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Submarine Oxygen Supply

Home Forums Archive Infrastructure Submarine Oxygen Supply

This topic contains 28 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of elspru elspru 3 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 29 total)
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  • #1387
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Hey, I wanted sufficient breathing oxygen in my apartment,

    this also applies for having sufficient oxygen in a submarine.

    so after doing much research I found out that on needs either 14.5 trees per person or 5 gallons or 20 liters aquarium with 1kg of algae mass.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071207103947AAKNUHK

    I have a partner and some pets so I decided need at least 60 liters or 15 gallons,

    synchronistically I had picked up a 20 gallon or 72 liter aquarium on the apartment lawn,

    I also got a table from there, got clay, sand, pebbles and rocks for deep-sand-bed from my forest-garden,

    I did have to buy the water-filter, aeration and LED lights, and day-night control-bar totaling about $450

    I got plants from nearby pond, which came with nematodes, snails, worms, hydra’s and all the other creatures of a healthy pond eco-system.

    made a facebook album of the aquarium http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2629568&id=48916657&l=79392f9968

    the LED GlowPanel lights are 28 watts and can grow tomatoes,

    Eheim 8 watt water filter, Rena 3 watt aerator, marineland 150 watt heater.

    so in total that’s 189 watts, though heater is oversized and intermittent, and lights and aerator are only in daytime.

    so that’s 158 watts in night-time. can use renewable energy like solar, wave or wind power to make it fully self-sustaining.

    the equipment is enough for a 40 gallon or 151 liter tank. it’s only been a few days but some of the plants are showing new growth.

    hmmm, the oxygen distribution seemed a bit uneven so I added in a fan to move the air around in the apartment.

    So it’s quite possible with some solar panels or other renewable energy source,

    we could produce all our own oxygen in our submarine seasteads.

    also note it’s best to have at least a third in reserve,

    as if you do physical labour you use more oxygen.

    However we do still need to vent to apartment somemtimes,

    like if my partner uses the toaster oven which gives off a lot of smoke.

    however it’s quite possible to simply bake her sweet potatoes in the pressure cooker, or boil them on the stove..

    i also play music to help the plants grow, nature-sounds, slow, spiritual and such.

    I have some non-aquarium plants, mainly for backup, and aesthetic appeal.

    Also note that plants not only produce oxygen, but also uptake carbon-dioxide and can filter out toxic-chemicals.

    Before I had trouble breathing in my apartment at all, as I live next to a major intersection,

    now if I take a few deep breaths I feel light-headed from excess oxygen. lol, so ya, it’s working.

    #11947

    I reccomend to read on Lloyd Godson and his guiness records about living in incredible small underwater habitats with algea air recycling.

    A interesting theme to create a complete biosphehre in a small living space bubble – i had a project for a submarine voyage in a 370 ton submarine yacht, Jules Verne style, sponsored by a canadian TV chain, with Lloyd a couple of years ago.

    The maker of a new AIP engine would sponsor the project to promote the engine, the TV chain would be secondary sponsor creating a TV series with Lloyd as host.

    Unfortunatly the sponsorship did not materialize and we could not go to “project implementation phase” .

    Submarine living in independent biospheres is definitly not a living style for the aveage seasteader – but the pioneers doing it (for weeks at least) are already among us. Smog in mayor cities may bring us very soon no only to wear filter masks in the streets but to think about creating our own athmosphere in our apartments just as we drink safe water out of a bottle – pioneer work with algea tanks will be very apreciated.

    elspru, your pictures on facebook are great – it shows clearly that the “technical effort” to create life support in a living space bubble is surpisingly low if you go the natural way – great job !

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11977
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    Ever hear of Alon Bodner? He’s an israeli who found a simple answer to the oxygen dilemma when submerged beneath snorkle depth. He developed a technology to free the breathable atmosphere that is present in water (1.5 – 2.5%) of which about a third is oxygen. He uses a centrifuge to lower the pressure, which releases the air from the water. Check out his website if you’re interested. I’m planning on getting one of these units for the sub as a back-up or failsafe.

    http://www.likeafish.biz/

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #11988
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    Ever hear of Alon Bodner? He’s an israeli who found a simple answer to the oxygen dilemma when submerged beneath snorkle depth. He developed a technology to free the breathable atmosphere that is present in water (1.5 – 2.5%) of which about a third is oxygen. He uses a centrifuge to lower the pressure, which releases the air from the water. Check out his website if you’re interested. I’m planning on getting one of these units for the sub as a back-up or failsafe.

    http://www.likeafish.biz/

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080308190036AAOykEz

    #11989
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    Your link shot me to a discussion about whether steam was atmosphere or just the gassification of water (therefore not breathable). I never said that we should make steam. The way the technology Bodner invented works is not a chemical reaction (like splitting the Hydrogen and Oxygen from each other).

    Water contains diffused atmosphere (breathable air, not pure oxygen which would be poisonous). The more pressure the water is under, the more atmosphere it can contain. By artificially lowering the pressure of the water (through a centrifuge), the atmosphere is released and can be siphoned off. The water can simply be returned to the body of water it was drawn from.

    I’ve often wondered if this could be a subsystem of an OTEC power generator, but Bodner’s technology stands on it’s own merit.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #11990
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080308190036AAOykEz

    Your link shot me to a discussion about whether steam was atmosphere or just the gassification of water (therefore not breathable). I never said that we should make steam. The way the technology Bodner invented works is not a chemical reaction (like splitting the Hydrogen and Oxygen from each other).

    Water contains diffused atmosphere (breathable air, not pure oxygen which would be poisonous). The more pressure the water is under, the more atmosphere it can contain. By artificially lowering the pressure of the water (through a centrifuge), the atmosphere is released and can be siphoned off. The water can simply be returned to the body of water it was drawn from.

    I’ve often wondered if this could be a subsystem of an OTEC power generator, but Bodner’s technology stands on it’s own merit.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    [/quote]

    I was thinking that this kind of system would have most application in the deeper parts of the ocean,

    since the water is already under pressure, and simply taking any and letting it naturally expand under 1ATM will produce oxygen.

    Though there may be other gases there as well, and I’m not sure how evenly mixed the oxygen in the ocean is.

    Having an aquarium is the most reliable method in terms of having safe and well filtered air,

    especially consider the ease with which you can check the health of your life-support system

    if the plants are growing healthy and strong,

    then your air is quite likely doing well.

    I’ve done some chatting on the aquarium forums,

    seems like I got a lot more equipment than I needed.

    actually it seems like the heater and water-filter were extraneous.

    so the only electrical parts necessary are the lights and aerator.

    which only need to be used in the daytime,

    which is 28+3 watts, so about 32 watts.

    my aerator cost me $32 but it’s twice the power I need,

    some made-in-china LED manufacturers contacted me saying they have cheaper grow lights,

    8watt 600 lumens for $28, 50 watt, 1800Lumens for $98, 100 watt, 3400 Lumens for $140

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #11991
    Profile photo of TheTimPotter
    TheTimPotter
    Participant

    elspru, I just realized that I have some lights and an aquarium pump. It sounds like all I need is an air stone and a tank.

    Where did you get the algae cultures?

    #11992
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    The ‘atmosphere’ that is diffused within water is just that… it’s breathable air… the same thing you are inhaling right now. The perfect mix.

    #11993
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    The ‘atmosphere’ that is diffused within water is just that… it’s breathable air… the same thing you are inhaling right now. The perfect mix.

    What if you happen to be in a warm part of the ocean, which has lower oxygen concentration,

    or a place suffering from apoxia, such as after a nitrogen induced plankton bloom,

    or how about if you pass by some hydro-thermal vents.

    fish have gills, but they are predators.

    at first in the ocean there were blue-green-algae or plants.

    it’s quite likely that the first seasteads will also be plants/seasteads producing products.

    only later when there is plant-matter in abundance, can we could sustain predatory animals/seasteads.

    Cyanobacteria have concentric rings of gardens,

    with solar harvesters to convert light to optimal photosynthetic wavelengths.

    Our garden can prodcuce not only oxygen but also food for us.

    I regularly eat the water-lentils or duckweed that grow on the top,

    recently I also got watercress from nearby marsh.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #11996
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    TheTimPotter wrote:

    elspru, I just realized that I have some lights and an aquarium pump. It sounds like all I need is an air stone and a tank.

    Where did you get the algae cultures?

    Algae is naturally occuring in almost every body of water that is exposed to the sky. That green gunk that grows in the bird-baths and rain barrels is algae…

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #11999
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    TheTimPotter wrote:

    elspru, I just realized that I have some lights and an aquarium pump.

    It sounds like all I need is an air stone and a tank.

    Aye. Yep I heard someone got pre-cut glass, glued it together with silicone, an put a frame on it.

    So there are many ways of getting or making a tank.

    Where did you get the algae cultures?

    I got them from the same place as the plants, from the pond.

    The algae was actually growing on the plants in the pond,

    it’s possible there aren’t enough algae eaters there.

    Though there are a variety of snails,

    and I saw some dark long fish.

    Only one variety of plant was susceptible to the algae,

    I had the thought it might offer some protection in winter.

    Thanks for posting on the forums,

    your participation is appreciated.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12000
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    J.L. wrote:

    TheTimPotter wrote:

    elspru, I just realized that I have some lights and an aquarium pump. It sounds like all I need is an air stone and a tank.

    Where did you get the algae cultures?

    Algae is naturally occuring in almost every body of water that is exposed to the sky. That green gunk

    [/quote]

    There are alternative more loving adjectives that are more suitable for someone interested in Seasteading.

    Algae comes in many forms and many shapes, some seem to classify any underwater “plant” an algae, even kelp forests, which are a brown algae.

    Freshwater algae’s are typically green. In the ocean red algae are some of the most common, along with brown and some green, of course some form rock-growths we know as coral.

    that grows in the bird-baths and rain barrels is algae…

    yes, the birds typically get it from ponds.

    Birds are some of the best gardners on the planet,

    there is much we can learn from them.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Exactly! even algae.

    Though it’s a good idea to get a positive identification first,

    to make sure that it is an edible variety,

    watercress is a common edible aquatic plant,

    plants are descendents of algae.

    Yes though Algae cultures like Spirulina,

    I’m quite curious myself where to get,

    maybe could get some at a university *shrugs*.

    If you find out,

    be sure to let us know.

    Your contributions are welcome.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12004
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    I think the algae thing is pretty cool but am always seeking contingency plans which don’t leave me totally dependant on living organisms.

    That in mind, there are some interesting technologies available to you. Liquid nitrogen can be manufactured using a heat exchanger(car radiator) to wick heat away from a compressed air cylinder. Repeat expansion and compression of this gas can eventually boot strap it’s way to liquid temperatures. You can blow your cold gas on to the hose/pipe carrying it to the nozzle and you get a regenerative effect where the gases own expansion is pre-cooling the gas in the process of being expanded.

    Do a search for “DIY liquid nitrogen” and you’ll get some hits. This same liquid nitrogen can be used to condense pure oxygen through a device that resembles a still. “DIY liquid oxygen”

    It stands to reason that you could use these two liquids to cryogenically freeze carbon dioxide out of the air. A cryogenic rebreather.

    This of course is all absurdly dangerous, much more so than the risk of suffocation from lack of algae. That said, I’m curious how much Co2 would collect on a car radiator which had liquid nitrogen pumped through it. Would some of this snow actually be oxygen? Could the process be used as a form of fractional crystalation?

    How fast would you die from the evaporating nitrogen poisoning your atmosphere?

    #12009
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Nitrogen could thin your atmosphere enough to cause a situation like CO poisoning… Not enough Oxygen is more lethal than too much…

    Making dry ice is relatively simple. It takes 3 stage compression and cooling, with rapid expansion into a chamber, for it to ‘snow’… The CO2 content of the gases from a Methane digester is high enough to make it feasible and bricks of dry ice can be used for refridgeration, in an old-style ice-box, if the atmospere is vented enough to prevent suffocation…

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #12552
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    tusavision wrote:

    I think the algae thing is pretty cool but am always seeking contingency plans which don’t leave me totally dependant on living organisms.

    are you saying you’d prefer to relly on mechanical organisms that have no way of healing or reproducing?

    J.L. wrote:

    Nitrogen could thin your atmosphere enough to cause a situation like CO poisoning… Not enough Oxygen is more lethal than too much…

    Making dry ice is relatively simple. It takes 3 stage compression and cooling, with rapid expansion into a chamber, for it to ‘snow’… The CO2 content of the gases from a Methane digester is high enough to make it feasible and bricks of dry ice can be used for refridgeration, in an old-style ice-box, if the atmospere is vented enough to prevent suffocation…

    Ya, your comments certainly aren’t very comforting, considering the possiblity of suffocation.

    Anyhow, if I had so many compression chambers available, I’d probably be making aerogel or some such.

    I’m planning to use stirling-engine heat-pumps for cooling of fridge, freezer and such.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

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