steasteading pioneer starter kit – TSI to supply it – to optimize it
June 6, 2011 at 7:31 pm #13697sda1950 wrote:
Why don’t you post a for sale notice here and see what happens.
Steve, i can not sell small floats internationally, and i doubth that this forum is a channel that is used by many potential customers for floating real estate in the bay of cartagena where i am situated now. Seasteading is at least in the beginning when the floats are still small and low mobility a completly local business.
My plan for scale up is more or less described in the picture series below…
concretesubmarine.comJune 6, 2011 at 8:32 pm #13730
Ken SimsKeymasterOCEANOPOLIS wrote:
By the way,…where is Pastor_Jason nowadays? Is anybody still keeping in touch with him?
The best I can figure, he went to that big seastead in the sky.
Not only did he disappear from the forums (and has not logged into the TSI website at all), he also disappeared from our private discussion group.
I emailed him at two different email addresses but got no response.June 6, 2011 at 9:21 pm #13732
Ken, …the seastead in the sky,….
Will, if some people are stuck somewhere, how can they be pretending that they want to try seasteading, which automatically implies relocation on a seastead, on the water ?June 7, 2011 at 12:29 am #13736
But investing implies risk. No matter how good of a plan, there will still be variables acting beyond our control. And lets be honest, seasteading is and will be high risk, no matter what and when. Transferring people on a caye in Belize 10 miles offshore is “less risky” then transferring the same people on a seastead 10 miles offshore. But “less risky” here means actually nothing,.. We are still operating in the same high risk area. Somehow, I have the feeling that no matter what, seasteading will be a Leap of Faith, IMHO.June 7, 2011 at 12:37 am #13738
*cheering for this groups success (from the sidelines)
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”June 7, 2011 at 2:04 pm #13747
I have suggested 3 seasteading starter solutions on this thread so far:
The catamaran float is a great solution for a mobile project, the plate would do great as a beerstead, the real estate if you are in a industrial area and can get the interest of a local land based real estate developer. It all depends on your personal local mix of project development factors which solution is “best”…
I will paint in detail the further solutions for a start up i have in mind – among those the “turn key floating house”, the “captain nemo float out”, the “exotic submerged bubble hotel” , etc…
concretesubmarine.comJune 7, 2011 at 2:05 pm #13728
In general it might create a better ambient for making seasteading a reality if we keep politics low and crank out practical solutions high in the start up approach…
The reason why the approach “lets pick a spot on the map and do it there” did not work, is that people do have lifes that are economically and socially connected to a spot, one thing is to go for vacations – another to give up your local support base.
If a company wants to have a manager in another country it has to pay a “transfer package” that allows the man to live while he sets roots in new territory. The personal financial, and social cost of such a transfer is high.
It is probably not something that you would do “upfront” just to get dropped with a bag and a short budget on a beach to be left alone with the task to cranc something out.
This would leave you way to vulnerable to all kind of unpredictable interference to give you a realistic chance to success.
On the other hand if Sir Richard Branson gives us a beach on necker island and a back up package i am in…
Ready to lauch the most incredible floating ocean colonizing tourism project you can imagine. As long as a “matrix provider” like seasteading inc. who can provide transfer packages to “seasteading managers” does not exist, i am obviously allone with my effort – and my best shot to cranc something out, the press will talk about, is cooperating in a local float out project where i live just now…
concretesubmarine.comJune 7, 2011 at 2:06 pm #13733
I would not speak of “stuck somewhere” i only speak of frames that allow or do not allow a certain margin of manouver – it was my general impression that a “margen of manouver” of 5000 USD/ month for a building site was a thing we could not put together.
While this is so i would not even think about transferring people and lives to a secluded beach in the caribbean – for doing so – and have a chance to build a project we would certainly need project budget frames much superior to that.
The idea is good if somebody who has a “serious margen of manouver in terms of finance” stands behind it. For a below 5000/month budget frame a local beerstead is probably a much more apropiate project start up choice.
I am a big fan of the evolutionary approach over the blind leap of faith approach. When i do a project i tend to move it a inch a day towards the finish line in a continous process.
concretesubmarine.comJune 11, 2011 at 2:06 pm #13799
Until now we had the following seasteading start up suggestions:
Let me continue to propose the “captain nemo float out” it is basicly building a “better yacht” that can stay in open ocean for long periods of time.
Yachts can not stay in open ocean for long periods of time as the wave action makes staying there quite uncomfortable.
Yachts are also built from materials that impose “light building” as principal design feature. This goes bad with basic seasteading needs like big tank volumes and store of big amounts of goods like food, spare parts, tools, fuel, water and similar.
In general a yacht is built for living in a marina and make short trips of no more than a few days crossing open water in favorable weather conditions.
We propose (and already tested) a vehicle that is the technical equivlent of a whale. A very heavy almost completly submerged body wandering worldwide at a speed of 7 knots with incredible low energy needs, capeable to live on resouces and opportunities that come up seasonally at thousands of miles distance.
This vehicle would be about “apartment size” hold a adequate living space for a single family be equally comfortable in harbor or at open sea, avoiding wave movements by cruising most of the time in snorkel mode. It would provide “leave coffee cup on the table comfort” even in the worst imaginable sea conditions.
It would be the “workhorse” of a new generation of ocean explorers and settlers who engage in activities like open water pod fishfarming, tuna rearing, wreck salvage, scuba tourism, mineral explotation, scientific data collection, tourism and similar.
This workhorse would be almost completly independent of infrastructure.
It would allow to have a lifestyle that is somewhere halfway between a yachtie, the moken, and captain nemo. It would allow to paricipate in existing yachting, use existing harbor and boating infrastructure when available. But on the long run it would work best as mobile complement of oceanic cities as proposed by seasteading.
concretesubmarine.comJune 11, 2011 at 11:32 pm #13805
So far we had the following 4 start up suggestions that can be realized with a budget frame of 50-100 k USD.
Let me propose the bubble hotel.
It bases on the fact that there is a booming market for exotic hotel vacations. It ranges from Ice hotels, to tree hotels, and there is even a underwater hotel in use as we speak. Jules Underwater Lodge in Florida. There has been big intents of underwater mega hotels in dubai and fiji that folded due problems on the finance front. So it seems logical to start with a single room or a underwater cabin-pod on a low scale and take it from there.
concretesubmarine.comJune 16, 2011 at 2:39 pm #13859
So far we had the following seasteading start up suggestions:
let me propose the current turbine start up.
In a similar way as offshore wind farms are becoming important energy production assets, submerged current turbines have been tested and installed successfully. Current turbines based on cocrete hulls like the one in the picture below can be an elegant solution. It would merey be changing the propeller blades to a much bigger version and change the engine with a generator. Access to the turbine for generator maintenance could be done by a tubular structure from the surface.
The installation could be made almost entirely submerged for little impact on ship traffic and no disturbance by weather and waves. The concrete hull allows a maintenance free service life of the turbine body of several decades – you can not achive that in steel – putting the whole turbine into a drydock for gritblasting is extremly expensive. This turbine can be towed to the anchor location like a submarine and get the turbine blades installed by divers.
Seasteading Inc should invest and develop the core technologies like segmented concrete flat floats, submerged tubular concrete hulls, marina walkways and breakwaters…
concretesubmarine.comJune 17, 2011 at 3:24 pm #13867
We have the following suggestions: The catamaran float / The plate float out / The real estate squaremeter deal / The Captain Nemo float out / The bubble hotel / The current turbine / breakwater lagoon marina /
Breakwater lagoon marina it taking the normal floating marina walkways and breakwaters to the next step and moves the concept a bit farer out near a existing coastal city to provide a harbor, refuel, bait, tackle, and beer to a existing boating and yachting community.
Floating structures of that natues do already exist. Some of them are situated in the protected waters of a bay, others like the Ecofisk project (picture above) operate in extreme unprotected ambient of 30m design wave height. The lagoon filmset for the film “Waterworld” (picture above) was anchored in open water in Hawaii and later towed to San Diego.
concretesubmarine.comJune 23, 2011 at 4:28 pm #13926
I have 30years of experience in making floating concrete shell structures – most of them submarines – but i already made a 8m catamaran concrete shell back in Austria, so i am quite good prepared for this.
(Reply) Much respects to you! I wonder why you haven’t monopolized the ferro-cement-boat market yet? Please try to corner that though, most Joe Publics cannot conceive anything beyond 3-5K tops and the sasiling yatch thing has become far too luxury oriented for most of the population.)
What i have in mind is a floating base in concrete shell technique about 9tons weight – 23 tons of displacement 54cm freeboard, 0,6m draft, 6m diameter – shape of a cup – 10cm wall thickness – undestructible maintenance free for 200 years lifespan – a pioneer can buy it at 3000USD (not 30.000) put a tent on it – and is ready for pioneering – we produce them in mass in a high tech shipyard but at a cost that is available for the poor.
(Reply) Give the Indians and Chinese the schematics and you might get the prices down to 300USD, look at India’s Tata Nano Car or the Walmart Chinese goods phenomenon. Bet you that 3000USD premium could be lowered sunstantially. I include the below site and email address should you wish to get int touch with one of our more intrepid potential SSers Arthur Huang :
Miniwiz Sustainable Energy Development Ltd.
270 Zhongshiao E. Rd. Section 52F Suite 2
Taipei 110, Taiwan.
THE RELATED ARTICLE
“100 percent trash boat” sets sail in Taiwan
“ForEver”, a green vessel constructed entirely from recycled materials, sails after it maiden launch on World Oceans Day in Taipei June 8, 2011. REUTERS/Nicky Loh
TAIPEI | Thu Jun 9, 2011 9:43am EDT
(Reuters) – A boat built completely from plastic bottles and other recycled materials, including old advertising banners, set sail in Taiwan to raise awareness about the marine environment.
The trimaran, named the “Polli-Boat,” had as its main flotation system a series of interlocking plastic bricks made from plastic bottles with strengthened polyethylene terephthalate (PET), the most common plastic in use today. The seven meter (23 feet) boat has a flotation pontoon made from the 804 plastic bricks whose hexagonal shape allows them to lock together, withstanding the pressure of sailing. Used advertising banners are the sails.
“The concept of the Polli-Boat is using 100 percent trash,” said Arthur Huang, the founder and managing director of Miniwiz Sustainable Energy Development Ltd, which made the boat. “It’s being propelled only by renewable resources — obviously sailing, that’s using wind. The other is solar energy with six modules of soft solar panels.” Each panel is capable of generating 72 watts, which powers an electric motor that propels the boat when there is no wind. The boat set sail on Wednesday, World Ocean Day, in a ceremony accompanied by an eco-friendly creative boat competition held at the dock. It will tour around Taiwan for educational purposes. Sponsored by the National Geographic Channel in Taiwan, ten designs were selected out of nearly 200 entries to compete for the most innovative boat built from recycled materials.
One boat was shaped like the endangered black-faced spoonbill to promote wetlands protection, while another was designed to look like a floating city to raise awareness of rising sea levels.
(Reporting by Christine Lu, editing by Elaine Lies)
If you put your ferro-cem platform expertise together with the cheap production capabilities of the Indians and Chinese, we’d all be free from VAT, GST, bad laws, bad constitutions, apartheid-discrimination, too many taxes, abusive governments, socialised oppression, collusion with GMO companies, polluting plastics etc.., big brother BS and everything bad abut LSes in a very short while.
Tell us how your discussions with Arther go, I’ll be among the first to buy those 300USD 200 year worthy ferrocement platforms from you and Arther’s cooperative/co. (invite me to invest a bit, I really want to see an alterntive to LSes arise – if you guys can get the paperwork infra up for contributions, I’m in to whatevfer I can spare), to set up an Atoll with the rest of those who are tired or ROAD TAX, Toll Concession, GMO foods, apartheid laws and the rest of the rubbish, nepotism, oligarchy, LS govts are today.
Hail the new architects of FREE living ! Outside the Cartagena EEZ perhaps? (Mexico is not so good cos of the hurricane zone issue . . . ) Keep us informed.
Total Physical Freedom and Total Mental Autonomy, Tempered with Common Sense.
Utopia – Capitalism with Socialist Caps on Personal Wealth – US$20 Million
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=36665503866June 23, 2011 at 10:26 pm #13954
I am new to this forum. Hi, I am in awe of your accomplishments.
I might be able to be one of the 5 for $1000 a month you asked for long ago.
Have you considered using your real estate concept and your catamaran concept together. attaching your sq m floating blocks in a catamaran layout that could deliver your real estate concept anywhere in the world with sail/power, to be configured to the clients layout on delivery. whether that be a livable catamaran, platform, or part of a bigger project?
Could they be built taller and/or longer in one demension and still be manageble by a few men? 1 meter wide by 1.5 meters tall and long? Flat bottom should be no issue, and could have a fastened beam on bottom and sides as structural safety for transit.
Nice work. Awesome accomplishments.June 23, 2011 at 10:42 pm #13955
Another 2 uses for concrete subs I did not see mentioned would be:
1. as additional living space in a marina with underwater viewing ports under catamaran houseboats, sailboats, or powerboats.
2. as an emergency big storm survival unit for any of these oceanic living proposals.
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