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UAVs as part of Seasteading Infrastructure

Home Forums Archive Infrastructure UAVs as part of Seasteading Infrastructure

This topic contains 29 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of libertariandoc libertariandoc 4 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 30 total)
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  • #4841
    Avatar of Carl-Pålsson
    Carl-Pålsson
    Participant

    Videos of T-wing tail sitter taking off vertically, converting to horizontal flight and landing vertically. Everything autonomously I believe:

    http://www.aeromech.usyd.edu.au/uav/twing/Video%20Clips.htm

    Another UAV tail sitter:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuujWPY3oj8

    General search:

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=tail+sitter&aq=f

    What is very interesting about this is that once you get the control automation nailed down, and when you don´t need to worry about regulation, you can scale it up. And you don´t need aircraft quality parts, because people´s lives aren´t at stake. So get a used car engine from the scrapyard and some other bits and pieces and you´ll have some serious express cargo capacity at your disposal.

    #4845
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    Jesrad wrote:

    I had seen videos of small fixed wing UAVs that would take off and land “upright” and fly in horizontal, usual plane stance. Too bad I can’t seem to put my hands back on them :(

    My 1.8 year old loves this video so I have it bookmarked. It is an RC airplane that can hover like a helicopter on its prop. Some really amazing flying. Seems reaching out and grabing this plane for a “landing”, or hand launching, would be easy enough.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=qMrUuRL7vBg

    #5002
    Avatar of valro
    valro
    Participant

    seems that concretesubmarine.com has several seastead ideas, plus some good info on using crete in marine projects.

    #5539
    Avatar of KalebN
    KalebN
    Participant

    Seasteading infrastructure will help transporters sub ocean. UAV as one of its form and infrastructures of this would facilitate the travel of any heavy materials. Transportation costs less expensive than a plane, but transportation times are similar.
    Transportation is a great requirement of modern living. No large amount of gas and it get in better and safe cargo. This would help also to save money, however and is a cheap mode of transportation.

    #6834
    Avatar of GoldfishAuthor
    GoldfishAuthor
    Participant

    I like the idea of UAV’s (especially the forever aloft blimp, which excites me to no end) but why not manned craft? It’s not hard to imagine that every seasteader will have some kind of watercraft, and undoubtedly delivery services will crop up in a matter of months with people offering to safely transport things between ‘steads and even to the mainland. The technology is great and would definitely behoove the movement (heh, that rhymes) but it’s sort of putting the cart before the horse. Why focus on high-tech when an outboard motor and a guy named Frank would do just as well? With this you also eliminate the chance of, say, a parcel dropped from a UAV getting blown off course and landing 100 meters out to sea.

    Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

    -Sun Tzu, the Art of War

    #6835
    Avatar of Carl-Pålsson
    Carl-Pålsson
    Participant

    Excellent point. Regular boats will probably do the bulk of the transport duties for seasteads for the nearest future.

    It would be interesting to know how often on average the ocean conditions will be too dangerous for manned boat transports though. I have a hard time seeing a guy in a dingy with an outboard doing transports much longer than a couple of hundred meters or so on the open ocean even when the water is calm.

    What kind of small(ish) boats would be suitable for utility use on the ocean (light transports, taxi service between seasteads, fast transport from/too land)?

    #6836
    Avatar of GoldfishAuthor
    GoldfishAuthor
    Participant

    It seems the system didn’t want to accept my post, haha! But I was going to suggest something like ultralight aircraft? Not much payload capacity but still manned craft that would present less of a chance of a package getting dropped in the ocean due to a glitch or a computing error. Also they could make for fairly effecient travel between other ‘steads! Assuming, of course, a large enough space to land and take off can be built for them.

    Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

    -Sun Tzu, the Art of War

    #6849
    Avatar of Michael-Hawkins
    Michael-Hawkins
    Participant

    I don’t think it would be so difficult to built an autonomous seaplane. It is loaded on shore, GPS coordinates are put in and of she goes. The onboard algorithm avoids turbulence and rough weather as it approaches its target. It lands within a quarter mile of the seastead, where it can be unloaded by people in conventional boats, refueled and reprogrammed to fly back to shore. It lands a couple of hundred yards out from the shore and is tugged back to port.

    All the technology exists, it really isn’t that much of stretch.

    Now, that does leave the cost/effect crunching to be done. Boats would undoubdably be cheaper and easier to maintain, but slower. The endless debate of speed Vs. Latency I guess.

    #6850
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    Michael wrote:

    I don’t think it would be so difficult to built an autonomous seaplane.

    Landing on a bumpy ocean would be the hard part. This is part of why I like just air dropping the cargo. But you could use a parachute to land the whole airplane on the water, and a small catapult to launch it. This would let you refuel and so fly further. Really small UAVs can fly into a net. For sure it could be done. Question is if there is a set of design trade offs and market nitch that would let it make a profit. I think some day, but not early on.

    #6861
    Avatar of Michael-Hawkins
    Michael-Hawkins
    Participant

    One set up a small area of water surrounded by floating wave breakers to provide for a strip of calm water where an aircraft could land.

    #6906
    Avatar of libertariandoc
    libertariandoc
    Participant

    Michael wrote:

    One set up a small area of water surrounded by floating wave breakers to provide for a strip of calm water where an aircraft could land.

    Small floatplanes (Cessna 182 type, 4 passengers or maybe 500 lbs of cargo) take around a thousand feet of water to land and take off (into the wind, also), Bigger float/sea planes took a couple of miles. The modern (turboprop) Canadair CL-415 takes around 2700 feet in ISA (cool air). Thats a big breakwater.

    I think maybe something like a tilt-rotor is a better technology.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I won’t be wronged. I won’t be insulted. I won’t be laid a-hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

    #6907
    Avatar of Eelco
    Eelco
    Participant

    People tend to use boats for travelling on the ocean.

    May i suggest the conservative notion, that there is probably a good reason for this custom?

    #6913
    Avatar of Carl-Pålsson
    Carl-Pålsson
    Participant

    Speed is valuable if you are 200+ nautical miles off shore. Boats will be used for things that can wait, of course.

    The feasibility of landing a float plane on the ocean is an interesting issue. I really don’t know how often this would be possible.

    Helicopters are expensive, and perhaps range-limited. Tilt rotors are both expensive and nonexistant on the market right now and probably won’t be for some years. Chances are the first tilt rotor visiting a seastead will be a V-22 carrying a DEA SWAT team…

    You could try landing a STOL (short take off and landing) plane on a barge perhaps:

    #6933
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    You could try landing a STOL (short take off and landing) plane on a barge perhaps:

    That video is pretty amazing…that thing really goes ballistic! It looks pretty small, though. Doesn’t look like it has much of a cargo capacity.

    Navies have been launching and landing aircraft on “small barges” for a long time…and while aircraft carrier arrestor and catapult systems are much more than we would need I’m sure a small-scale system could be implemented on a small barge.

    I think seaplanes are going to be a vital system for any seastead…both small ones for transporting people back and forth to the mainland and larger ones for rapid cargo transit.

    #6951
    Avatar of libertariandoc
    libertariandoc
    Participant

    That new aircraft carrier is going to use some starting/stopping technologies that might well have application to a seastead. Instead of using massive, steam catapults (unchanged since the first ones right after WWII) they will use an electromagnetic shuttle system to move the aircraft – kind of like a rail gun. Instead of big oil-damped resistive loads for the arrestors they are going to try a similar, regenerative system and recover some of the energy.

    Both would be simpler on a Seastead than the original technology.

    Hmm, rail gun……hmmm

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I won’t be wronged. I won’t be insulted. I won’t be laid a-hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

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