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  • #23496
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    Elwar
    Participant

    So I think funding could be broken up into 3 different groups.

    1. A group of people who would like to live on the seastead.
    This group would want to be able to pay at the same time as moving onto the seastead. They would probably want to provide some input into what type of living environment they would want.

    2. A group of investors to take the risk associated with having the first seastead built. They would work on the cost estimates and come up with the best business plan and try to get the best return on their investment. Once they have the seastead built they would sell/rent/etc to those in group 1. They would need to come up with funding early and be willing to wait on their return from the initial investment to the start of the income from group 1.

    3. A group of investors to create a manufacturing company. Either through contracting out or forming from the ground up to work toward replication of effort for future seasteads. They would also need some early funding but the bulk of it would come after group 2 has their specifications ready and a large portion of the funding. Much of the investment would go toward being able to replicate the effort.

    Of course the people of the different groups could belong to just one or all of the groups depending upon their goals.

    Group 2 will require the largest amount of funding in the shortest amount of time. But they are basically the group that will get things rolling and have the most impact on the direction of the initial seasteads.

    #23464
    Profile photo of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    Ok, so far we have…none, as much as your current house, and not sure about price as long as it affords all amenities as on land.

    I can see it being fare to want to pay close to what your house is worth (do you currently live on oceanfront property?). But I highly doubt that a mortgage company would be willing to loan money out for a seastead, is your house fully paid off?

    If it were the case that people will only move if they cannot wait the 5 years to build the seastead then it would require investors. Investors who would be willing to invest and get a significant return on a 5 year investment. Which would probably mean more expensive seasteads for the eventual buyers (probably double the price figuring around 20% return per year).

    So the first seastead would likely have to be an investment property.

    #21073
    Profile photo of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    Ok, I have for the foreseeable future given up on this project, started breaking down the unfinished balls in my back yard and do not plan on moving forward with this. I will provide a lessons learned for this idea.

     

    The ultimate goal was to have an easy to make small component which would allow for incremental growth of an island which would allow you to actually make the island grow from the actual island. I chose spheres because of the strength that it would be able to hold against waves and for surface area.

     

    I will cut to the chase and describe how far I got. I was able to build 7 ferrocement spheres which could all float. I used nautical rope to connect three at a time, connecting each three to each other. The result was a hexagon with a single ball in the middle and six around the center ball. I had a Walmart pool that I was able to do a few wave tests on, it did appear that the front balls took the brunt of the wave and dissipated the wave by the time it got to the back balls. I was even able to sit (rather awkwardly) on the balls and they held my (~200lb) weight.

     

    My plan was to ramp it up with 30 more balls. I bought the materials and spent one hot Florida afternoon trying to build them all in an assembly line fashion. Unfortunately I believe that my technique was not the best and the cement was too thin and I ended up with a bunch of balls that were very brittle and not able to take more coats of cement before breaking apart.

     

    While I could have probably had 37 balls put together in a large hexagon form and had it floating in the Gulf of Mexico, life ended up getting in the way and an angry wife was not too pleased with a bunch of crumbling cement balls in the nice back yard.

     

    My technique for creating each ball was to buy a $2.50 Walmart bouncy ball, wrap it in mesh drywall tape and cover it in ferrocement. The last part is the most difficult. The first time I did it, I had fairly thick cement and I spread it on by hand with much cement clumping and falling off but after about an hour of work I had what was shown in my original picture. This ball was the heaviest but the strongest of all of the bunch, the thickness was probably close to an inch.

     

    My assembly line approach I used on the next 6 balls fairly successfully. Instead of a thick ferrocement mix, I watered it down a bit to where I could put the balls in the cement and roll it around until all of the tape was coated. I then allowed it to dry and continued to roll it in the cement later for several more coats. Ideally this would be done throughout one day but I took a few weeks doing coats here and there. The thickness was decent enough and the outer coating was a lot smoother. For these I used the mesh tape all over the ball, it is difficult because the tape does not stick and you have to keep globbing cemented tape around the ball.

     

    So I tried to do the same with the 30 balls. I did not have as much tape so I thought that if I did a criss-cross pattern on the ball it may hold the cement in between tape spots to hold and I had planned on doing several coats in one day so I figured that the cement would hold. This was not the case. It only held where the tape was and crumbled off everywhere else. Plus, after working through 30 balls in the hot sun, I was in no shape to continue putting on more coats and it was crumbling anyway so I was very frustrated.

     

    I did get pictures of the balls in the pool and some video but unfortunately the SD card in my phone died.

     

    This would be a good project for someone who wants to try to do something on the cheap but has some time on their hands. You can even pile all of the balls in your truck and drive to the water to test them.

     

    For the 37 ball hexagon I was looking at a cost of about $160 shooting for a price of close to $5 per ball.

     

    The beauty of it is that you can use the balls as a way of breaking the waves and the force would be distributed. A 10 foot wave would only need about 10 feet of balls to break up the wave with everything beyond that having very little motion. You could add balls underneath to add bouyancy but the balls each can hold around 50-100lbs.

     

    I would have loved to just set one of these up out in the Gulf near where I live and put some solar lights on it or reflectors so boaters could go out there and use it as a meeting spot and hang out. It would have been great for camping out on the water as well.

     

    I had ideas for an even sturdier ball with much more buoyancy and even a way of generating electricity by the movement between the balls but that would require a significant capital investment and I was only planning on pursuing such funding once my proof of concept had been finished.

     

    Hopefully someone else can take on this project and go with it.

    #20665
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    Elwar
    Participant
    #20570
    Profile photo of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    “Making a flying house is much more expensive and harder”

    I saw a documentary of a guy who just tied a bunch of balloons to his house and he was able to fly Up into the sky.

    The documentary also showed technology that allowed a dog to talk through a voice machine on his collar.

    #20536
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    Elwar
    Participant

    Anyone can put up a webpage with a project idea and ask for money.

    #20440
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    Elwar
    Participant

    “I hate those fuckers. Their ideas are so Stalinist they got no clue at all. ”

    meh, I have no worry for any communist movement that has no force behind it. It would be like going on the attack against left wing talk radio. They tried it, it failed.

    Communism fails on its own. No need to go after it.

    #20381
    Profile photo of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    Good idea. I mainly saw it more as having a large amount of energy generation surrounding each stead. Being an energy producer is quite beneficial.

    This article http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/12/saltwatercrops/ shows how we could use salt water crops for food (vegetable oil) and fuel.

    But it may come down to efficient use of breakwater “real estate”. I doubt that the floating plants you are talking about could thrive in 10-50 foot waves which means that they would have to be behind a breakwater where the water is more stable. But then you are giving up liveable space where someone could have their own seastead.

    The first steads will be much like early homesteaders though where you need to have crops and sources of fuel, initially just for survival with the hopes of one day producing something for sale or trade.

    #20380
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    Elwar
    Participant

    I could see it as, he was able to get all of the local wildlife into his boat as opposed to “all animals in the world”. And the area he lived in was hit by a big flood. Perhaps a plate shift occurred or a massive weather occurrence.

    He was the original Doomsday prepper.

    #20379
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    Elwar
    Participant

    “I mean if someone is gonna copy your patented idea to make money and go out in the ocean who’s gonna go after them and shut them down?”

    I believe that initially there will need to be patents because we do not have seasteads where manufacturing will be taking place, all of that will likely occur in some country, selling to people from that country to go out into the sea.

    If someone were to build a seastead and start using patented technology then that would be something the patent holding nation would want to have to decide whether they want to deal with it or not. Judging from the way that the US deals with China and their copyright theft, they would likely be free to copy.

    But initially, just like choosing a flag of convenience, we need to play by the rules of the countries of choice until we reach the goal of truly seasteading.

    #20301
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    Elwar
    Participant

    The new poor man’s patent (at least here in the US) is filing a provisional patent application.

    This locks you in for a year of showing off your invention and exposing it to the world without anyone being able to patent it. But all it does is gives you that one year to file for an actual patent.

    It only costs like $125.

    #20294
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    Elwar
    Participant

    One reason for the patent would be so that you can build your own invention without someone else patenting it and then keeping you from building your own invention.

    #20275
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    Elwar
    Participant

    Cool idea for a plant float. It would actually be cool just for the aesthetics of a seastead to have a bunch of floating plants surrounding it.

    #20274
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    Elwar
    Participant

    “Any one actually currently doing this yet? I ask since this thread of the forum is labled “active seasteading” and I see great ideas but none actually doing it yet. I would love to see someone do it and pass on their experience/advise/cautions/etc.”

    Currently seasteading is in its very early stages. That means that most of these projects are in the prototype stage. Basically someone comes up with a concept and builds a small model and sees how it goes, they work out the kinks and try it until that small scale model works as desired. Then they build bigger and bigger scale models until they have a working prototype. After the prototype is developed and the kinks are worked out, then you apply for a patent so that other people do not steal your idea and run with it.

    There are several stages of prototype seasteads being developed by people on this board. From the ferrocement dinghy to a working scale Bergstead to CompulsiveCoder’s bottle design. I am personally at the beginning stage of patenting my prototype after satisfying some of my initial testing. I hope to be able to start the next phase which is seeking investors and manufacturing within the next month or two. I believe that such a venture will be in high demand once Obama wins a second term and people scramble for an escape route.

    The closest there is to an actual international waters seastead has been a few families loading up on their large sailboats and taking off to live remotely for years at a time.

    #20184
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    Elwar
    Participant

    “an actual Bergstead wwould cost at least $5 million”

    Ahh…

    ya, I was not talking about selling the scale version, just the final version

    You never know though, someone may be willing to pony up a good chunk of change to get a discount or the first Bergstead in production. But that is a whole different search.

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