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Updates on a previously debated potential seasteading structure.

Home Forums Community General Chat Updates on a previously debated potential seasteading structure.

This topic contains 29 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of spark spark 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 30 total)
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  • #23588
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I do remember when this one was on the market,…It looks like somebody did turn it into something really nice, moored 15 nm offshore from the Florida’s west coast and flying a Bolivian flag (lol).

    http://www.travelchannel.com/video/fishermans-paradise

    #23589
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Ok, are they seasteading?

    #23590
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Hell ya they do. They have a “seastead” 15 nm offshore and they have a business on it. It might not be perfect for some, but so far it’s the closest to what seasteading should look like.

    Will you be seasteading on the rusty Diamond Shoal tower?

    #23591
    Avatar of spark
    spark
    Participant

    The transatlantic barge is nice. I wish I had one.
    The Diamond Shoal tower is nice too. Tower would be OK too.

    #23592
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    I won’t be on the Diamond Shoals unless it’s a hostile takeover, simply because there’s no way to get in touch with the owner, so one cannot get permission to be on it. I wonder if a private owner of non-boat property that’s not in a state jurisdiction can enforce trespassing laws.
     
    Didn’t Ellmer say they’d need to charge $1000′s per nite per room on that barge to break even? Since it’s flagged outside the usa, won’t usa laws apply about how long they can stay per year in usa waters, and where they can compete with usa businesses?

    #23596
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    They are charging $550/night. They are moored 15 nm offshore, outside the US territorial waters so I guess they can stay there as long as they want. There is no such similar US business, or at least around Florida, that I know about.

    #23598
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    PS. It looks like they were charging $800/night and the business is “closed”? for 2014,…

    http://fishermansparadise.com/

    #23600
    Avatar of Aeolius
    Aeolius
    Participant

    Frying Pan Tower charges $498/person for 3 days/2 nights.
    http://www.fptower.com/reservations.html

    Though if it’s a barge you are looking for, how about an ex-casino:
    http://www.maritimesales.com/LVC10.htm

    Or an ex-Navy dive/salvage barge?
    http://www.maritimesales.com/SGA10.htm

    #23601
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    So if FP rents one room every weekend all year, they have (at most) the cash flow many people have per month, so i imagine that renting a second room covers the expences of both rooms, giving $26k profit (not counting long term expences like paint and elevator chain (and other capital replacements), taxes, promotional costs, etc).
     
    One one paw, that’s enough for some people to live on just fine. But for an investor, that’s $millions in infrastructure (the tower) in exchange for fractions of a percent payback per year.
     
    Leesburg(?), a lil town on a highway in Louisiana 80 miles south of New Orleans, is slowly sinking, the highway was re-routed around it, the BP oil pollution alledgedly killed it’s only industry, so the town’s resturant (with no customers any more) was price-reduced from $1.2million to $850k.
     
    My head is having trouble wrapping around the costs for being on the water vs the payback when charging people to visit. Like $850k for an antiquated resturant with no customers, sinking, 80 miles out, in a swamp. Of course, i have the same problem with house mortgages, which is why i never had a mortgage on my place.
     
    Lets say Ocean is correct about $100k to launch one of his MMK floaties, and lets say a comparable small cottage on a 50x50ft plot on land costs $500/month to rent. Payback of the capital costs of his floatie is 17 years, this is not counting finance charges of the money paid out vs not getting repaid for 16 years, which will more than double the total payback time. Then you must consider that someone who needs to pay as little as $500/month cannot afford the bank’s screening to get into the MMK in the first place.
     
    So lets go with payback of 30 years for capital and interest. I prolly won’t live another 30 years, and i don’t pay a mortgage now. Why would i try to get into a living situation on a boat where i owe someone $500 a month for the rest of my life (plus upkeep costs), die without paying it off, so the original owner gets it back, plus the inconvenience of needing to travel by boat to anything off my front porch? (plus to rent a car or taxi when i get to dockside at the marina)
     
    This is the scenario i cannot see any investor buying into. And with no population of me-types to buy from them, i don’t see any normal business being out there. It’s not a doom-and-gloom thought process, it is running the numbers and seeing reality. Basically, the up-front costs must be drastically lower, financing cannot be normal, and investors must be do-gooder-type angels.
     
    I’d like to see some real-world solutions presented.

    #23602
    Avatar of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster

    I rent an apartment at $1295/month just for the rent (i.e. no utilities or anything else included in that).

    When I retire I’ll find something cheaper because I won’t have my current level of income, but I expect to still be paying well over $500/month. Anything that I could get in this general area for $500/month would either be a shack, be in a really bad neighborhood, or both.

    #23603
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Ken, we are so far apart on an economic basis, it’s a little surprising we speak the same language. It’s no wonder we have different points of view on seasteading. That’s prolly not a bad thing for me though, as i get to think thru the costs of things. For instance, i know i didn’t spend $100 on the tool i made to roll 5ft wide 1/4inch/5mm thick steel plate into 4ft diameter tubes, but you’d haveto spend $10′s of thousands to buy one on ebay. I’m laying out steel now to roll cones from 8ft wide 1/8 plate steel, i simply couldn’t find such a thing for sale at any price. It also cost me under $100 to make a power tool so i could have 4ft rings made of 2x4inch ‘H’ beams. It’s astonishing someone has the gall to charge $1295/month for a place to live. Obviously the costs of normal seasteading are outside my sphere of life.

    #23604
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    To me, the “trick” for small scale seasteading (up to 20-25 seasteaders per structure) to work, is to have everybody involved as a working or silent partners in the business that operates aboard that seastead and, subsequently, also involved the process of governance of that seastead.

    If so, and if such seasteading business is profitable, than the whole notion of “rent”, “utilities”, “shopping for groceries”, “health care”, “retirement planning”, etc. would be just “operating expenditures”. At the end of the day, everybody involved will be living there for “free” and receive a profit sharing check weekly.

    And for those saying that would be “socialism”, you are misinformed. In socialism, all means of productions are owned by the state and there is very little or no private property. On the above, most of the means of production are own by the people and the whole thing it’s mostly private property (other than the public places).

    #23605
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Ocean said:

    If so, and if such seasteading business is profitable, than the whole notion of “rent”, “utilities”, “shopping for groceries”, “health care”, “retirement planning”, etc. would be just “operating expenditures”. At the end of the day, everybody involved will be living there for “free” and receive a profit sharing check weekly.

     
    Sounds like something William Holz would say. I’m not disagreeing, so how does one start such a thing? For instance, i cannot help you with your MMK construction, because i won’t have a place to live and do the actual work there. I expect Aeolious cannot move to contribute unless he carries his whole family with him. My solution was an incubator next to the ocean somewhere. Basically, build floats, put a deck and then a shed on it, live in it, build more, basically keep working till everything is discovered and solved and perfect. Know what sinks, what floats, discover what size people will pay for, how to build it cheaply. Obviously, pouring a Fonseca-sized floatie is out of the question, but a square floatie for 20 people is the 100ft x 100ft ballpark, you and i could make that slab float, if we had a place to pour it. Just a lil math: 20 Kens paying $1200 would buy 188 cu yds of concrete at $127/yd to pour the 100x100ft slab. The next month pour a grid of walls across it, the next month another slab, the next month we sit around and ask how we are going to put it into the water. But how does one get started from nothing?

    #23606
    Avatar of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster

    Note that for my $1295/month, I get a two-story, three-bedroom, two-and-a-half-bathroom apartment with an attached garage in a gated community. And the rent does include maintenance. For example, when my water heater sprung a leak, I called the office and they had it replaced in an hour or so at no charge to me.

    #23607
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Well, that pretty much sank my hopes again. I am guessing Ken is not going to settle for a basic 16x16ft to start off this endeavor. We’d need gated, covered, and guarded space on land for the Maserati too, i spose? Volvo S90? AAARRRGGGG.
     
    I am going back upstairs to ream bearing seats for the new plate roller. Aka “getting my hands dirty”.

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