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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 1,177 total)
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  • #23933
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You lost me, man,…been drinking margaritas all day. What’s your excuse?

    So, you are saying that the Kardashians are worth more than the workers who are making seasteading happening toward “promoting the social acceptance of permanent offshore inhabitance”? Really??

    The “movie star, singer, succesful business-person or other influential celebrity” will have a better understanding of seasteading “due to their healthier and more fruitful, satisfying lifestyles”? Really?? All those fucked up junkies are seasteading role models now??

    What makes 10,000 high paid “rig operators” low class? Are 10,000 high paid lawyers, managers, engineers, etc. “low class” too or a “better” class?

    I have no clue what you’re talking about, dude.

    #23929
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    As with anything else in life, the whole idea of “seasteading” is a matter of personal opinion. Therefore, different views of how to make it a reality.

    I equate “seasteading” to “ocean habitation” and I define ocean habitation as:

    ““The process of developing highly self-sufficient and environmentally conscious human habitats built as mobile artificial floating islands that will navigate the world’s oceans as permanent independent oceanic territories.”

    One of the key word here is MOBILE. The global economy is mainly based on exploiting natural resources with “satellite” related service industries (like it or not, such is the nature of the beast). So, seasteading will have to tap into the ocean resources and related services in order to make ends meet. Therefore, mobility is paramount in order to explore, locate, extract and repeat the process in different locations around the worlds oceans.

    Ekofisk is there because oil is there. When oil will dry up, Ekofisk will have scrap metal value since a scenario along the Frying Pan Tower line of business is highly unlikely due to its location in the middle of the North Sea.

    What’s the “transition” here? From oil rig to rust bucket?

    Also a matter of opinion and based on how the term “seasteading” is defined is the process of “getting there”.

    If “The ultimate goal of seasteading is to get a foothold on the 99% of the planetary space that is liquid” as “the dawn of a future mega-business”, basically “ocean colonization” now, than corporate owned seems inevitable. If “ocean habitation”, than private small businesses owned seems more likely.

    In this world there is Wall Mart and “Joe’s Retail”. They coexist by both exploiting each other shortcomings and both bark at each other for a chunk of the bone.

    Only time will tell which one will get to the “seasteading bone” first.

    #23924
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    The MMK name is no longer in use :) Similar project but with another “key” name (for better marketing purposes).

    There will be no building right away but we’ll start up by purchasing and operating a houseboat according to plan in order to soft test the market. If positive results, we’ll add floats around the houseboat to form an atoll shape floating structure.

    #23920
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Oh, I didn’t know there are several. I thought that we were talking about the Diamond Shoals one, and that about it.

    Anyway, there are BIG, BIG MONEY to be made off seasteading. Worth $ millions just in fishing alone!

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fisheries-worth-246b-worldwide-1.962663

    #23918
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Ty, JW. You’re definitely invited (and you’ll get a discount) :)

    Shreddy, maybe I spoke too soon (and too harsh) of the Frying Pan Tower,…It was because the last time I checked on it, the structure was missing one of the cross section support beams and overall, it was in need of help. I didn’t know that they did so much work around it. I do salute any seasteading oriented start up and I do wish them the best of luck!

    Your support is welcomed, and as I said, I’ll keep you posted.

    On a general note, I regard the “profit making” part of any seasteading start up as an opportunity for such venture to grow as self sufficient as possible and to built a community that will get enriched financially and spiritually while involved in making it happen. Just making money for the sake of just getting rich is not my motivation here. I do operate in a different dimension.

    I am very seriously committed to start in the beginning of 2015.

    #23913
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You guys are killing me,…:) OK, if you insist with big budget projects, here’s my 2 cents.

    JW,

    Your concept has merits, in terms of being a unique floating apartment complex start up. BUT, I think it will cost much more than $250k for a 60′ x 60′ unit. Your construction will be supervised by the Coast Guard, because it will be considered a “new boat construction”. Everything will have to be done according to CG standards, sine you’ll be commercial. Therefore, you will have to hire marine specialized builders. You will need marine grade sanitation units, big holding tanks, generators, fuel tanks for fuel, AC units, water tanks, water systems, etc, etc. All of the above don’t come cheap AT ALL. When you’ll add up materials + labor, you will be in for a half a million dollar surprise. Also, on top of that, the HOA per unit will be VERY high since you will have to provide a 24 hours ferry service: boat+captains+mates+fuel+maintenance. The further from shore you are the more expensive will get. Unless, of course everybody should get a small 10 ft. dinghy with an outboard and pay for their own transportation.

    It will take you at least one year after financing to get this thing going + the effort.

    In the long run, you’d be better of buying 2 used 60′ houseboats for less than $200k each which will easily house 10 people, raft them up and run them per your actual business plan with the minimum maintenance possible, and save all the money that you make. In few years, sell the business for a profit (and you will), and now with some serious green bucks in your pocket, take your concept to a third world country which has dirt cheap labor and build a 200′ x 200′ concrete seastead.

    It will take you just a couple of month after financing to get this thing going – the effort.

    Also keep in mind that run as a rental, your venture will have a low profit margin compare to a recreation-accommodation type venture, in the same location. Let me put it this way, what you’ll make in one month rent you’ll make in one week otherwise.

    http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Norris-Craft-17%27-9%26quot%3B-x-70%27-with-Catwalks-2653438/Norris-Lake/TN/United-States#.VAFXHDJdWSo

    http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/Jamestowner-Houseboat-16-x-72-2427325/Dale-Hollow-lake/KY/United-States#.VAFXSDJdWSo

    Shreddy,

    I did tell you back than that I really like the concept but totally disagreed with the square shape and I sugested at least a triangle (tristead, remember,…http://www.seasteading.org/forum-list/reply/i-do-tristead-idea-surface-seasteads/). We even got into a cursing match ’bout that, lol :)

    Well, nothing changed :)

    Now, what I REALLY don’t understand is why on Earth would you guys want to start with something so expensive, have outside investors involved, build from scratch, etc, when seasteading is still “uncharted business territory”, therefore high risk investment, and it will be really hard to get even $50,000.00 venture capital and forget about a bank loan.

    Why not do something small for $20-30,000.00 cash and make $40,000.00 profit in first year (which, by the way, I can prove on paper), and with that “proof of concept” in hand we can get millions in financing right away.

    #23909
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Why cut yourselves short with “I bet for $5M…” or “if I had $5 million…”? If you’re tripping in the FANTASYSTEAD, do it the right way for $1 billion or more to start with. It will be a longer high.

    I don’t have time and money to Fry in the Pan. Ask that guy how much money he made there. Zero, nada. That’s why he wants volunteers and sponsors. I know the waters there. That’s a very dangerous place to be hauling people or cargo to a tree house in the middle of the Graveyard. That’s not a seastead but a huge liability. Period. End of story.

    If you want to go and “be supportive” Shreddy, what keeps you for doing that?

    Myself, I like the Keys man,… With mild winters, crystal clear warm waters, coral reefs, good fishing, lots of tourists willing to spend money year long, beautiful laid back girls and plenty of good Caribbean rum.

    That’s where I’ll start seasteading man, nowhere else.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTotNRgSyqs

    #23904
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    It’s a rust bucket in the Atlantic Graveyard. Forgetboutit :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_of_the_Atlantic

    #23902
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    ellmer,

    We did talked about ferrocement before. Yes, I have seen some really bad ones, mostly home made, “bleeding” all over the place, and yes, there are still hundreds sailing the oceans as we speak. Regardless what you think or what I think it is what it is, and the method oh construction is determined by how much money you have in your wallet.

    Now, I am working for a living and I am not a rich person. When and if I will invest my money into a “seasteading project” it will be in the range of under $20,000.00 start up capital. More likely it will be along the lines of a “hang out on the water” type of venture, close to shore, which will provide the public with a “floating platform” for them to fish from, sunbath, go snorkeling from, rent jet skis, grab a burger and a beer, pay me for that and go home happy. Repeat.

    The only way I’m going to do that on $20k is to start with a houseboat as such “floating platform” and gradually add few ferrocement floating dock around it. I can’t do ANYTHING else for that kind of money and that’s a fact. So, I HAVE to be a very skillful builder if I want to succeed…I guess.

    The transition capacity of such venture is the ability to generate profit, grow and generate more profit, nothing else. Further down the road, with a higher start up capital now, the same concept can be built and operated 15 nm offshore, at a different scale, with better accommodations. Repeat.

    Only at this point I can look into building honeycomb structures from scratch.

    #23897
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I thought of foam or plastic bottles bonded with concrete too, but on second thoughts it’s not that efficient because you’re wasting cubic space which can be used for water tanks, sewage tanks, fuel tanks, storage space, auxiliary equipment, etc.

    Buoyancy is achieved by displacing a volume of water REGARDLESS how you displace such volume. Therefore, it should be displaced by a “hull” like structure (empty) so you can use the space inside.

    If not, and since you will have to built that space on top of the “float” no matter what, your construction costs will be much higher.

    My view is to keep it simple and use what is already proved to be working: ferrocement for structures under 100′ LOA and steel reinforced concrete for over 100′ LOA.

    #23884
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Yeah right! The only thing you gonna get for $1000 it’s a junk that needs a total refit. C’mon man,…get real.

    #23882
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Zutai,

    Any small scale seasteading project will be local. Different places, different start up capital requirement.

    Here is Florida, where I live, the CHEAPEST start up would be on a houseboat. There is no other way around that,…

    The LEAST amount of capital required for such project will be $20,000.00 and will operate something similar to this ($15,000.00 asking price): http://youtu.be/6dgw_DHAsd8

    #23880
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I’m sure that Shreddy meant WE as in WE the ones interested in seasteading, Spark.

    Elmer has an excellent point here with “Halfway to seasteading” 5 minimum requirements.

    I would go further and say that even with only the first 2 requirements, “It is on the water” and “You can make a living with it or on it”, as long as such venture is aimed to achieve the last 3, “You can live on it at least for some time”, “It has “transition capacity” to grow into a full blown Seastead in the future” and “It’s built of a cement based composite”, that will be a decent start.

    It doesn’t even have to be a “for profit” venture,…NFL is a non-profit 501(c)(6) organization and it made $9.5 billion in 2013.

    #23871
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Spark,

    Fish farming is labor intensive and low profit margin. You’d be better off (profit wise, I mean) by just fishing.

    Personally, I don’t see no practical value of geodesic domes or spheres when it comes to seasteading.

    #23867
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    To start with, “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”

    Here are the facts:

    I never said that technology IS NOT the driving force of how we live.

    I never said that seasteading is “something that will come for future generations”. All I said was “I am aware of the fact that MAYBE, some day, in a distant future (when I’ll be dead) there will be a choice of seasteads to pick from.”

    If Peter Thiel thinks that seasteading is “a way to escape politics in all its forms” he should build a seastead according to his vision. He definitely can afford to do so.

    I am not here to impose on anybody’s opinion, but to present the facts of how I will do it. And I quote: “It involves forming a community of “like minded individuals” who will in fact invest in themselves by build a seastead together. My view is that without seasteaders, how can you have a seastead? Without having “like minded individuals”, how can you have seasteaders? Without outlining AT LEAST a basic set of political and socio-economic guidelines, how can you determine the “like minded individuals” from otherwise?” Also the fact that: “To me, a direct democracy system (referendum based) would be the best choice….Personally, I won’t participate in any seasteading project that’s not based on (or at least similar in ideology) to the above principles.”

    If anybody believes the same, they are welcomed to the conversation and we can join forces. If not, they can go seasteading the way they want and I wish them the best of luck.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 1,177 total)