Viva la revolution!
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| Author | Posts |
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| Author | Posts |
| September 15, 2010 at 11:46 pm #11356 | |
 wohl1917 | I stand ready to answer your questions. |
| September 16, 2010 at 1:08 pm #11363 | |
 Pastor_Jason | A few things to consider in light of Ocean’s post above: If you are a US citizen you have to pay taxes on your income from anywhere unless you renounce your citizenship. In order to give up your citizenship you need to be a citizen somewhere else. If our vessels do not carry a flag of a recognized country then all other vessels may board us as a matter of international law. I want to defend myself against pirates, I don’t want to have to defend my stead from every coast guard in the world. Last but not least, the upkeep and costs of operating with a small group on a frontier easily outweigh the amount of money you are currently paying in taxes. Either way you look at it, there is a cost you will pay. At least in the ‘political mess’ here on land we reap some tremendous benefits from those taxes we pay. It’s important to board a seastead with your eyes wide open. It’s not a panacea for all ills. If anything it will be more difficult than your current circumstances in every way. Live Well! -Jason |
| September 16, 2010 at 4:24 pm #11366 | |
 OceanPhoenix | Ah, but I am not a US citizen. Anyway, I found this on a US government website: B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. A lot of countries wont care (I would think) and there are so many ways you could blackmail them. For instance, many countries hold their independence as a thing of pride. Tell the press that the government is being hypocritical, that they are preaching independence while crushing it behind the public’s back. It could create a political scandal, and would at the same time make the public sympathetic to our cause. “Fortis cadere, cedere non potest” “A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield” -Latin Proverb |
| September 17, 2010 at 6:02 am #11372 | |
 Farmer | The provision quoted does not say anything about professing citizenship of some other country it just says you cannot do it from inside the U.S. Even if it is a two-step process (go from U.S. citizen to citizen of Fillintheblankistan and from there renounce Fillintheblankistan) I can’t believe there is no way to end up nationless. Regarding taxes: if I do business in the currency of an unrecognized country then how could the IRS claim I earned anything? Huge underground economies exist inside every country on earth despite law enforcement’s best efforts and there is very little motivation for chasing us down. We ain’t selling crack to their kids. Of course it is also possible to use a different name, like many of us do here. |
| September 18, 2010 at 3:51 am #11374 | |
 Ken Sims | Farmer wrote:
The IRS requires that taxes be paid on income from illegal activities, so why would they care that a country is unrecognized when it comes to taxable income??? |
| September 20, 2010 at 5:01 pm #11384 | |
| OceanPhoenix | Despite what many governments may want, it is a free world and there is always a way of escaping your bonds (taxes, in this case). As long as we can renounce our ties to our countries, we can do what we want. Tell me, can the tax man get at you if you are no longer under his employer’s control? Probably not. “Fortis cadere, cedere non potest” “A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield” -Latin Proverb |
| September 21, 2010 at 5:18 am #11387 | |
| Ken Sims | OceanPhoenix wrote:
You just better not have any visible assets in the U.S., or in any countries which the U.S. can “persuade” to cooperate. |
| September 21, 2010 at 6:57 am #11388 | |
 tusavision | OceanPhoenix wrote: Despite what many governments may want, it is a free world and there is always a way of escaping your bonds (taxes, in this case). As long as we can renounce our ties to our countries, we can do what we want. Tell me, can the tax man get at you if you are no longer under his employer’s control? Probably not. “Fortis cadere, cedere non potest” “A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield” -Latin Proverb It would become an issue of money laundering and keeping the foreign earned income untraceable in nature. There’s a reason why the brothers in the movie “Defiance” were unaffected while everyone else was struggling: they were already accustomed to living off the record. It’s a whole nother culture turning your back on customer rewards cards, above the table jobs, and plastic money. |
| October 8, 2010 at 4:47 pm #11486 | |
 Altaica | OceanPhoenix wrote: Ah, but I am not a US citizen. Anyway, I found this on a US government website: And US law says…. Prev | Next § 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality— (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or (2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or (4) (A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or (5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or (6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or (7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. (b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily. ouk emou alla tou logou akousantas homologein sophon estin hen |
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