Your Ideal SeaStead Community
October 12, 2009 at 8:59 pm #8167
Kulak: There are many companies around the world regulating such rules in workhours, like exercise
Treason: Since governing body is composed of local company administrators, it can be anything like industrial spies. Since it is an isolated community need for patents arent neccesary in all products but this may be a commercial problem when the stead is better established if there is leak in commercial secrets. Terrorism is another example. People are free to talk about their ideals but cant take action, only action that can be taken is to leave the community, it is not really a democratic state even if it(it refers to Orb Union) respects its citizens rights in almost everyway. So revolutionary movements are an act of treason unless (majority of the population must be supporting their faction)they make a presentation about their ideals to governing body. In the case of such an incident, government observes the movements of participants of the revolutionary group and analayzes the system they presented. If it is defined ‘reasonable and more efficient’ governing body itself volunteers for the revolution. If government body finds the offer unreasosanble then government makes a presentation to opposing faction, explaining why it is impossible since its less efficient and reasonable. If the opposing faction doesnt agree with no solid(less efficiency cant be tolerated without concrete reason) reason they are guilty of treason.October 12, 2009 at 9:04 pm #8168Michael wrote:
Hey, it’s his stead. His rules. If someone wants a neo-Taliban at sea, well…that’s a great place for it as long as all the residents are there by choice.
I’ll wave as I sail by…with a smoke in one hand and a cocktail in the other, pooching out my beergut. My wife will wear her finest Tijuana garb. Can’t think of a way to flaunt our age of consent; we’re both comfortably in the middle-aged demographic. But I’ll research the possibilities in-depth.
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”
Hear! Hear! To that.
I’ll be sailing by with you, if it suits our schedules.
– NickOctober 12, 2009 at 9:16 pm #8169
There is no such thing as ultimate freedom, where laws of men are extinct laws of nature and physics are still in effect and they are absolute, since men can do nothing about it they don’t whine but when it comes to menmade laws everyone opposes. Then only way to stop people whine is to make laws absolute by strict law enforcement until it becomes natural for the society to adhere laws. And first articles of law must always limit the freedom of government itself since being able to change laws is the prime reason why governments get corrupted.
Solution: Most efficient governing methods must be experimented on different societies for various generations and the results must be compiled into a data storage. With that very input ideal government must be defined and laws of it must be put in effect and governing bodies freedom to change it must be removed until the laws become natural for the society.October 12, 2009 at 9:35 pm #8172
I respect your right to do whatever you want with your personal utopia, even if it’s not to my liking. I say, go for it, good luck. Seriously.
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”October 12, 2009 at 9:36 pm #8170
…your ‘stead will be one of our frequent stopovers con su permiso. Sundown cocktails and the Weather Channel. 😉
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”October 12, 2009 at 9:56 pm #8175
Also agreed. Personally I’d rather die than live on your stead, literally. But as long as everyone on board chooses to be there and can leave whenever they want, it’s not a problem.
How would you measure when a child is mature enough to choose to leave?
– NickOctober 12, 2009 at 11:21 pm #8181
For the 2nd generation the laws will be alittle harsher(from an outsiders point of view). But still after graduating from the middle-highschool (at the age of 14) the child can leave, but it gets rather complicated for people trying to leave at 20 yearsold (for 2nd+ generation) Community gives citizen his seastead or resident for free after graduating from academy, until citizen works enough to pay for the stead he cant leave(as to be expected government doesnt charge any money for seastead if they worked for the community for sometime, but for people who only worked for amonth or for a year, this charging is a must since this law would be abused otherwise, so lets say people who want to leave the community after working 6-7 years dont pay a shit for their seastead and can take it with them if they wanna leave, its similar to some sort of retirement bonus i guess but for people who didnt work for such period of time they must either pay for their stead or leave it in the community) unless he renounces his ownership on his stead(he will be funded the amount he worked for back in this case).October 12, 2009 at 11:24 pm #8165
You are getting it all wrong i guess, This is no monarchy. Besides everyone is free to leave anytime they want, and they can use the funds they get from local companies(they get funds equal to their shares ratio from monthly profit of the company they are working in) exhanged to foreign currency, and they can use it in investing on foreign companies. There is no single souvereign, instead governing body consists of 10-12 representatives drawn from local companies (Seaculture, Medical Science, Transportation, Education, Law, Intelligence&Defence, Economics, Ecology, Aeroponics, Software Engineering, Tourism) Companies are not private and their ceos thus representatives may change every six months, if another individual shows higher performance than current administrator of the subject company. People’s freedom is limited that is for sure but only to increase efficiency and their medical condition. This community is solely for people who cherish self perfection in their profession. Marriage is an obsoulute concept, 2 childs from same parents is restricted unless medical department advises the opposite, to protect and preserve genetical pool. A couple may want to live together and free to do so, but upon becoming citizen any legal bond between them are nullifed either by divorce or by religious ritiual(if any is necessary in their religion, though there may be exceptions for the first settlers since they might not have the neccesary education to understand all the reason behind every single law). Their body is their property still that doesnt give them right to destroy it. People destroyed monarchy and oligarchy in most of the world because they didnt want to be abused by their rulers, same releation goes for an individual’s body and counciousness( body= subjects of the state, Councious: Monarch, Ruling Body). People with ill counciesness are treated with these laws its a service not tyrany. Children live with their female guardian (mother if alive) to age of 3,5 then they are sent to dormitaries to live together with other children for educational and socialogical purposes(more data will be presented in another comment on this subject). Age of consent for limited sexual interaction is 15, citizens who are done with their educational life are free to live with their partners if they want to(at least 18 years old, assuming the citizen finished his academis 2 years earlier than he/she should).
(Being healthy is both your counciousness’ and body’s right, when you get sick you want it to be treated and go to hospital, your counciousness denies your body’s right to do whatever he wants and makes you get rid of the sickness if possible for the sake of survival, now think otherwise, You smoke and drink whole your life and deny your body its right to be healthy. This releation is the same releation type between people and corrupt governments. You are dictating your body to do things against its nature and you are trying to justify it by saying ‘its my right’. There were species in dinosaurs with 2 or 3 neural centers. Do you think your active councious is the only councious in your brain and body, then you are dead wrong, it is only the strongest one among them. We must teach ourselves to be respectful to our body before expecting respect from people and societies to our freedom)
And ocean, i just want to be a regualar citizen in such system, a system which cherishes self perfection, individualism and nationalism (nationalism concept here has nothing to do with any kind of fascism, and if you think nationalism and individualism are seperate or opposite concepts you are right, what i meant with nationalism is citizen semphaty for the governing method) Purpose of this society is to increase the efficiency of the humankind to its maximum and nothing else. Btw it is called ‘Orb Union’ for ideological purposes (not cus its a fancy country name in some mecha anime…so its not just a name) it does have meaning for citizens.
Why will people join this stead? There are millions of people in the world who are dying (many of them actually died for it) to live in such a society. And people who don’t think like we do are free to do whatever they like as long as they dont mess with our freedom. There are different people thinking in different ways all around the world, everyone should have an opportunity to live in a society they longed to. Besides one of the purposes of seastead project in the long run is to experiment and find which society will be most efficient and prosper as i know.
In short; Innovative Representation: Encourages self perfection, efficiency. It is not constructed on an obsolute idea stating that government is solely for people. Government is responsible for preservation and evolution of ecology(it doesnt only mean protecting forest and fighting with greenhouse effects but also preservation of every species), peace, humankind, stability(economic, its subjects prosperity), efficiency. (fantasy: Governments late future responsiblity is to fight with uncontrolled mining of close asteroids and moon for the sake of protecting the balance in the solar system)
Everyone thanks for your critics and ideas, i would be glad to hear about your ideal societies too. And please try to criticise with a bit more detail. I’m no fanatic of any ideal, i’m not living with such high virtues, i’m a smoker too, i’m just trying to find what is ideal for humankind. I havent read any modern philosphers in detail(done with greek though and a number of socialist thinkers in modern era), though my father was a known communist in my country who was jailed for 16 years for verbally defending his ideals during a militaristic revolution. He is a well educated politician and philospher and i had much time to discuss my ideologies with him too… My expectetion is to further analyze this government with the help of your critics. thanks again…October 13, 2009 at 12:04 am #8183
I don’t think many people will want to surrender their wealth to join you.
– NickOctober 13, 2009 at 12:21 am #8184
I dunno, sounds like a first-cousin incestuous relationship between wage slavery and personality cult. So one must obey these astoundingly restrictive laws in order to live there, and must work to pay off the debt of being there in the first place in order to leave? With regard to the 2nd generation, what happens if a child doesn’t want to live in such a…shall we say, regimented environment? Can he leave with the permission of the Leader? Or is he born in debt, and thus forced to pay the price of being born in NoFunWhatsoeverLand, unable to leave until the Leader decides his debt is paid? Will he be charged rent while he is living where he doesn’t want to live, accumulating debt for the privilege of living a miserable existence?
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”October 13, 2009 at 12:59 am #8186
How are you guys understanding the idea so wrong (is it my english which causes this misunderstandings i wonder)?
This community doesn’t want anyone’s wealth in the first place, it is not constructed with citizens’ investments or donations :S
Everyone can use the funds they receive monthly to invest in foreign nations and no one touches those even if they one leave, what is earned is rightfully theirs.
No one needs to pay anything to leave, it is only required if they want to take the seastead with them and if they didnt work in the community for a certain time, seastead(or residental area if it is a single massive seastead community) belongs to community in the firstplace but then given to each citizen upon reaching adulthood (20)
And seriously what is so miserable about being in such a community, could you please explain me in detail? And what was that about incest releations i don’t remember mentioning such thing? :S
A youth can leave when he is 14. Or can leave with her/his guardian(mother) if he/she is younger than 3.5 years old.October 13, 2009 at 1:30 am #8188
It’s just exactly the opposite of how I’d like to live. Don’t do this, don’t do that, being forced to live according to what seems to be an astoundingly complex and pervasive system of rules and restrictions on behavior; it’s authoritarian to the point of being totalitarian. A law against obesity? I mean, what happens if a child is born who has a twinned recessive genetic tendency to obesity and just can’t help being fat? Is he thrown overboard? Sterilized so he can’t breed, so as not to contaminate the race?
Anyway, if you choose to live in, or create, such a dystopian society, more power to you; I believe you absolutely have the inborn right to do so so long as nobody is forced to be a member of this society. It’s definitely not for me. Your vision of the ideal society is exactly the kind of society I am working towards leaving behind. I live by Bill and Ted’s golden rule.
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”October 13, 2009 at 1:57 am #8193
People fill their purses by setting laws, but here every citizen has an equal share in companies they work in. If another citizen’s wage increases it applies to everyone doing same business in same company (funds accumulated through extra working hours is an exception). Laws are not limiting your freedom for someone to fill his purse in this kind of society but to increase you efficiency and to increase your prosperity, laws when administered correctly are beneficial to citizens in every aspect.
There won’t be any citizens with chronic anomalies in their background. (I was afraid someone would notice but this obesity article is actually a part of set of rules about wannabe citizens medical conditions and i accept it is harsh to the point of being equivalent to racist approach in many ways) It is not like this community despises people who are disabled in someway, But to be a citizen you must be totally healthy in the first place. Also if a citizen gets a disease or gets disabled, it doesnt have any negative effect on his rights(exceptions can occur tho).
There are no Uncle Sams, Churchills, Atatürks, Saddams, Arafats, Hitlers etc here… I’m okay with being a sports teacher/advisor, librarian, physical worker etc in such a society, don’t get me wrong i don’t have any sick ambitions.October 13, 2009 at 2:06 am #8194
Oh btw i wonder which society is that your trying to leave behind, if there is such a well administrated one, i would like to go there by all means ;P
And is this the things to do for fun for everyone in this world: Drinking, Smoking, Overeating? There arent any limitations to individuals rights as long as he doesnt damage his own body or the society.October 13, 2009 at 2:51 am #8196
When I accomplish something either by competing with another individual or myself.
When I have sex with a beatiful and passionate woman after a week or more of sexual inactivity.
When I compete with another individual mentally or physically on equal terms.
When I get reward for my hardwork for achieving a certain goal.
When I succesfully help someone who desperately needs help.
When I learn something totally new which i wouldnt,couldnt imagine without hearing/reading it.
These are the stuff which makes me feel kinda good, i don’t really understad the idea of fun, sadness and happines though. I’d rather call my feelings as Accomplishment and Satisfaction instead of fun and happiness, dissapointment and regret instead of sorrow or anger, I do feel excitement and curiosity in some cases though. But i do understand something, i was brought up in a society similar to the one i describe as ideal, perhaps my way of thinking is different solely because of that, i have received love of my parents but i was spoiled too much and i was very far from being humble, i was succesful and popular in everything i tried and most of school life was either private colleges,academies or boarding schools with harsh discipline and a hard educational content. Result was an disciplined, calm, cold in mood but polite with his actions, succesful, arrogant guy who underestimates almost anyone if he wasnt taught the other way(i was quite kind to ladies and old people since i was taught that way but a smile would hurt my face even when talking to them)…with years that character changed greatly though thanks to business and a settled lifestyle. Still i do believe that system of bringing up children is more productive for the community, though it should be administered a bit more mildly for not causing stress to the child.
This was more like a bio than an answer+question but still, do you really think children brought up with discipline thinks it is boring or wrong?… I ve seen many girls in university whose fathers are soldiers, and it was true that they were rebels and really passionate about things they havent experienced. But it is only natural because society and circumstances were different than the one they were brought up in. I don’t think they would go wild in an authoritarian society. (dont get me wrong i m not defending to do that though, my understanding of limitations doesnt have any impact on fun as you call it cept for drink,smoke,overeating)
The forum ‘General Chat’ is closed to new topics and replies.
Posted on at