Forum Replies Created
February 26, 2014 at 11:13 pm #22982
What do you mean “socially unacceptable”?? Regardless, while I think that your “incubator” is a good idea, the MMK is my main project. But I am not pushing it, for now. If it will happen with partners, it’s be OK by me. If not, I’ll just build it for myself.
You can only lead them to the water, but you can’t make them drink.February 26, 2014 at 9:40 pm #22980
I see. That sounds like a good idea if you can find a benefactor.February 26, 2014 at 6:56 pm #22978
Why would you want somebody else to finance a seastead, other than the people who will use it?February 19, 2014 at 12:06 am #22930
Guys, on a dirt cheap budget, of course is going to be The MMK!!
Seriously now, ellmer’s question is quite complex. First, what is a “low budget”? $50k, $100k, $1 Mil or $5 Mil? Who is to judge what is a “low budget”, the billionaire or the layman? Example. For the MMK, we need at least $65-$70k, and that only if I’ll do most of the work myself, if I’ll get some help in terms of logistics and other labor from the partners, and if I hire only cheap labor for outside help. We are talking buying a used houseboat, building 3 ferro floats, 2 x 30′x 9′, 1 triangular 25′x 15′, and few water toys,…Really small project on the seasteading scale. If I would hire a marine engineering & construction company, just to built the floats would cost me around $80k, at the lower end. So I guess that a single person (if it knows how) can start building on such low budget. The question is why? Why would a single person want to do all that? I mean, I asked myself few times if I would do it “just for the heck of it” and I won’t. First, it’s a lot of work… Second, what would I achieve? Become the “lone seasteader” and give myself high fives in the mirror every morning for being the only inhabitant on my “glorious” MMK? For that money and effort I can buy a heck of sailboat, sail to Bora Bora and have a blast there while waiting to die in paradise.
On the other hand, I think it is possible to start small and end up with a big seastead. As I said, I’m not into “solo seasteading”, but if I’d be, I would build the MMK as a business and run it efficiently as a “boat and breakfast”. Reinvest all the profits plus few loans in a second, third, forth, 20th, 30th, all in nice locations around coral reefs in the Florida Keys, Belize, South Pacific, Maldive, etc. Sell the MMK “chain” 15 years down the road for millions, and now start building Big Fat “MMKs on steroids” @ 800′ LOA, offshore capable and modular capable. Repeat the previous scenario on this big scale, keep on building 800′ LOA modules, but now raft them up together instead of having them scattered all around the world. 25 years from now I could end up with the biggest floating structure that man has ever built.
Or not,…I could die in my sleep from a hard attack next Monday. Which would have been the perfect reason for starting seasteading 10 years ago
BUT, is building such a huge seasteading business REALLY seasteading? After all it won’t be a “state” or a “country”. In reality it would all be mine, my property, my seastead. It will be a kingdom and I will be an absolute ruler
So much for seasteading.
When you build a new vessel, if it is for business, the CG has to inspect the construction process while you are doing it in order for you to be able to register the vessel (with the state or documented) and use it for business purposes. Personally, I think it’s a good thing because they set certain standards of safety. Without it, any Joe would build a shity boat, get it licensed for business and start ferrying hundreds of people left and right. And hundreds of people will die. India is a sad example of such unregulated practices,…
You can actually “grow” a seastead with biorock (seacrete). If I am not mistaken, the first picture ellmer posted above is of a such structure (a biorock island) proposed by the late Prof.Wolf Hilbertz in the ’70s, a pioneer in the field.February 16, 2014 at 8:20 pm #22919
Don’t get me wrong, I do use paper charts and I really like to work with them. It’s just nowadays the new electronic charts are so cool,…everything is integrated on one screen, with radar, live weather maps, 3D forward looking sonar, 3D charting options, wind, speed, current, GPS integrated self-steering, engine sensors (temp, oil pressure, etc), high water bilge alarms,…I can go on and on,…it’s just so easy and handy to navigate today.
But I totally agree with you: when you lose power, all you have is a good old paper chart and you’d better know dead reckoning, because otherwise you will be in a lot of trouble.February 16, 2014 at 7:48 pm #22918
The ship was captured inside the EEZ of the Russian federation, not in the international waters.
They were climbing aboard that platform and they were told not to. Water cannons were used and warning shots were fired in the air. And after that they got arrested. Dahh…how dumb can you be?? Why don’t you go and climb a BP oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico so you can test the “western democratic” response to that? At least the Russian let them go. In US, you will be prosecuted and you will do time.
I’m not a libertarian. Therefore I am a true libertarian.
A business will be registered with the Seastead and it will pay taxes to the Seasted. What are you thinking? That the Seastead will just let anybody do whatever they want or make money on the Seastead without the Seastead getting a cut out of it? We might start as a non profit but 1000 nm out there are no free rides.
You don’t know who I am, what I have or who my associates are. I do have a place for discussions on the website and it’s password protected. Everything will be built and operated as planned, and you are damn right for a change: all according to a wild, progressive and visionary imagination.February 16, 2014 at 6:38 pm #22916
It all depends of which US state you are talking about getting a slip in. In California, back in ’90 -’99 they wanted you to carry $300,000 liability insurance on your boat to get a slip, plus you would pay an extra $125-$225 per boat/mo if you live aboard (on top of your regular $10-$15/ft/mo for the slip fees). Soooo, the liveaboards would just tell those marinas to go and f___ themselves and they moved to the cheaper marinas down the road, where you would “grease” that marina manager, and you would get a slip for $270/mo, electric and cable included, swimming pool privileges and a free parking spot for your car. Free market economy at its best, I guess…
Down here in Florida, you can get a slip now for around $10-$12/ft/mo and nobody will give a shit if you have insurance or not. (they’ll just be happy to get your money, that’s how “good” the economy is here in Florida,…) Boat insurance is not mandatory here. On the other hand, why pay slip fees? You can anchor for free from here all the way down to Key West and just get a dinghy to get on land.
I don’t know who’s writing this BS about insurance and etc. Bunch of morons who have no clue about boating down here.
The bottom line is this: get a boat, find a nice anchorage on the Intracoastal Waterways or down in the Keys, drop the hook, keep a low profile in terms of using drugs and booze, don’t fuck with the local law enforcement and (most important) the Coast Guard, and you’ll live aboard for free, happily ever after.
What do you mean “prepared to meet regulations” for TX, AL, etc…What regulations? You just hop aboard, cross the Gulf and go to Texas, or Alabama or New Orleans, or wherever you want to go. If you want to go north in the spring, just go. There are no regulations for a US documented or any US state registered boat to sail anywhere in or around the US or anywhere around the world.
Why would you want to drop anchor “few miles away”? I mean yes, if you really feel like being out there,…But on the west coast, in the Gulf, it’s still 20′-30′ shallow few miles away…Just drop 50 yards from shore so it’s a short dinghy ride,…:)
What verification of charts are you talking about? Never heard of it. I use a GPS chart plotter and have old paper charts for backup. (in case they ask) Who said you have to wear a life vest all the time? I’ve never wear one unless it was blowing 40 kt and I HAD to go on the bow. Yes, you have to have them aboard and that’s a good requirement.February 16, 2014 at 7:44 am #22911
First of all, in regards to Greenpeace, those idiots should consider themselves VERY lucky to be alive. They where operating in the Russian territorial water under a Dutch flag and they climbed aboard The Prirazlomnaya platform which is a stationary unit that is attached to the sea floor inside the EEZ of the Russian Federation and owned by Gazprom.
That’s piracy, plain and simple and the Russians actually showed A LOT of restraint. If they would have tried to board a seastead, they would have been given one warning and then shot at if they wouldn’t have backed down. End of story. Get your facts right regarding maritime law.
Of course we’ll do salvage and aquaculture on a seastead “as much as we want”. Your are saying it with and attitude of a wannabe qualified authority on what kind of businesses should be done or not on a seastead. If you have operated a seastead before, let us know man, share your experiences with us, don’t hold out.
Please stop quoting your aberration about a seastead not being “tolerated” or being shot down by “them”. These are segments of your imaginations, not facts.
Also, your are saying again that seasteading isn’t possible. “Yet the goal of TSI is enabling everyone to create countries. It’s just not viable long-term.” With friends like you, who needs enemies?February 15, 2014 at 8:32 pm #22907
The situation will change only if whoever wants to change it will do so.
All the islands, islets, rocks are claimed, man. All ships are registered under a flag. We talked about it, too. It is possible but it will cost tenth of millions to buy an island and sovereignty attached to it. If you have that kind of cash, just do it.
It will cost under $100k to build a small floating islet, start immediately and grow from there.
You are just assuming that the “more high-profile things you do, the more invasive the interference will be. It starts with spying, it ends with force.” Thinks don’t work like that at sea. How long have you been @ sea? If your “high profile” is terrorism and piracy of course you’ll get fucked up fast. If your “high profile” is marine environment research, responsible fishing, tourism on your seastead, salvage work, aquaculture, alternative energy production & research, etc, than we’ll make partners, not enemies.
How do you know how heavy your seasteading venture will be interfered until international sovereignty recognition? That’s another personal assumption of yours based on a limited understanding of maritime law and life on the high seas. In reality, floating 1000 nm offshore you might see a mast on the horizon once a month. Out of those, 80% will be merchant ships steaming to their destination which won’t give a shit about you showing as a blip on their radar screens, 15% sailboat cruisers which will be your best customers and 5% man of wars undergoing some naval exercise or chasing drug runners or pirates that might as well ignore you. What do you think they gonna do,…stop by and ask for id and insurance like an LA cop that can’t wait to piss on you rights? It doesn’t work like that out there man…But assuming they’ll stop by, they’ll most likely ask you to identify yourself and you’ll just do that, as “your seastead name” and “independent oceanic territory free floating on the high seas flying our own flag” and that might be about it, they’ll be under way and you’ll be under way. Do you really think that any captain in the right mind would actually care which flag your flying or that he will waste his time with 100 people who are playing seasteading 1000 nm offshore?February 15, 2014 at 5:19 pm #22905
In the context of “offshoring”, there is no doubt in my mind that seasteading will offer the highest degree of “non-interference” (meaning, as ellmer put it, “not meddle with people’s private business”). Sovereignty of a seastead will be GAINED WHILE seasteading, and IS NOT A PREREQUISITE for seasteading.
You don’t need “sovereignty” to build your own seastead in a cheap boatyard in Guatemala. All you need is money. You don’t need “sovereignty” to gather a crew of like minded individuals who are willing to live, work and self-govern themselves aboard that seastead. All you need is few determined people with balls and cash. If you have that, you have self-determined your right to “sovereignty”, and nobody can take that away from you, no matter what.
That’s why if you are saying that “non-interference” without sovereignty (implied as a prerequisite) is just saying that seasteading is not possible.
All this “with or without sovereignty” debate is just a waist of ink and paper to me. And who gives a rats ass that some government agency (any government) will spy on you? I’ll bet you anything that TSI was (and it is) “under scrutiny” from day one… specially when a heavy hitter like Thiel is footing the bill… Get real, get used to it, say “cheese” for the photo in your “private NSA album” with your name on it and carry on…
Seasteading on an islands or ships is not technically “seasteading” because it’s not “outside the territory claimed by the government of any standing nation”. My firm belief is that when it comes to achieving seasteading goals, “I’d rather ask forgiveness than permission” and all my seasteading plans will “roll like that”, with people who “roll like that”. If you think otherwise, it’s your prerogative and you should seastead accordingly, with “your” people and good luck with that.
If you put your mind to it, everything is possible on this Earth.February 15, 2014 at 1:45 pm #22903
If you firmly believe that seasteading “is not possible on Earth”, why are you here? Most of us here believe the contrary and we stick to that ideal and to each other. If your idea of “Country Creation” is to buy an island and sovereignty attached to it, why are you here? We want to built a floating city or island here not to buy a piece of land.
Since there is no obvious reason for you to be here, but you still are, than there must be a reason for that too. Please enlighten us, so we can understand your intentions here, cause so far your contribution to seasteading is zero.February 15, 2014 at 8:47 am #22901
Well said, ellmer.February 13, 2014 at 11:23 pm #22897
How big is that sailboat of yours?February 12, 2014 at 5:49 pm #22883
What on Earth are you trying to built that requires such in depth knowledge of that wave force if I might ask….February 12, 2014 at 4:44 pm #22881
I don’t think there is a formula here,… like this 20 ft wave in 60 kt of wind is X lbs/square foot…If it broke the pole, the wave was too strong and the pole too weak. A tanker’s hull thickness is usually 3 cm of steel and an extreme wave could cut through it like butter. Now, a pole might fair better, since it will cut the wave. For a flat surface (like the topsides of a hull) it’s a different story.