

    Yes, and I wouldn’t have minded if ken had wanted to move it over to that dreams fourm. Also you should ask the starter of the thread as to whether they believe it is “contaminated” and as to whether further action should be taken (locking).

    Ken wrote:

    So a new thread on spacesteading can be started, BUT until there is such undeniable proof of aliens within this solar system that major newspapers are running it as their headline,

    Ummm since Elspru has just proved that there are news papers with UFO, can we restart a new space steading fourm which covers all of the topics of space steading? Including intelligent life?

    elspru wrote:

    In terms of topics, I’d strongly advise, allowing star-beings, spirituality, and other topics, which while they may be unusual to you, are supported by forum members, who derive tangible benefit from sharing and using the information gained.

    Agreed, and I will also try to not make any comments without tangible evidence :)

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15195
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    I do have to admit ken bias has effected our ability speak freely at times, however I would not suggest booting or stripping of his moderator rights. I like him personally and has helped me solve many of my problems.

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15183
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    Dervogel707 wrote:

    Sickor violence is a part of life it is only natural to hate some or something and I may sound mean and evil but isnt evil and mean only a perspective? When your hungry you eat when your tired you sleep when your angry you…? We need protection dont think of weapons as violent killing evil things think of them as something to be used as protection. Everyone hears deathstar and thinks of Star Wars and they think of the sith’s purpose for the Deathstar. I think this will be more used as a space station but a laser that can destroy a whole planet wont either.

    Imagine if luke had the deathstar. Those are my hopes for us.

    I don’t think it is worth the vast amount of metal we would need, plus what happens if it falls into the wrong hands? And violence isn’t a part of life, we become violent because of how we are raised in our envirmoent, we are raised to believe that war is a neccessary evil, but yet this is not so. It is all about where and how you were brought up. Now unfortunately do we need to defend uor selves? Yes but do we need to waste the resources on something that can destroy an entire planet? I don’t think so, its one thing for self defense but if th emilitaries on the planet all turned against us, and that is maybe a couple million people, are you going to blow up the entire planet and all the billions of innocent civilians? Doesn’t make sense to me…

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15188
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    Actually on the other hand, if we were to live on the death star, then I can see more use for it….something to think about.

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15184
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    elspru wrote:

    Dervogel707 wrote:

    emmettvm wrote:

    sigh

    Its a very real possibility and we have the technology thats why money sucks. Money is stoping us humans from advancing thats why need to get rid of it imagine having a deathstar up in our sky. This would make for a very good space station too.

    [/quote]

    Ya, they are called E-class asteroids (shiny metallic asteroids) i.e. spaceships.

    One of the largest is Comet-Elenin, recently visisted by Navy Space Command,

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27753-In-The-US-Navy-Space-Command-And-I-Have-Been-To-Elenin&p=283394#post283394

    While they say it should be fine, it did cause a massive storm larger than the planet earth on saturn:

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    [/quote]

    Elspru, I can’t thank you enough for sharing this! I always knew the military had more to do with space tahn NASA did.

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15170
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    HopDavid wrote:

    Seasteading is much more doable than spacesteading. Therefore I thought this forum’s participants would tend to be more practical than what I’ve seen at space forums.

    I am disappointed with the signal to noise ratio here.

    Of course it is, now would I reccomend builign a death star? No absolutly not, I tend to steer away from violence. But yes we should fin much less costly ways to live in space, and when i say costly i mean in the sense of how many resources we need, not money.

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authori

    #15168
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    emmettvm wrote:

    sigh

    this is completely possible if thats what your sigh is referring to. We have all the tech and the resources, its just a matter of beating big money and actually doing it.

    #15167
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    dervogel1707 wrote:

    money sucks. Money is stoping us humans from advancing

    Thats 100 % correct, its sad really.

    #15133
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    i_j_smith wrote:

    Until renewable energy systems are able to compete on a level playing field they will never be price competitive with fossil fuels.

    Just another reason to remove this faulty monetary system, in a good system clean renewable energy would tower above all else.

    #15098
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    Ken wrote:

    While I personally wouldn’t want to be part of the Venus Project

    May I ask why not? Just curious…

    #15093
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    HopDavid wrote:

    So why did we send the Apollo astronauts to the moon?

    We sent them for politcal reasons! Remeber the whole space race thing? It was all to show that America was superior to the Soviet Union! Especially since they were the “”bad guys” at the time. It was all international relations and politics. ANd money at the root of it of course. Not to mention it got NASA a whole lot of funding, remeber the soviets were supposedly using space satelites to “spy” on us, thats what launched this entire thing, the cold war and all.

    HopDavid wrote:

    What rich guy? Obama’s vague goal of going to an asteroid in his lifetime would be funded by taxpayers.

    Hop, do you know that almost every cent of our income tax goes to paying our debts? Not to funding any sort of programs! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytg9RXSil0Q and http://www.devvy.com/notax.html

    Nothing major happens without the rich guy’s ok. ANd when I say rich guy I mean the corporations and the families that have been here since year 1, like the rockefellers and JP Morgan etc. They make sure all of these programs get funded because they get something out of them. in reality we have an invisible government that runs our government. You want proof?, watch the zeitgeist movies.

    What they get out of them, I don’t know. But it is all in the name of business and that is for sure.

    So would the tax payers be funding it partly? yes

    but this is all off topic of space steading. I really like the idea but the current monetary system is holding us back!

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as the aut

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authori

    #15078
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    emmettvm wrote:

    Ah, there’s that smug quote again, spoken like a true fake stoic, imagining that to merely quote simplistic rhetoric makes one appear wise, and secretly hoping it digs at the other.

    i’m not trying to make myself look smart, it is just that that is my favorite quote. And excuse my language but you acting like a smart ass makes you look like more of a moron because you based your statement off of your own opinion with no ryhme or reason to back it up. So get over yourself.

    You misunderstood what I had written. I was not very clear. I specifically said that to have a nation without money you would first need a nation without people. My implication was not that you would actually literally need a nation without people. Rather, I was making an allusion towards the fact that money and people are inseperable. Money is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE than a medium of exchange of value. It has no value whatsoever in and of itself. Thinking otherwise is not a countering opinion, it is a falsehood – purely wrong.

    Any society of people will have within it items of varying value, from food to shelter to clothing to whatever else. As money, again is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE than a medium of exchange for value, money will always exist where there are people. If you do not understand this, you do not understand money, value, mediums of exchange, or something else integral to this discussion.

    Ok, yes your right it is just a medium of exchange but I misunderstood nothing, what you have written is that no matter what humans must have a medium of exchange, what about the bartering system? That was used up until the formation of this stupid monetary system. If you read the venus project proposes that there will be no need for a medium of exchange because the machines will provide us with everything needed.

    “If you do not understand this, you do not understand money, value, mediums of exchange, or something else integral to this discussion.” Well your entire idea that humans need a medium of exchange is completely false thus this statement is as well.

    NOTHING is without cost. Even food gathered from nature requires labor to be brought to the consumer. That labor is the cost, and it has it’s value. Denying the person who gathers such food the equivalent value of their labor in return for their work has a name. It is called “slavery.” If you do NOT deny them the value of their labor, but grant them the equivalent value of their labor in any manner at all, whether it be providing them with clothes or what-not, something they were not producing themselves, this is still an exchange of value, and is therefore NO DIFFERENT AT ALL than if you paid them for their labor and allowed them to buy the clothes or what-not. The only thing that is different is what you are using as a medium for the exchange of said value.

    If you cannot understand this, then you need to study economics. If you think this is wrong, then you have a faulty understanding of economics, labor, cost, mediums of exchange, or something else integral to this discussion.

    OK yes labor is form a value, I never questioned that. But it won’t matter if all we have to do is go to the store to get clothes! Human labor is no longer needed and outdated, that is the entire point of the venus project and I don’t think you understand that. If the machines do everything then man is not doing any labor so there is no need for value, read up on the venus project and its ideas and then come and right because you clearly do not understand the fundamentals of the venus project. If we give them clothers, they did nothing to get them so there is no labor or exchange of value except the machine giving the person the clothes!

    Now sure it comes out in taxes but that is the downfall of the monetary system! There is no need for people to have to “buy” things.

    [qoute]

    sigh. value is a attribute assigned by humanity to an object or action. a rose has no value as a decoration if there is no person to want to buy it (and no, that the flower has pollin that a bee can collect does not give it value outside of humanity. thats not what is meant by value in economics). it is human nature to assign value to all of the objects and actions with which we interact. We view some things as better than other things. we view some things as more necessary than other things. to exchange any objects or actions between people, which by human nature those people have assigned values, there must be a standard for exchanging the objects or actions – all parties involved must agree upon a value for each object or action before they can exchange them. person a would not want to exchange building a house for person b in return for person b giving them a single apple. Thus, as standards of value are agreed upon by groups of people, even if they are merely exchanging them directly they are still giving something of value in return for something else of value. Even if person a builds the house for person b and gets nothing in return from person b, assuming that the action was voluntary by person a and not coerced or forced (theres that slavery again) they are still getting something equal in value, whether it be their satisfaction at helping person b, or whatever. Thus, even if nothing is exchanged, the action/object is still “paid” for with equal value.

    Even in a society where they dont even use rocks for money, things are still bought and sold. So how can you ever say there is no need to “buy” things?

    [/quote]

    ” So how can you ever say there is no need to “buy” things?” I will say this one last time READ THE FUNDAMENTAL PARTS OF THE VENUS PROJECT AND YOU COULD ANSWER THIS QUESTION YOURSELF!!!!

    No one =needs to own anything really, if there is no monetary system there is not buying or selling. All there is is giving. Everything is made available to everyone so they can enjoy it. There will no longer be a value on things!

    I’m not going to explain anyfurther until you have told me that you read a decent about about the venus projects ideas.

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authori

    #15077
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    Shouri wrote:

    What gives the computer to track my goods, transportation etc? What stops me from destroying the infrastructure which computer uses to track my transportation, trade etc. for the sake of personal freedom? Ofcourse there are laws, no society can exist without a governmental body, be it society itself or a dictator, even matter itself, our reality(or should i say actuality) is bound by rules, the more complicated a network gets more rules are necessary, it is common sense and yet liberterian and anarchist people find this as hipocrisy :S Our body works with its laws, a software is written with laws and works with it’s own laws, society is no different nothing is different something trying to try different will become nothing…

    OK, first of all, it is not tracking as in watching you, what I mean to say is that the computer runs everything….now i’m not sure what you mean but if what your saying is that you would rather have a human do it just because you don’t want “big brother watching you” or something to that effect than all I can say is suck it up and get over yourself.

    Second, if you had a system that provides everything you need (like the one the venus project has proposed) than why would you want to destroy it? People only do these things today because of poverty, which is the fault of the monetary system. And no you don’t need to have laws, laws are just an attempt to control people, and laws are constantly broken! It is like telling a kid, there is something special in this box, but don’t open it…what do you think he is gonna do? he is gonna open it! You know i’m starting to find myself more liberatarian every day, because I too was brainwashed by the propaganda put out today. If everyone is reasonably happy and has everything they need (meaning no poverty) than why would they want to steal, or kill, getting rid of laws and money eliminates 99% of crime right there, sure there will be people who will kill but it is much less so, and I think if a guy went around killiing or causing problems each city would find a way to take care of it. Laws are guidlines baiscally.

    “society is no different nothing is different something trying to try different will become nothing” that is based off of your illogical assumptions and nothing more show me some proff and we will talk.

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    #15070
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    elspru wrote:

    Oh ya, the Venus Project’s government is a computer, you might be happy to know that I’m working on making such government software, and am avidly supporting it’s creation at the canadian pirate-party forums, perhaps I’ll also mention some of it at the Zeitgeist forums or something.

    Anyhow, I’ve somewhat mentioned it before but when Al Bielek went to the future, where he was living on an air-stead, the main city computer had a crystal body, and it was called the Lama, much like a buddhist Lama. The computer programmers actually was a special race of people, bred from a variety of master programmers, and people with genetic traits deemed favourable, I’m hoping on contributing or perhaps even founding such and such.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    Elspru, I think you may be confused

    In the Venus Project does not govern humans, because there are no laws. THe computer keeps track of resources, items, produces goods, transportation, all the neccessities of life. etc. But it does not make any laws, just wanted to clear that up incase of confusion.

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authori

    #15066
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    HopDavid wrote:

    I’m supposed to take everything that rolls off your keyboard as the undisputed truth?

    Sorry. No can do.

    Fair enough.

    HopDavid wrote:

    Public policy isn’t always sensible.

    While this is true many times, I have disagree with you on this senario. Mainly because it costs wayyyy to much money to just go to an asteroid for shits and giggles, and to put a flag and say we did it. My guess is that we are getting something out of it, and I think many other people realized the same thing, and thought mining. SO what ever rich guy thought about funding it knows that there has to be something he would get out of it.

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    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as the aut

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