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  • #10931
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    elspru wrote:

    so they are our servants.

    you are aware of yourself,

    before aware of others.

    Remember if you live happily,

    you can share happiness with others.

    Remember it’s not a consent based society. So when we pay our taxes on food, land etc. its not by choice. When our overlords declare war, we have no choice, when they bring in conscription, we have no choice.

    Judge not on words but actions, & by that we can see clearly we are not being served, we service the monster that is our States & its political systems.

    I agree with the happiness though it works, just wish people would recipricate it IRL.

    elspru wrote:

    Policy is an imaginary boundary.

    Last time i was out on a yacht I saw the navy search another yacht that had some kids on it, they were about 300 meters of our port … when those guys come alongside.. YOU DONT ARGUE, they are well armed & train to kill & they get paid to, they have little in the way of reservationds about taking a life since they are trained to, & people that do those jobs will probably enjoy every second of it & they just want some action, so any “attitude” you give them, as they will say, will just make them take more action against you.

    I want practical soultions for the above problem & the “imaginary policies” of our States that they enforce offshore.

    as well as the TSI’s opinion on this, since they are talking about making a new nation, they are a U.S registered foundation, & under U.S law, so hows that going to work?

    eslpru wrote:

    How am I any different?

    after about 1 day of reading these forums it seems clear (& i mean this in the most sweet & funy way possible) your the resident fruitcake now that not to say their aint a few more on here, or that were not all insane, but jeez some of the stuff you come up with has me on the floor pishing myself LOL

    If possible Before I die (I got relatives in Canada) I just want to see the look on some port authority guy when you tell him he cant search your boat because it belongs to another terrestrial plain of existance & its last owners are waiting for it in Valhala or somthing.. lol

    I’m sure we will find somwhere to live, but we got to do somthign real a bit faster then the TSI are doing it.. because im gonnna be to old, before they get somthing real offshore working.

    However One of the big problems we need to adress & TSI have to also is, HOW ARE WE & TSI going t deal with MARINE SPATIAL PLANNING? its not going to go away, its real & people in suites use it against people in boats, so they live by it & people with guns enforce it every day.

    #10924
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Your some peice of work Wohl lol, saw your profile OMG, This prison, you were uhm a guest right?

    Oceanpolis, is those white things on the green “Deck” ment to be houses?

    I’m not even going to ASK what Valium is.

    What would you chaps mind telling me is wrong with putting your money together as a foundation? Then fabricating one large unit, it would be safer & give you greater savings on costs, not to mention you could have a larger communal outdoors area, or private plots on a larger single fabricatoin.

    even the TSI is looking at this from what ive read.

    #10922
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    to make it more fun you could tell us what country it comes from & we could guess ieie.

    #10916
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Well I can honestly say this is sounding like a “well regulated” minute man forum lol.

    #10915
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    I realy think that mining at sea is going to cause some REAL friction with coastal states, i know your talking about the middle of the atlantic or pacific, but Politicians are nothing but arrogant control freaks.

    They will take it badly, even if you have a good reason & they are wrong, remember “Might is Right” when it comes to politics. Justice, & Law are tools, or malleable obstacles, not somthing they take to heart, or as applying to them. (Such as Honor & Chivalry, to knights, simply a tool not somthing to live by or take to heart).

    The most consistent way ive found of predicting the motives & actions of such unfortunate creatures, is to think of them as Feudal Knights or lords of old, since reperesentation is little more than feudal warfare without the swords & castles.

    We are realy going to have to protect our interests some how.

    I think an ROV is the answer to, but maybe a conrete one big one, that sits over the site to extract what we need.

    #10906
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    NICE ONE OCEANPOLIS!

    I like it Could be good for village sized seasteads embarking on trade? that would link up to the City size seastead nice.

    Is this thing for 100 or so people?

    Thats a valid point ellmer.

    However maybe the “lighthouse” problem could be mitigated by using mainly electric lifts, & Jefferies tubes for emergancies.

    but i do like the concept. although maybe the lower section of the primary hull could be shaped up out of the water like a plate that would give you more speed.

    #10903
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Hey Capistor

    capistor wrote:

    There is no reason that agriculture could not become competitive with land based agriculture if we are working with salt tolerant crops. The White Mangrove is an example of a salt tolerant fruit which is edible after a week in a mud bath and boiling twice.

    your Right m8, but its probably not the best example, especially for some of the more hardcore anti-vegie folk (maybe mum made em eat to many Brussels sprouts for dinner when they were younger)

    But you are right about that, there is even a grass in the UK i read about that grows in salt water marshes, & sheep graze on them very well, Ive even tatsed that lamb its a bit mre salty than normal but I like it more salty, since lamb is a little boring any ways.

    Ok So we have a couple of REAL solutions, somthing potentially More Economically Viable than Aquaculture structures if mounted on cheap Caissons.

    1. Grass that can grow in Salt water conditions, as longs its not under water more than 20% of the time (based on tides of the origonal place where they get submerged during High & low tides, yet are not harmed)
    2. Sheep Can EAT that grass & be healthy, Sheep are also used to living near the coast, lol some of the mini islands on the west coast of Scotland have large flocks of sheep, ive seen them during a storm they roll up like a hedge hog & tumble with the wind its so funny to watch (like a tumble weed for you cowboys)

    So you aint wrong Capistor.

    elspru wrote:
    Please recall that plants originated in the ocean as algae.

    “14. let entity be metaversal or do mix” God created them yes & they spread through the oceans real fast so as not to mess up Gods 6 day thing.

    elspru wrote:
    Actually we can get all our dietary requirements from 100% seafood. Though we could have indoor gardens like you say,if we have some extra boats floating around, can reoutfit them as greenhouses.

    Yeh see, you missed the point, its not somthing 100% we need, like we dont need a toilet onboard, you only need to drop your kegs dump over the side, but its somthing we want, so we need it, now i like cooking & if i have to eat tuna without bresh Basil & Tomato’s im not gonna be happy, i need fresh things like SALAD, & they simply wont keep on extended journeys at sea.

    So we SHOULD be talking about, not just Aquaculture, but also Hydroponics & how food production should be split up into food groups, & what solutions to each problem.

    I think it should be 70% aquaculture, & the remaining dedicated to Vegitables Fruits & Herbs that wont last the importations in steel containers at sea for a long time. (the range from Coastal ports to the seasteads has to be considered).

    elspru wrote:
    I know shellfish are abundant, though I’m still quite hesitant, as they are one of the easiest ways to die of food poisoning. So I was thinking of mainly using them for cement mixtures.

    so you think its ok to eat “tasty algea” but not shell fish, full of protean & fresh goodness…? (i was going to ask if your mad…but with hind sight from reading these forums i err will give it a miss skipper) lol I like you elspru your a real colorful sort.

    elspru wrote:
    Yes, we can have rings of security, with loyal members silent, just like the illuminati, to protect our acts.

    Or.. we could just Tell ISA what we are going to do, & ask if there is any good reason we should not do it. & if they have a reason, but some one else is doing it we just ignore them like every one else, & qoute the other case when confronted with the issue.

    (Japan gets away with whaling because its Tasty ” Research”).

    I like your claim, & i see the idea, but I would not be standing on it at sea… I want proper construction, if you intend of selling them to people, they could be good for animals though, such as Caisson barges for grass to feed Sheep or Worm farming to feed chickens.

    CDF is a term used in marine construction for Computational Fluid Dynamics, there are special programs you can buy or pay lab’s to do CDF tests on ship designs, such as Numeca software, it helps you understand how your design will cope with the sea at its worst.

    It can also be used for working out how long your structure will last in the Sea, since many things eat away at concrete when in salt water. (hope this helps).

    elspru wrote:
    If you’re serious about seasteading. Do the research, you’ll find ferrocement is the best.

    Ferrocement, is one of the best options your right,

    If youl forgive me for indulging a reply to your remark; It would be more desirable to have a foating Island built & expanded around a sea mount that is built up above water, (offshore) to be used as a shallow bay & an anchor for your seasteads, than it would be to be trully offshore in deep water. (I will spare you the technical reasons why so).

    The book below sums up what i belive is the orderd way in which to aproach th whole issue of Starting a new nation at sea.

    Construction of marine and offshore structures (650 pages) by Ben. C. Gerwick Its somthing i suggest for you to read if you in serious about living on Caissons offshore. although its a pricey publication, its well worth it.

    hehe wrote:
    calm (Party) aware (Wasted) desire (Cant be arsed) choice ( you dont have a wife heh) love (After she uses your Master Card) express (Killing a trafic warden trying to put a ticket on your truck) intuit (knowing, just knowing there is one beer in the fridge at the back) move (do i have to?)

    #10902
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Hey aint that the place where some guy built an island & Tongo took ti by force & did not finish the construction so the island got washed away?

    #10901
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    PAINTBALL

    I Suggest Indoors paintball, its good for Island Defence, Getting people to work together & its fun, hell we could Host tourni’s & generate money that way!

    Another good thing is that it can be played anywhere, & you can pack all the equipment into a small space after use.

    If i was incharge of sports I’d have a national Paintball day, & every one has to wear a mask outside of tehir house! well maybe not lol, but it would be good in public areas, since all you need is some safety netting to seal of an area for the game, & the paint washes off easy.

    I actuly heard from an ex ferry 1st officer some crew on a cargo ship in the Med did paintball on the main deck to keep fit lol

    I win Footballs gay!

    p.s if you think the gun looks big, well you know the saying, it takes a pussy to make a paintball marker look big

    #10887
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Is there no Poll system on this forum? that could help you answer some of your questions Oceanopolis,

    I would want 244 sq ft for my own room to be content, but i would share that with my wife.

    people have to have a little space, so If i had kids i would expect them to get 240sqft each also.

    Your cabin cruiser sounds nice little pleasure craft, but no thats not the norm, I would say most people dont have anything near that experiance, hell i dont & ive done seasonal yachting work.

    I would buy a self contained building that could weather the worst & keep my family alive at sea.

    However If you keep things small say down to 50sqft PP or less you could probably rent mini apartments with communal cooking, wc/shower & living areas, that would be ok for short term rents, not long term, but since your talking about long term, I would say your going to have to go bigger m8, please.

    p.s do you intend to have each caisson self sustaining, for example generators, waste disposal, water storage etc?

    If you do then i think they will be ALOT more exspensive per caisson than a regualr house build, & would take longer than simply building a house on a cassion with sockets to plug into a central supply.

    If you do care about efficiency & Cost, then you will be making these house caissons dependant on an external source of supply right?.

    so before your built one of these house units, would you not need:

    • Power Station, Caisson Barge
    • Water Treatment & Pumping Caisson Pant
    • Waste Storage & Disposal Caisson Barge
    • Supply Store & Depot Caisson Barge (if its an outpost like you say)
    #10885
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    ok i see the 3 main questions.

    However, I would like to point out somthing, who is speculating? i thought this whole section of this (engineering) forum was to promote Ideas about Practical solutions to real problems, & at a later date draw on them for real projects.

    Now a real problem is; I & most other poeple like fresh Fruit & Herbs, some of which will degrade before you can Ship them via surface means, which means some of our facilities, Must be dedicated to hydroponics. (which has “black numbers” as you say).

    100 years Is a ridicules figure, when the hard numbers on hydroponics are quite evident.

    Even if its a 1-5 ration of sea based hydroponics units to aquaculture units, you are still going to need them for the plant stuffs that wont last long.

    So i dont contest the use of Sea based food chains, infact i think its the most realistic, & will likely make up 80% or so of the food production chain past the 200nm mark for seasteads.

    Now I do know a little about Aquaculture since my Mother owned 2 mussel rafts & a small salmon pen that had a triennial hall of 800t of mussels, & i helped my God-father work those rafts since i was 11 years old. I even know what people will do for that since our rafts were attacked when i was 14 by our neighbors during the night, because they wanted the part of Loch Leven in scotland we rented from the government.

    Ok so where are 1-2 hundred desperately poor people going to get $80,000 a day??

    You said “If we give a floating concrete shell platform to the poor people and enable them to live aboard go offshore and live relative comfortable for only 3000 USD on a 6m diameter float that is not a “yacht” but still much better than a wooden hut in a cramped settlement “

    Where is the solid figures for this? your concept not some one else’s idea or industrial data, i want your data,not because i want to put you in dificulty, but because i realy care about this, I want progress not just discussion.

    If you have a realistic concept with data (black figures) to show i’ll give you my email if you dont want to post them here, i’d want to buy into this if its credible, however if you dont want or cant show me, then why would you object to another concept that only has the intention of bolstering your original Dream?

    Mining the mid oceanic ridges, this is a good idea & i support it, however, its somthing that the UN care about, & are activly trying to control exploitation of said ridges due to environmental & coastal state interests of these resources.

    So i feel you will as I have said before, will be at conflict with coastal states about this,(even outside the EEZ’s) as much as a manmade island would be in conflict about territorial waters inside a coastal sates EEZ.

    And it dose not make good sense to me that 4000m the avrage seabed floor level, would be an economiclly viable for the TSI or yoursef to exploit, unless you have millions?

    Which brings us back to Seasteading on Concrete barges on the High seas more than 200nm from shore.. friend, i dont see it your going to have to show me;

    1. The Safety features of your 6m barge
    2. How Cost of materials, Fabrication, Man hours, & Deployment costs around $3000 each
    3. CFD test results on your model (not just a 3d renderd model)

    You said “but still much better than a wooden hut in a cramped settlement”

    Well m8 id rather be shitting in an open gutter next to my neighbors making breakfast, with a tarpaulin for a roof during a deluge, than be hangin’ on to a 6m caisson platform in the middle of the pacific during a kick arse storm, but maybe that just me.

    And whilst im at it, That thing your on about all the time, ITS A SUBMARINE! & also its a CONCRETE SUBMARINE which sounds WORSE, its not any kind of yacht loool.

    well if that hasnt excommunicated me from the “Concrete club” i dont know what will. (hehe)

    #10882
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Did you have a look at this?

    its got lots of links to software that can be used for isalnd & seastead design/simulation

    seasteading.org/interact/forums/research/tsi-research/tsi-marine-testing-software

    #10881
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    “LOL! Ya’ know, this whole site just goes round in circles…. We’ve said all this before… we’ll say all this again….”

    Like the man says, took me 3 days to figure that one, how long for you?

    #10880
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    I said, Its probably better for fresh fruit & herbs rather than bulk foods like cerials corn & carrots etc.

    I did not say it was the best option for 80% of the food we eat, infact i said If you read it, that 80% will probably be sea food in some way or another.

    The reason behind the idea of Fruit & Herb Hydroponics offshore is:

    • Most freshly cut herbs are refrigerated & flown into a country or area for consumption within a short time
    • Most fresh fruits with a short shelf life are flown into a country for consumption within a short time frame
    • Its unlikely we will have offshore airfields at first, especially its one of these “floating island” ideas

    Who had a dream about independence from buying products form other nations?

    “You make money and buy what you can not produce with high efficiency ” well thats how I understand the world works, so who is questioning that?

    #10870
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    You have heard of sea drouge’s right? we use em in life rafts.

    its like the 3rd thing you do after you get into the life raft to stop you drifting from where your ship sank. (& your last panpan)

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