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why going oceanic is the next big thing to come in business

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of ellmer - http://yook3.com ellmer – http://yook3.com 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #23526

    ocean business development key player network.floating business development.floating business development...
    We live on an “oceanic waterplanet”, the population is growing one billion per decade, shore cities are running out of development space, a global trade, oceanic container, economy, supplying shoreside megacities is implemented already, globalisation is a reality, mobility a need, frontier development a driving force of economy, and floating industrial installations are popping up around the globe.

    This leads to the following mega-trends:

    The quest for interference freedom,

    The quest for mobility,

    The quest for resources,

    The quest for space on the planet

    Read more about this:
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/

    Let me hear your thoughts…

    #23528
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    [Citation Needed]

    #23535
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Why Cartagena is going to be a bad place to start a seastead, guaranteed to get boarded and searched often:
     
    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/04/10/colombian-police-seize-7-tons-cocaine-bound-for-netherlands/
    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/04/15/police-in-colombia-seize-3-tons-cocaine/
     
    I am not singling out Cartagena, but any flag of convenience comes with built-in prejudices and issues, along with the benefits. I have heard some ports will not allow certain flags to enter, and some flags trigger an automatic search of the ship, which of course varies by when and where.

    #23536


    Cartagena Main Port and economic center of the Spanish overseas Empire.
    Baysteading and Flag of convenience is not about “yellowpress image” – it is about real business advantages and interference freedom. A ship (equally as a baystead) is considered a “piece of territory” of the flag nation. With almost all ruling code (except environment) depending on the flag nation of free choosing – You can be twenty meters from shore, and apply to a completly different rule set as the land city you are plugged into. That opens VENICE style business opportunities on large scale. Colombia is Latin Americas oldest and most stable democracy, it is the C in CIVETS nations, fast growing, emerging economies, with potential to explosive growth, in the next years, called, Latin Americas Emerging Tiger Nation, Colombia is third in population and among the top 5 in economic power on the Continent. Colombia is a “must look at” spot on the global investors “next to do list” …
    Latin American nations are built on the tradition of Simon Bolivar, who was a strong believer in nations where special groups are represented in a federal Government. This makes having special statuses (legal, political) INSIDE the state a very feasible and normal situation. Free trade zones, indian nations with different laws, Colombia is by nature a patchwork of special statuses that makes what seasteading is pretending just another patch in a natural patchwork.
    A baystead twenty meters from shore would fly its own flag – so be a foreign territory by defintion, hold a free trade zone status, and hold a special culture territory status and run a bitcoin internet based offshore banking center. Which makes it Venice on steroids in the heart of the economic power center of the emerging latin powerhouse, reviving the economic center port of the greatest ocean oriented economics block in history – THAT is what Cartagena is about. http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56026816/the-spanish-oceanic-empire/
    This is of essence because all actual settlements and economic business centers and development opportunities resemble this historic pattern.

    Interference freedom and floating status:
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56351996/business-and-third-party-interference-freedom/
    Venice style business on a baystead:
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56710025/venice-italy-how-to-do-instructions-for-seasteading-from-his/
    Why oceanic business is the next big thing to come:
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/

    To round up the picture Cartagena is in the small hurricane free band of the Caribbean – which allows houseboat style floating structures as viable option. And has protected deepwater bay bigger than the area the City is built on – open to floating development.
    It is definitly the best natural harbor feature on the Continent reason why the Spanish overseas empire was developed from here in first place. What is a global marine container shipment economy today was founded and first implemented by the sail ships of the spanish overseas empire.

    Hurricane Routes in the Caribbean

    Considering all those factors there is nothing remotly comparable to Cartagena in the Caribbean, and the Pacific coast of the Continent is “jungle and desert” where no Venice business model can prosper ever…

    It is not coincidence that 3 submarine fiber cable communication backbones (Arcos, CFX, Maya) converge in Cartagena.
    A baystead can plugg directly into that…

    Port of Cartagena, most efficient port in the Caribbean award – 6 times in a row last six years…

    #23537

    Investment boom Cartagena Marine Business Cluster.
    http://colombiareports.co/cartagena-enjoying-unprecedented-investment-boom/#
    Now direct flights New York Cartagena.
    http://colombiareports.co/avianca-will-fly-direct-new-york-cartagena/
    Colombia is the C in CIVETS nations, fast growing, emerging economies, with potential to explosive growth, in the next years, called, Latin Americas Emerging Tiger Nation, Colombia is a “must look at” spot on the global investors “next to do list” …

    We will implement floating platforms for a wide range of industrial and tourism applications.
    -The afloat ship repair business is taking off.
    -Floating housing in a hurricane free bay is already implemented with the Navegante Cholon – more to come.
    -Floating marinas are in progress.
    -A floating military base is in discussion.
    -Floating real estate squaremeters are in high demand due to the city development needs.

    So Cartagena is a center of marine business development in any case, investors from China, Dubai, Brazil, and Europe are putting their eye on the City. Donald Trump is building the biggest oceanfront Skyscrapper (Ocean Towers – half finished already)…

    This is the decade of oceanic business development and emerging marine key players the VENICE business model is back in a global world of marine trade routes and opportunities.

    #23538
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    A map of what Spain did 400 years ago isn’t helpful to me. And if you are floating, you do not get the benefits of whatever internet cables exist on land, you get whatever a satalite company will allow you, and at huge prices (even in Miami port, where all those cables in your pretty pic also converge, you can be on a cruise ship and get $10/minute phone bill). I have read of the US coast guard boarding Canadian-flagged boats every day in usa waters, looking for reasons to arrest and confiscate the boat.

    #23539

    All is about perspective. To learn where settlements, trade routes and business opportunities are today the best access is to understand how they came historicly in place. To understand why a New Yorker like Donald Trump is investing in building his new skyscrapper in Cartagena (instead of Manhattan) you need to understand that this is a “informed bet” on how the future will develop. History gives you a perspective on presence and future.

    The asumption that the “treatment practice of the US Coastguard for annoying weekend boaters” will automaticly apply to a baystead marine cluster in Cartagena or even to a mobile business headquarter type Eclipse doing business in the Cartagena Marine Business Cluster is somewhat flawed and not very realistic. You definitly need to drop that “boater perspective”, you also need to understand that US and Colombian marine authorities are culturally very different and that difference matters A LOT for a baystead. DIMAR the Colombian Marine Authority has “active support of all waterbased economic activity” written in article one of its function code…another “cultural reminent” of the spanish oceanic empire…
    So if the US and Europe is driving citizens away with to much interference Cartagena is willing to give them a interference free space plugged into the worldwide communication backbones and tradroutes, in tropical ambient, with a floating community. I implement that with a floating development company type seasteading INC. and the Government definitly backs that.
    ..
    I have miles and miles of hurricane free calmwaterspace as development area to offer. Real estate prices per squaremeter are much lower than on land and of course lower than in Florida…You have 4 giga internet Wifi / UNE everywhere in the Bay…a five minute boat ride brings you to the touristic heart of Cartagenas Walled City, or to a cristal clear water tropical sand beach, with no tourists – your choice…

    #23541
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Ellmer, perhaps if you can show Donald Trump the numbers, he will build a Fonseca Project in Cartagena, or somewhere else. He wants a certain amount of floor space, so show him a floating foundation for that office space will cost as much as a building foundation on land. Show it will tolerate water motion as well as the land building will tolerate earthquakes. Show the infrastructure (drinking water, sewage, electricity, internet, delivery services, taxi) will cost no more than on land. Try to convince him if the canal to the Pacific goes thru to Turbo, he can tow his building to there. There’s lots of tourist places Trump can put a building, he won’t care so much about a couple interesting places nearby. He doesn’t care about concrete building vs steel, or how the city lights reflect off the water at night.
     
    Instead of just repeating yourself about how great it is (or how you think it will be), or how close it is to certain tourist places, prove the math. Get the actual numbers, call around and get quotes. Do an engineering and operational study for a water barge with the same office space as his new Cartagena building on it. Check the insurance costs, real estate tax costs, and resale values.
     
    The numbers i come up with agree with an old USN study: a (minimum) 300ft/100m square very sheltered shallow water floating barge will survive very well and be very liveable, and a very deep water (minimum) 300ft/100m square tower is also very workable, at least for spaces that are not tall. That’s a decent commercial office space size. There’s issues with the space between the two designs in various water conditions. But Trump wouldn’t be interested in anything but sheltered baysteads. Think outside the box: floating bridges to the baystead (proven floating bridges exist, they aren’t new), small onboard megawatt thorium reactors for power, water cooling for everything, etc., consider everything. Just run the numbers.

    #23542

    Kat, that is exactly how real estate business development works. It is about squarefoot prices, and infrastructure cost.

    I am only repeating if i get the impression that sombody has missed a important part and needs to catch up. This is why my posts normally contain links to sites where this catch up of info is provided.

    The perception that there is a need to “prove the math and the numbers” is a bit all this is has been done in the early days of concrete marine engineering in a broad and well documented way. A starting point for reading it up is provided here: http://imulead.com/tolimared/concretesubmarine/anuncios/du/ Including platform honeycomb structures and tubular structures.

    My baseline numbers collected in real world pilot projects in the bay of Cartagena are:

    Floating real estate squarefoot building cost is 19 USD low end and 89 USD high end.
    This numbers should be read as a (project implementation cost) / (total squarefoot produced in the project) figure.

    The range of 19-89 USD comes from the characteristics of the building site. 19 USD is a low interference building site where you can convert money in floating squarefoot without major interference and got over the initial project start up costs. 89 USD is for a high interference building site.

    It matters little if you deploy the building material in form of floating honeycomb platforms or in form of tubular structures. The general project cost is the same.

    Any investor can check the real estate prices in Cartagena for oceanfront real estate and pin down the “profit margin” in a floating development project taking the production cost figures above as baseline.

    By the way Donald Trump is a highrise building investor who also invests in golf club projects. My investors are more asociated to Marina development, family housing projects, and port infrastructure investments. But if he gives me a call i will definitly listen to his proposal.

    The “Donald” says that it makes no sense “to explain a lot around investments” a good investment is so obvious that you don’t need to explain it…investors will come and ask for opt in – this is what investors do.

    So what i do here is merely throw in the facts about Cartagena and floating structures in general…

    I agree that a Baystead Cluster with Venice business model is the obvious starting point for Seasteading – The “Floating City Project seems to share that point of view…

    #23543
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Eller says:

    The “Donald” says that it makes no sense “to explain a lot around investments” a good investment is so obvious that you don’t need to explain it…investors will come and ask for opt in – this is what investors do.
    ….
    I agree that a Baystead Cluster with Venice business model is the obvious starting point for Seasteading – The “Floating City Project seems to share that point of view…

    But so many “big” projects seem to point to using old cruise ships out on the ocean, altho i figure that’s a pretty bad idea, at least it keeps getting mentioned. I don’t think any of the *_stead ideas are obvious investments, because what is obvious is no one is doing it. The “Offshore Structures.pdf” is 10 years old and doesn’t address the cost of running a commercial building offshore on a barge, the insurance, or the resale value. It pretty much does what you do: present pretty pics of what’s possibly possible to build. The url you gave also addresses none of my concerns. None of that would cause an investor to call you, there’s no “money – in — money – out” charts.
     
    I tend to agree with Ocean, and his MMK idea, decent sized individual affordable floating homes in sheltered waters. As the bathtub approach to floating gets larger, it gets massively taller to have strength to handle hogging stresses. At least with the Trump approach, the building itself can contain and hide the internal reinforcing beams across the tub’s span.

    #23544
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Here‘s some canceled permits for various deep water floating and bottom-sitting concrete ports off the usa.

    #23545

    Good business/bad business is about “meeting pricepoints” of a “existing market” and having a “attractive offer compared to your competitors”. Port infrastructure is needed when a economy is growing not when it is in stagnation (at best) – if we want to be taken serious in business we need to start to pay attention to that kind of “minor details”. It should be clear to everybody without much discussion that suburban housing on ships is a non viable proposal because you propose to meet “ship management cost points” at “condo income” budget – that is off the pricepoint a factor 1000. Running a ship is 80.000 USD a day! Ships are replaced after 15 years of service because they are structurally gone – you can not replace a apartment and declare the real estate gone after 15 years! There is no point in discussing such things in length…
    I think MMK is very much the Tanka model – the competition is Fury (and i can’t see where the MMK as presented now is meeting pricepoints and being attractive and competitive compared to Fury.) We discussed that already here: http://www.seasteading.org/forum-list/topic/big-things-have-small-beginnings-transition-capabilty-key-feature/
    The hog sag stress is a irrelevant problem for a bay based houseboat cluster. There is no such thing like a “Trump approach”. What is different in the Cartagena model is that you CAN work hurricane soft housing models as the bay is Hurricane free (which is a detail of essence) and there is also a clearly different interference situation (another detail of essence) than in Florida. The natural bay features are a lot better suitable (miles and miles of ready availabel development space protected by coral reefs and mangrove barriers) No serious competition with implemented business models to compete with. A driving emerging economy so everything is “going up”. Work costs and material costs are low, but key ready real estate prices are high – so the potential profit margen when creating real estate is high. All these factors are deal makers or deal breakers for a baystead cluster venture success / failure scenario. Projects do not succeed or fail because the floaties have a certain design – they fail or prosper for business reasons…

    #23546
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    You didn’t answer with any numbers for “money – in — money – out” chart. You didn’t do any numbers, except to quote the alleged operating cost of one boat somewhere else, and without knowing what was provided for the $80k/day.
     
    The “Trump approach” i mentioned, which you say does not exist, is getting most money out for money in. If you put 16 residential floors on the lil Fonsceca project, and rented out to 1000 people at $600/month, you’d have $20k per day coming in. If you need $80k per day, then you need four Fonseca projects: making a barge be 330ft/100m on a side, 16floors/160ft/50m tall. That’s numbers, but it’s based off that imaginary $80k number. You need real numbers. No one has the real numbers, do they?
     
    But for $600 a month, for a little 20x20ft apartment (and most of them will be interior windowless), i expect “people mover” walkways, free water taxi, and the roof (2.5 acres) to be used for perks for everyone.

    #23547

    For an investor trained to listen to specific info i probably did…but let’s return to the thread theme…Why oceanic business is the next big thing to come: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/ Baystead real estate is only one aspect, seafood is another: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t55503159/taming-the-blue-frontier/ for oceanic seafood production we can not operate with baysteads we need “bubble living space solutions” that can place a couple of safe and enjoyable livingspace cubic meters in open ocean…starting point “survival pods” http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t57593942/james-bond-rescue-pod-resue-pod-hotel/

    #23548
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