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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 159 total)
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    Profile photo of Patri

    Unfortunately, far from free, due to taxes and fees and maintenance.

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    There is a serious danger that global warming will cause the northwest passage to open up, which makes the polar route a shorter distance for goods to move from China to Europe. This will cost Panama a lot of canal revenue.

    In general, Panama is quite nice in many ways. I found it to be very modern for a Latin American country. It is quite popular for expats, though not as popular as Costa Rica. It is the banking center for Latin America.

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    There are some big advantages/disadvantages of this as a base.

    Advantages: we can buy all the infrastructure (water, power, etc.) in one package. Cruise ships are cheap b/c of global recession. We can actually live on the water and travel the world.

    Disadvantage: high operational costs. not a lot of space to spread out / experiment. Difficult to build experimental seasteads on a ship, easier from land.

    I’d like to see both ventures happen. For those who are interested in the cruise ship idea, sign up for the announcement list to stay updated on progress as TSI works on this approach.

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    Eelco wrote:

    I just started a wiki on the design ive been talking about. Its not quite doing it justice yet, but making everything presentable is a time-consuming process.

    For what its worth:


    For the pitching motions, we’ve talked about giant heave plates – vertical planes, which resist any pitching motions. Pitch is the main issue with single spars, according to our very brief wave tests with Wayne’s foam pool noodle models. They bob and pitch like crazy.

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    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    I think what Lasse is talking about is something along the lines of a “Baystead” which will stay in a single location and not have the capability of dealing with large waves. These designs will not operate in international waters and while they are a good step toward seasteading, are not “seasteads” by Patri’s definition.

    I see, this does clear up the confusion. You were thinking of building seasteads that could handle anything, while Lasse is thinking of starting with smaller seasteads for smaller waves.

    Personally, I favor Lasse’s approach, as it is more incremental. Dealing with waves is one of the greatest challenges of seasteading. If we can find a location for a permanent, independent seastead which has less waves, and is economically viable, that makes seasteading much easier. So building seasteads that can’t go everywhere in the ocean might be a much easier route and a more clever strategy than trying to build deep-ocean seasteads right off the bat.

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    Imagine – already on there.
    Gallows Pole – downloading
    Come Sail Away – downloading
    Jimmy Buffet – 5 songs on the list already, including Pirate Looks at 40 :).

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    If you are doing a truly portable business, then someplace expensive like the Cayman Islands doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If you are going to work locally, then the higher local wages make up for the higher real estate costs, to some degree. But if you are going to work remotely, why not live where your money goes the farthest?

    There is not one single method for basesteading, but there is a limited supply of people interested in it. It would be nice to start basesteads all over the world, but I don’t think it is going to happen.

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    This is an interesting idea, but doesn’t it somewhat conflict with your point elsewhere about repairs at sea taking 3-4x longer? That is, won’t it be much easier to build seasteads from a base on land?

    We have the freedom to live on it and conduct scientific experiments w/alternative energies

    I’m not so sure about this. The US regulates scientific research and resource extraction, including alt. energy, throughout the EEZ. You can do it, but its regulated and you need permission.

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    Pastor Jason wants the wave height vs. Belize discussion from here moved to this thread, and I still don’t understand his response to Lasse, so I will ask my question here. He wrote:

    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    Lasse, you are right about wave height being a HUGE factor in seastead design. Seasteads I imagine will need to be able to deal with very large waves as they will travel the globe. This is a factor for seastead design. This question has NOTHING to do with where a group of ‘steaders settle to work on seasteading designs and technology. Either way, the point is moot. Belize has one of the largest barrier reefs in the world sheltering her waters. Wave height rarely rises above 1 meter and is often at half that height. …

    So to summarize: Wave height is a factor for seastead design and has nothing to do with the location of a seastead outpost. Even if this factor was determined to be an important one, Belize has low waves (especially where we’re looking) so the point is moot either way

    To translate this into a general claim, this is basically saying that the target operational location of a seastead has nothing at all do with where you construct the seastead. This makes no sense to me at all. I mean, you can research a seastead wherever you want, you can research the infrastructure wherever you want. But once you build a seastead, you need to get it to the operational location. Waves aside, the further you are from that location, the harder it will be.

    And taking waves into account, it is an even bigger problem. If you build a seastead for 5m waves in the Baltic, and you build it near the Baltic, no problem to bring it to the final location. If you build it in the Caribbean, how do you get it to the Baltic? You either have to pay a lot of money to a shipper, or you have to take it all the way across the Atlantic…and its big waves.

    Having reef-sheltered waters doesn’t help this problem at all.

    If you build in Belize, you are going to build Caribbean seasteads. The Caribbean is a nice place, and this isn’t necessarily a bad idea, but it is absurd to think that construction location is unrelated to operational location.

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    Maybe once we put together a big playlist, we can put it up as a torrent.

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    I came to this forum to post about seasteading music, what a coincidence!

    Here is my seasteading playlist. I’m interested in suggestions for songs to add:

    Name Artist
    A_Satisfied_Mind Johnny Cash
    America, Fuck Yeah Team America: World Police – Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
    Baby, I’m An Anarchist Against Me!
    Barrett’s Privateers(09-09-99) Signal Hill
    Because I Got High Afroman
    The Black Pearl Klaus Badelt
    Brandy (You’re A Fine Girl) Looking Glass
    Caribbean Queen Billy Ocean
    Castles in the Sky (Peter Luts Ian Van Dahl
    Changes In Attitude, Changes In Latitude Jimmy Buffet
    The Coalition to Ban Coalitions Hank Williams, Jr.
    Copperhead Road Steve Earle
    Dead Horse Robin Holcomb
    Demand, Supply Rhythm, Rhyme, Results
    Do What I Like 2 Unlimited
    Don’t Download This Song Weird Al Yankovic
    Dont Tread On Me Metallica
    The Downeaster “Alexa” Billy Joel
    The Downeaster Alexa Christina (covering Billy Joel)
    Drug Dealing Corporate Avenger
    Everybody Wants To Rule The World Tears For Fears
    Fathom The Bowl John C. Reilly
    fbi file Corporate Avenger
    FCC Song (Fuck you very much) Eric Idle
    Fight for Your Right The Beastie Boys
    Floating City Y Kant Tori Read
    Freedom Rage Against The Machine
    Freedom Of Speech Above The Law
    Fuck the MPAA Futuristic Sex Robotz
    Hard Currency Information Society
    Haul Away Joe Mark Anthony Thompson
    He’s a Pirate Klaus Badelt
    High All the Time 50 Cent
    I’m No Angel Dido
    Ice T / Freedom of Speech Body Count
    Imagine John Lennon
    It’s My Life The Animals
    It’s My Own Business Chuck Berry
    Long Haired Country Boy Charlie Daniels
    Lovely on the Water Steeleye Span
    The Mary Ellen Carter Makem & Clancy
    Material Girl Madonna
    Moonlight Serenade Klaus Badelt
    The Moonshiner The Clancy Brothers
    Mountain Kind MC Frontalot
    Move Out / CP Drill KKL Information Society
    My Life Billy Joel
    My Life Dido
    My Son John John C. Reilly
    One Day I’ll Fly Away Nicole Kidman
    One Last Shot Klaus Badelt
    Only the Good Die Young Billy Joel
    Pirate Jenny Marianne Faithfull
    A Pirate Looks At 40 Jimmy Buffett
    Respect Aretha Franklin
    Rime Of The Ancient Mariner Iron Maiden
    Rob The Prez-O-Dent That Handsome Devil
    Sixteen tons BURDON Eric
    Skullcrusher Mountain Jonathan Coulton
    Smoke On The Water Deep Purple
    Smugglers Blues (Live 1989) Glen Frey f. Don Henley
    Son Of A Son Of A Sailor Jimmy Buffett
    Stars on the Water Jimmy Buffett
    Take The Power Back Rage Against The Machine
    Taxes Are Stealing Corporate Avenger
    Taxman The Beatles
    Under the Sea Disney
    Voting Doesn’t Work Corporate Avenger
    War Is Good Corporate Avenger
    Watching The Water Pretty and Twisted
    Weigh Hey and Up She Rises Irish Rovers
    What’s Mine Is Mine 2 Unlimited
    Where Would I Be Without IBM Information Society
    Whiskey The Jolly Rogers
    Will and Elizabeth Klaus Badelt
    Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum Jimmy Buffett
    Yo Ho Yo Ho A Pirate’s Life for Me Disney

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    definitely email Walt.

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    I think countries and sites should be evaluated separately. First pick the country, then the property. After all, there are lots of country-level factors (business friendliness, cost of living, location, waves). Your sample property listing doesn’t include any country-level factors, yet those are important and there is still debate about what the best country is.

    At least, that’s my perspective – you’re welcome to run things how you want :).

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    I agree that humans have many shortcomings, and that a good government will handle these better that current governments. I don’t think it is straightforward to incorporate human nature into government, but an experimental ecosystem like seasteading will surely do a better job than the current system.

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    I believe I mention in the book that there are 2 main areas where seasteads have a competitive advantage:

    1) The ocean
    2) Low regulation

    They are fairly different. I think (1) tends to have higher capital costs.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 159 total)

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