We need some more girls in here!
July 7, 2009 at 1:49 am #994
It occurs that we’re gonna need some females on these here Seasteads, and we don’t have many (if any) around right now.
This raises a huge plethora of questions about the nature of Seasteading, and about the nature of both males and females. But I’m about to go to sleep, so rather than write out this huge list of questions, I’ll leave the topic open for you guys to pipe up.
The one I will ask, however, is “Does anybody have any ideas about how to attract more females to the cause?”.
And I’m sure many of you are thinking this whole topic is a shallow consideration on my part, and honestly, in many ways, it is. But there are important issues to be addressed here as well.
So discuss away…
– NickJuly 7, 2009 at 3:10 am #6866
It isn’t shallow. Women are 50% of the population. It would be a shame if we are missing half the market.
Frankly, I doubt that there is much we can do to attract women at this stage. Women tend (on average!) to value security, comfort, and safety. If you read history books, you’ll find that the frontier has alway been mostly male. (Alaska and Nevada still have the highest ratios of unmarried men to women in the country. The women come along later, once its been made a bit more comfortable.
Though, it occurs to me that if Clubstead happens, there will probably be plenty of cocktail waitresses.July 7, 2009 at 12:14 pm #6868
It is a relevant question, id say. Having an active community is important, and lots of human interaction is driven by ‘intra-sexual motives’.
I certainly hope we do better than, say, libertarianism.
Not being overly geeky/radical should help with that. You dont have to be an wild-eyed goldbug to be interested in seasteading. It raises many interesting quesitons and possibilities, a lot of them centering on social structures.July 7, 2009 at 3:32 pm #6875
This’ll get both guys and gals. Sell it like you can sell a cruise ship, and the “I’m on a boat” crowd will come. Plus, the whole gardening aspect of growing your own food should appeal to some of the ladyfolk. The problem isn’t just getting fans; it’s getting productive fans who are willing to take a little hardship in order to live as they see fit. Chicks who just want to tan all day won’t really be of much use. The idea of starting a new social system might attract feminists interested in replicating the Amazons of Greek myth. But, as you say, pioneering tends to attract males. One way around it: Get married on land, then move to the boat and bring her with you.
Hope this helps.July 8, 2009 at 3:00 am #6880
….One way around it: Get married on land, then move to the boat and bring her with you….
That plan could backfire, though. You could very well end up ‘chained’ to land, instead of becoming a “seasteader +1”. An otherwise willing and able pioneer could end up staying home because a new spouse just isn’t willing to go and won’t be convinced by any means. It wouldn’t be worth getting a divorce over if the they were worth marrying in the first place. Besides, big life altering dreams like that are something you should be talking about before you get married. haha.
I guess it also depends on your vision of a seastead wether or not a ‘non-productive’ fan of sun tanning would be a good addtion or not. Those who wish to telecommute or run entertainment venues and do none of the maintenance or food gathering work themselves (food shipments instead of gardening) might not care so much. Especially those who plan to make millions writing computer programs, or whatever.July 8, 2009 at 3:49 pm #6884
The marriage plan might backfire. I was thinking it’d be something discussed pre-wedding, but good point. Also, tanning’s not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it’s a decent selling point. I’d forgotten the need for customers. And they look nice.July 8, 2009 at 7:37 pm #6887
There are plenty of girls interested in the ideas behind seasteading (greater civil liberties, greater economic liberties, omg-I-get-to-live-on-a-badass-island, etc). So why aren’t there more girls? I don’t know, but I’ll tell more of my lady friends about SI. After all, I couldn’t stand living on an island with only boys 😛
Maybe it’s because more guys than girls screw around online, making friends with the sort of people who would eventually lead them to seasteading. Try talking about it more in AFK conversation, but only if you’re prepared to look a little weird at first. Or just be patient. A few CNN interviews from now, “seasteading” will be a household word.
I’m sure that when it comes time to actually move to the seasteads, the entire world will be aware of it. Getting more males or females will be no problem.July 8, 2009 at 9:33 pm #6888Parijata wrote:
There are plenty of girls interested in the ideas behind seasteading (greater civil liberties, greater economic liberties, omg-I-get-to-live-on-a-badass-island, etc).
I presume you live in america, with its distinct anarchic tradition. Here in the peoples’ republic of the netherlands, you can find some libertarian sentiments online, but I am infact the only person in my social circle with libertarian inclinations. It could be me, but i dont think it is. I dont think I know anyone who had even heard of the word libertarian before i brought it up.
Maybe it’s because more guys than girls screw around online, making friends with the sort of people who would eventually lead them to seasteading. Try talking about it more in AFK conversation, but only if you’re prepared to look a little weird at first.
Of the two persons that were interested enough to engage in serious argument about seasteading, one was a girl. So you might well have a point there: the internet is male biased i suppose.
Or just be patient. A few CNN interviews from now, “seasteading” will be a household word. I’m sure that when it comes time to actually move to the seasteads, the entire world will be aware of it. Getting more males or females will be no problem.
I hope thats true. In math/physics/computers/engineering, there is certainly no abbundance of females. Now luckily the world is larger than your studies, but I have always found a strong negative correlation between gender-homogenity and social activity. You arnt as likely to invest socially in a group of people if it all your gender. The dynamic of an all-guy student association for instance, is a very weak one, in my experience.
It would be a really bad thing if seasteading turned into a bunch of frustrated guys that no women would any longer dare get involved with.July 8, 2009 at 10:07 pm #6891
Oh, and Cantor is a hack. Ask Aristotle. Finitism, fuck yeah!
I just found out today, that opposition to Cantor is listed on a website called ‘crank.net’ http://www.crank.net/cantor.html
Listed amongst such subjects as graincircles, and biblical codes. Wow. The guy countering refutations of Cantor is not wrong: he is not even wrong. What part of ‘self-refuting’ is it that these people do not understand?
Is it just me, or is aristotle the only person, now and in history, who was not horribly confused on why it is that Cantor is a hack? Appearently, it is in need of some repetition.
Andis a way better philosopher than Russell.
That will be all the frustrated geekery for now…July 9, 2009 at 2:18 am #6896
Hrm, the only one of those names I’ve ever heard is Aristotle, and I don’t actually know what he did.
I think the male-biased internet is a big part of the problem, but even on gaming websites (a male-biased pasttime) the female concentration is alot higher (1 in 20 or so).
– NickJuly 9, 2009 at 8:49 am #6901thief wrote:
Hrm, the only one of those names I’ve ever heard is Aristotle, and I don’t actually know what he did.
He said some very sensible things that most mathematicians nowadays dont like to hear:
Infinity turns out to be the opposite of what people say it is. It is not ‘that which has nothing beyond itself’ that is infinite, but ‘that which always has something beyond itself’.
Still right on the money, two millenia later.
Anyway, sorry for the OT nonsense
I noticed Parijata has an interest in such matters, and i thought that was amusing, as thats another thing I like to rant about while other people give me funny looks.
So lets get this straight: you are a woman, you care about liberty, you care about philosophy of science, and you think Plato is an asshole?
Will you marry me?
Just kidding; that kind of obsessing over someone-not-having-a-penis is exactly what drives women away from programming forums and other male-centric places on the internet. ‘why dont you go cook’ or ‘will you marry me’, or variants thereof, both get old equally fast, i can imagine.
I wont go and moderate pro-actively, but if anyone comes to me with complaints of that nature, i will take them very serious.July 9, 2009 at 6:48 pm #6908
It occurs to me: If you want to promote the idea of a certain type of people attending an event, maybe you should hire people to run arount as that type of person. For instance, the Texas Renessance Festival sometimes hires people to run around in dresses or armor or other neat outfits to facillitate the general public’s enjoyment of the activities (and, probably, loosen their wallets). So, if it turns out that a seastead has mostly guys and needs more people for business or living, the owner of that platform can probably hire women to run around and portray the ‘stead as a luxurious paradise. Is it cheating? Sure. Could it work? Maybe.
Hope it helps.July 9, 2009 at 11:16 pm #6917
If “gathering booth babes” ever pops up under volounteering, count me in! :p
I’m quite confident we could get a lot of people, men and women, by tapping into communiies based around cooperative farming, survivalism and Ayn Rand fanclubs.July 10, 2009 at 11:54 am #6925
I think seasteading needs more people in general. I don’t care so much about what if any collectives/races/genders they belong to (or not).July 14, 2009 at 6:35 am #6988
Just get yourself one of these [NSFW] : http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/oooooh/honey-doll-has-touch-sensors-moans-has-fake-orgasms-288234.php
[Commence flaming and accusations of sexism]
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