Forum Replies Created
March 1, 2014 at 11:51 am #23008
About three years ago I was in an email discussion with Ryan B. about a business plan for what I think is the same project you are talking about. I never got a response to my last email to Ryan about investor groups 1, 2, and 3, so that was the end of my involvement. I never saw an actual business plan.
My only potential involvement with your MMK project would be as a financial-only investor. I’m on the wrong side of the country to be actually involved.
KenFebruary 28, 2014 at 1:46 pm #22999
Kat said (of Blueseed) “it is still an example of a plan that did notwork!”
It’s a plan that is still in process. These things take time as well as money. It’s way too soon to be declaring it a failure.
When I talk about investing, I’m not talking about some individual working on building a boat for their own use, even if that use is seasteading. Where is the possible financial return in that?
Investing money with the hope of getting back that money and more (yet always bearing in mind the risk of not getting any of it back) means that there has to be some kind of business which will hopefully generate a profit.
That business needs to have a detailed business plan. For example, if the “plan” for a medical tourism seastead consists of … “Give us money. We’ll buy a ship and hire some doctors who can perform procedures which aren’t approved in the U.S.” … that’s no plan at all. That’s just pie-in-the-sky (or pie-on-the-ocean).
I would want to see quotes for the cost of buying the ship, the cost of the personnel to run it, the cost of fuel, food, etc., the cost of insurance, the cost of registering it with [probably] a flag of convenience, etc. I want to know what country’s flag it is going to be flying. I want to know where the doctors, nurses, and other medical support personnel are going to come from, how they are going to have been trained, what they are going to be paid, how that pay compares to what they could earn on land. I want to know what patients are going to be charged, how they are going to be transported, who is going to provide that transportation (with quotes with it will be provided by some third-party), etc. And that’s just scratching the surface of what I would want to see before I seriously considered investing money.February 28, 2014 at 8:24 am #22995
Kat, I wasn’t suggesting that you be involved in Blueseed. I was just presenting them as an example of a project doing things that you had presented as reasons why a business seastead wouldn’t work. Of course it remains to be seen whether Blueseed will even go into operation, much less be successful.
Yes, TSI was given a ship. The upkeep was too expensive, and so they did something. I don’t remember what, but I’m pretty sure it’s not the ship that Blueseed is going to use. As for “ignoring Blueseed”, TSI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. Blueseed is a completely separate, for-profit (hopefully!), organization.
Ocean, speaking as someone who has seen lots of talk on these forums (more so in the past than currently) about various projects, the biggest issue that I see as to why these projects can’t get investors is a lack of an actual business plan. Someone who is investing, i.e. expecting to get a financial return, wants to have some reassurance that there is a significant probability that the project will ever generate a profit.
So far, out of all of the talk, I’ve only seen one actual business plan. Everyone’s “plan” seems to be just of the “if I build it, they will come” variety. That doesn’t fly with investors, especially investors who have a lot of money to invest.
I do NOT fall into that latter category. But even as a low-level investor, if I’m looking at putting money into a seasteading project as investment (rather than a donation), then I want to see an actual business plan with solid numbers and facts to back them up.February 27, 2014 at 8:00 pm #22992
Are you familiar with Blueseed? http://blueseed.co/
It was started by TSI staffers who left TSI to do so. It’s not active yet, but it’s being worked on.
It will be in international waters, but within the U.S. EEZ.February 25, 2014 at 7:08 am #22971
I have deleted the whole “Thank You For Smoking” section of this thread.February 22, 2014 at 6:17 am #22946
What you are describing is essentially the Ephemerisle concept:
(Unfortunately the Ephemerisle website seems to be busted at the moment.)January 22, 2014 at 1:20 pm #22723
Ancient Man, FYI some of your posts were flagged by the software as spam for some reason, so I had to manually unflag them.January 18, 2014 at 1:38 pm #22686
Generally the discussions about vessels flying a “flag of convenience” involve being registered with some country other than the United States. In particular, finding a country which specializes in providing “flags of convenience” and will not make any particular effort to enforce their own laws upon the vessel and its occupants so long at they avoid doing anything blatant.January 18, 2014 at 12:26 pm #22683
The first-level things that go in the activity stream are:
* notification of new forum topics/threads/discussions (whatever you want to call it)
* notification of forum replies in an actual forum topic/thread/discussion
* notification of new user registrations
* notification of new blog posts
* notification of blog comments if the person is a registered user
* notification of group activity (of which we have close to zero)
* Entering something in the “What’s new, [name]?” box
These things can be replied to, but the reply is strictly in the Activity Stream. Replying to notifications of forum or blog activity in the Activity Stream does not post to the actual blog entry or forum thread.
In the actual forums is where discussions should take place.
The Activity Stream is somewhat similar to the Facebook News Feed, with automatic “sharing” of various kinds of website activities. Stuff scrolls off as newer stuff comes along, so it’s not the place to have an on-going discussion.
As for the “Read More” problem, instead of clicking it, try right-clicking and selecting to open in a new tab or new window.
KenJanuary 18, 2014 at 10:57 am #22679
The site is NOT broken.
Notifications of forum postings (and some other activities) are placed in the Activity Stream:
Using the Reply button in the Activity Stream does a reply to the notification rather than a reply to the actual posting. (Several people have done this lately.)
To make sure that a reply goes in the forum thread, it is necessary to go into the thread to reply, not use the Reply button in the Activity Stream.
TSI Primary Spamfighter and Volunteer AdminDecember 21, 2013 at 8:06 pm #22518
Hi shredder, long time, no see.
I haven’t seen the Floating City report, but then I’ve been busy enough with other things that my seasteading involvement has been pretty well limited to my volunteer position as primary spamfighter, plus assisting the TSI staff with technical support when they request it.
Your $250K minimum is your biggest problem with getting funded.
With small investments or small donations, you need a lot of people. If the average is $100, then you need 2500 people. Even if the average is $1000, you still need 250 people. And crowdsourcing really hasn’t taken off yet as a concept.
To get large investors you would need to be able show a solid plan for being able to provide a positive return on the investment, and since there is no demonstrable market for bergsteads, that’s pretty well impossible.
What you really need is someone (or some group) to give you a grant for the full amount, but those people/groups are extremely rare, particularly when you are needing a quarter of a million dollars.December 20, 2013 at 8:11 pm #22512
Generally the projects discussed are much less ambitious than trying to start an entire country; particularly those which would actually be seasteading (which IMO excludes anything involving living on an island).
The one project that I put money into was a proof-of-concept project of a particular type of seastead.
The project that wanted the minimum that I wasn’t comfortable with was a ocean-based business (i.e. a business actually involving the ocean, not just a business on the ocean like what Blueseed is doing). It had the possibility of expanding to the point where people could live on it and where it could move from sheltered territorial waters out into open waters beyond the EEZ. Because I didn’t invest, I didn’t follow it too closely, but IIRC the business ended up shutting down entirely.December 20, 2013 at 2:04 pm #22510
IIRC, Pastor Jason was one of the leading forces of SOBIZ. He was very active in the forums, then without warning he disappeared for several months. After a while I emailed him at two different email addresses trying to find out if he was even still alive, and got no response. I believe SOBIZ pretty much died during that period.
Pastor Jason did show back up, posted a few times, and then disappeared for good.
As far as my personal financial involvement in seasteading:
In addition to my on-going donations to TSI, I also put $2,000 in one user’s seasteading project. It was more of a grant than an investment, which is good because the project never got very far.
I also gave serious consideration to another user’s project, but he wanted a minimum buy-in that was around $8,000 if I recall correctly. Whatever the exact number was, it was more than I was comfortable with. I’m doing well financially, but I’m not wealthy. And I’m getting closer to retirement so that increasingly has to take priority.
The biggest problem with investing in any seasteading projects discussed in these forums is that few people/groups want to put together a detailed financial plan. And if it is presented as an investment rather than a request for a donation/grant, any serious analysis of how the investment could actually generate a positive return.July 18, 2013 at 7:16 am #22156
The email problem has been corrected and registrations are again permitted.
As mentioned previously, anyone who registered on or after 2013-07-11 (the 11th of July 2013) will have to register again.June 25, 2013 at 8:43 pm #22098
There’s no change to TSI being just a facilitator of seasteading
In the “Comprehensive Seasteading Project” part of the new TSI newsletter
you’ll see that they say “Once we make it to the end of Phase I of this comprehensive study, we hope to spin off a collaboration with real estate developers and investors to actualize the resulting plan.”