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Updates on a previously debated potential seasteading structure.

Home Forums Community General Chat Updates on a previously debated potential seasteading structure.

This topic contains 29 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of spark spark 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 30 total)
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  • #23608
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Ken,

    We rent a 2/2, garage, backyard. We got a super good deal @ $820 and that’s the only reason we are not in a 1/1. We never put the car in the garage since it is full of “stuff”,…the backyard is really nice with a grill, palm trees, orchids, etc, but I maybe spend couple of hours a week there,…If it would be up to me, (and that day is coming :) I would be living on a boat in a marina for $300/mo slip rent.

    That’s $6,000.00/year in the bank. $30,000.00 in 5 years. A down payment to a small seastead,…

    My point is, do we REALLY need so much space, I mean in general? I don’t think so… After all, there are billions on this planet living in a 10′ x 10′ shack,…

    Kat,

    I do agree w/you that there are a lots of catch 22’s for a cheap seasteading community start up. I like the incubator idea. But, we had some conversations here few years ago on a similar subject and there was a SOBIZ (Seasteading Outpost Belize) sort of project that would have acted like the incubator you talk about, located on an island in the Belize Reef. The idea was to run some sort of business there and also build seasteading modules. It didn’t happen…

    Now, I think the question is rather WHAT than HOW. For example, The MMK was conceived as a business to start with. Later on, I did switch the concept to a nonprofit that will built a base of ocean habitation enthusiasts around The MMK and eventually this group will decide to build a small floating community based on The MMK experience. All this on hold, again, due to other projects that popped in my life,…But The MMk was not intended to be lived aboard as a seastead… It was conceived as a “vehicle” that would take us seasteading,…

    So, if now we are talking about a Small Seasteading Community, we have to first define WHAT it is in order to determine HOW we can build it.

    Is it just a one time gig, lets say a small floating island moored in protected waters with up to 25 residents and that’s about it? Or is it a start up of a long process of ocean colonization that will transcend our generation and generations to come? If it’s the first one it’s one think and if the second, a totally different one,…

    Is it a business or residential only and people just commute on shore for work? Or both?

    Do we want to start building a floating platform right away or we start cheaper on houseboats?

    Do we “build” a community of interested people and organize first or we play it as it comes?

    #23609
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Hi;

    I would be really interested where and how to moor a boat for free in Florida.
    Else I would me also really interested about how to live on the hook.

    This would be a start for me. I am planning to build more.

    #23610
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Else I would be also really interested …

    #23611
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I have you both beat on house: 2/1.5, but 3000 sq ft, 12ft/16ft ceiling in top floor 24×50 greatroom, back deck 18ft off the ground, 24×32 roof deck, dozens of miles of view, and cellar, on 12 acres with running water, and it’s all paid off. But i am not looking for that in a seastead. I am welding deck to be 15x16ft for each launching, if i am lucky i can get three such spaces launched in calm water, and then sell this place and improve my seastead space. And the sooner, the better.
     
    Ocean, i suspect it’s got to be a mix of business and residential, simply because people need to have income, they want to buy toys, and keep the seastead habitable. Living on the seastead, and working on land or on/in water. But i don’t know what people want, or what they will settle for in a starter situation. Gotta have internet.
     
    Houseboats are interesting, same way buying a mobile home trailer is interesting. Done that. Plunk lots of money down, and the house is there. But it’s a lot of money for less house. And it’s got to be in calm water, which is in short supply if a hurricane comes. Most every boat in shallow water will be damaged, sunk, or beached. But there’s some security in numbers, if you park 10 houseboats in a secluded cove somewhere, all the toys will be stolen the first time everyone leaves.
     
    A platform 10 feet in the air won’t look so easy to steal from, but if it’s tall then it also must be deep. Deep means farther from shore, less easy to commute to work on land. But when you can calmly sip your tea as 10ft waves roll harmlessly between the legs under your deck, you’ll prolly be happier.
     
    Either way, i suspect interested people want to see it working, see the bugs are worked out, see hard numbers on everything (upfront buy-in/lease costs, maintenance, supplying, travel, protection, storm livability, etc). Even if you don’t have their floatie built, if it’s built by the same people that built your floatie, it’s less of a stretch for them to see themselves on it. Knowing it’s possible is the first step. Showing them good reasons why, that is your job. A rental floatie for prospective buyers/leasers would help.
     
    Steel floaties are easy to make, and prolly easiest to get state paperwork on, just because they have seen it before. I figure if i make one barely big enough to live on, plus a space big enough to build another floatie on, i can not only duplicate my floating space without paying marina fees, i can play with making cement floaties too. But i want the stability of the Fonseca barge, or better, and that means staying out of the wave zone. I guess that’s the big thing sitting between us. I want to sink the concrete weight and floatation below the waves, and raise the living space above them. I don’t need waves, i just need water. It’s about the same cost, and if you can tolerate being some distance from land, i believe it will be a far more stable seastead.
     
    One reason the ~16x16ft (or 20x20ft) space works is it’s a common steel size. Make them all the same size makes getting titles for them easier (“Hey guys, yep, i built another one, haha!”). Why it would be a start for everyone (except Ken) is the submerged base of a super stable town can be built piece-at-a-time, as the concrete sets up, as there’s space to work the steel. I don’t see a way a startup at sea can built more startup at sea quickly, but it can steadily. Once a wide enough base is in, those 16×16 marginally floating spaces can be brought over and lifted up on stilts on the submerged base. Ken could move out more than one 16×16 (or 20×20) though, or stack them. The base can be expanded, allowing some slow movement between platforms on the same base. It’s simple if you think of cheap concrete floaties, good for 3 tons float each, added as needed to the bottom of deep legs (there’s space down there, it’s a whole mile to the bottom). But you’d be asking for trouble in shallows like the Keys or Cay Sal Bank, or even the near-shore half of the shelf off west Fla. I have not seen 20ft of storm surge between islands, but i have seen NOAA satpics of the damage when Bahamas islands been overtopped (and i drove down to see Dauphin Island split in two), and seen wrecked boats piled up in the ICW from surge. But, i don’t know what reason to give anyone for living on deep water, simply because no one is doing it, yet.
     
    But i dunno. People may want to be 100ft, or 300ft, or 1000ft away from others. And 100ft from a beach or out of sight of land. They may want to be here for a month, then there for some months, and then elsewhere, and then somewhere new. I cannot figure you and i (and anyone interested now) can perform a shotgun approach to all the possibilities. The best compromise i can come up with is a MMK that can be lifted out of the wave zone on a deep water seastead situation, if that MMK owner wants to float out to deep water for a week or a month or whatever. Or Aeolius can barge out some shipping containers to live in for however long that’s interesting. Maybe we all decide to drift out past DS and FP tower, past Bermuda, swing by the Canary Islands, whatever. All i can say for 100% right now is: i am working steel to make something happen.

    #23612
    Profile photo of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster

    Well, that pretty much sank my hopes again. I am guessing Ken is not going to settle for a basic 16x16ft to start off this endeavor. We’d need gated, covered, and guarded space on land for the Maserati too, i spose? Volvo S90? AAARRRGGGG.

     
    Kat, please stop putting words in my mouth.
     
    You are correct that I’m not going to settle for 16x16ft, but I wouldn’t expect to have nearly as big of a unit as I have now. Nor would it need to be gated or have a garage. I was just pointing that I do get a fair amount for my $1295.
     
    And my car happens to be a 1996 two-door Honda Civic DX.

    #23617
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Kat,

    If you have water you will have waves, lol, can’t separate…

    If you want the “stability” of the Fonseca platform or better you should be prepared to pay $2000/sq.ft. ’cause that’s how much it will cost you for the finished product. Also keep in mind that there is nothing exceptional about the stability of the Fonseca platform. It is a square, and in reality it’s stability is poor. Also, as I mentioned before, my opinion is that the height of the platform CANNOT BE only 5 m but at least 10 m. That will make it more expensive,…

    Also keep in mind that I am ONLY talking about floating structures here. The moment your start building any floating structure from scratch you should say good bye to “cheap”. If you want cheap and small the only way to go is houseboats and floating docks around them and moored in protected waters. The bottom line is like this:

    In a community type situation where, lets say at least 10 people get together and purchase a 100′ houseboat and build floats around it, it will cost at least $20-25,000.00/person.

    If individual seasteading modules (MMK type, lets say, with a 35’x 12′ houseboat there and floats around it) at least $30-35,000.00 DIY.

    #23620
    Profile photo of Aeolius
    Aeolius
    Participant

    It looks like the “Where is Orlova” folks have all but given up. I guess we won’t be seasteading on a derelict ocean liner, then.

    http://whereisorlova.com

    #23621
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    If you want a used hull, several assorted shapes go down to the bottom every year. If you can raise them soon enough, some of the machinery may still be recoverable. The electronics will be scrap.

    #23622
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Ocean, lets play a thought experiment, and at the end, you can tell me where i went wrong, ok? Because i cannot figure where you are coming from on this. Lets buy two identical $5,000 pontoon boats off ebay, and put one of them under a crane next to a dock. We cut the deck off the pontoons, lift the deck up 20ft, and insert $400 worth of standard steel structural tubing, reconnecting the pontoons to the deck, which is now 20ft up in the air. Add a $200 for a little cross bracing. Have the crane pick it up and put it in the water. Now, we go out where the water is 30ft deep, and we add water to the pontoons in a detailed and controlled fashion, so the deck stays level, and as the deck gets lower to the water we stop the water flow into the pontoons and add some air. We get lucky and the deck is now sitting up 5ft above the water, and we put a $5 AVR computer chip in control of the air and water valves. We bring the other pontoon boat alongside. We pay some guys in a couple 30ft cabin cruisers to make as much waves at the two pontoon boats as they possibly can.
     
    Are you seriously going to tell me both pontoons boats are going to act the same now? Are both boats equally unstable in the waves? Are you going to try and convince me the $600 spent in adding the legs to the one pontoon boat had no effect and it is expensive? Because i think you will be unable to stand on the unmodified pontoon boat, and the pontoon boat with 20ft legs will act like there’s no waves.
     
    Basically, i believe the waves are in one place on the ocean, and most of the water is somewhere else. If 99% of the boat is not where the waves are, i think it will be stable, and not have 10m tall concrete sides.

    #23623
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    OK,…Also if you put wings on a pontoon it could fly.

    Let’s not play anything. You don’t have to prove nothing to me. Just buy the 2 $5000 pontoons and refit them as you want. I wasn’t trying to convince you of anything. I never mentioned pontoons. I never wanted to cut no deck of no boat. I never wanted to lift no deck 20 ft in the air and add whatever tubing to the whole thing.

    If you believe that “….the waves are in one place on the ocean, and most of the water is somewhere else.” you should be deemed mentally unfitted for seasteading. Do you listen to yourself? How in the hell 99% of the boat “cannot be where the waves are” if it’s fucking floating??? Which part of “If you have water you will have waves, lol, can’t separate…” statement was an intellectual challenge to you??

    There is nothing “stable” on the water! It’s freacking water!

    #23625
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    It’s easy, Ocean, the waves are on top of the water. Have you never been diving? Have you never heard of semisubmersibles? Have you never heard of heave plates?
     
    Nevermind, don’t bother answering, you believe i am “mentally unfitted for seasteading”, i’m not reading any more, i’m gone.

    #23634
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Kat,

    I do apologize for that comment…

    #23641
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Anonymous
    I won’t be on the Diamond Shoals unless it’s a hostile takeover, simply because there’s no way to get in touch with the owner, so one cannot get permission to be on it. I wonder if a private owner of non-boat property that’s not in a state jurisdiction can enforce trespassing laws.

    spark
    On June-02-2014 I ‘got in touch’ with the owner of Diamond Shoals Light Tower.

    #23642
    Profile photo of Aeolius
    Aeolius
    Participant

    Odd. I have tried e-mailing and calling the guy for years with no response.

    #23643
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant
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