steasteading pioneer starter kit – TSI to supply it – to optimize it
May 31, 2011 at 2:17 pm #13657
Seasteader starter kit suggestion 1
The base element : catamaran concrete float – a chambered concrete float element built from concrete that replaces the (fast rotting) bambus bundle in the asian floating house concept. The catamaran floating element is a maintenance free base with a 200 year service life you can build a house on that lasts, and maintains a high grade of mobility. You can use it for a floating village development or for a mobile platform capeable of oceanic travel. Cost universe 331 Euro/ cubic meter of displacement.
Give it to the moken people – they will seastead – give it to the polinesian they will settle the pacific.
concretesubmarine.comMay 31, 2011 at 3:45 pm #13659
Seasteading starter suggestion 2
Floating concrete structures in plate shape of a fairly big diameter (about 70m ) have been performed already. It is quite obvious that the structure when done in industrial size can be built with traditional methods of concrete casting. The key question how much freeboard you need for a structure that features no deck is pretty much answered by container ships that don’t feature decks either. (Around 15m).
What we tested in our R&D site in cartagena is how small could you actually go for building a plate float. The answer is in the first picture that features a plate made of special fiber concrete. A family house sized plate (picture 2) is in the range of possibilities but must feature a deck as a 15m freeboard is not achieveable for small structures. The plate is a great way to build city sized low wind profile structures that have low requirement for locomotion and station keeping. In therory a whole country on a plate seastead does already exist – the netherlands – most of the terrain is actually under the waterline protected by dikes that avoid a “filling of the plate depression”… floating cities and countries based on the floating plate priciple are not so “utopic” after all.
concretesubmarine.comMay 31, 2011 at 4:06 pm #13661
seasteading starter suggestion 3
One of the best way to get started is to cook it down to a simple real estate deal. You produce 1 squaremeter of useable space at a cost of USD 166 and you can sell that space at a price of at least 2000 USD.
Any real estate agent can understand that business, any investor and any bank can understand it. It looks feasible and desireable business in any business plan.
This is why we should not go with “complicated turnkey concepts” but simply try to establish a fabrication site for “floating real estate squaremeters”. Similar to our pilot project in the bay of cartagena you see below. The idea is you just fabricate floating space squaremeters for a segmented float lot of unlimited size and shape that can keep growing on a dayly base.
Creating oceanfront real estate by building sandbanks is a fairly common and well understood business that is going off on large scale in Dubai and other locations. It is a central paradigm of the real estate business that space can not be created but is limited – especially oceanfront space.
Concrete float solutions expand the sellable real estate to the water – this should be a desireable business field for investors that normally have no affinity to “boating” of any kind.
So to start with i would just sistematicly mass produce floating “empty building lots on the water” and offer them for sale. This is a simple deal, with a never ending pool of possible customers, easy handle for established real estate businesses.
The bay of cartagena for example is a hurricane free water space that is completly open for that kind of developments. A wide and empty protected waterspace surrounded by skyscrappers (some built by donald trump) – ready to do business.
My current development budget for floating installations in cartagena is limited to USD 5000/month. As you have seen on the pictures i can only crank out a few experimental squaremeters of floating real estate in small scale pilot projects in this finance frame.
But even so i already got requests for float out all kind of touristic and industrial installations. If i had a couple of floating platforms ready for sale at this moment i could sell them all…
It is of essence for the “guts understanding of the business” that buyers can step on their “empty building lot” and understand that this is not a kind of “boat” – this is solid real estate ground – ocean view.
concretesubmarine.comJune 1, 2011 at 12:40 am #13673
Should the platform be inverted? This would eliminate any swamping concerns, and 7 connected platforms with buildings on them is a sizeable SFS. $21K for “Land” is a great price.
SteveJune 1, 2011 at 1:49 am #13675
ellmer ur saying that people would buy modular platforms from u if u had some to sell, right now? im ready to come help u build them right now. i have significant experience in construction. allow me to help. my last salaried position i was a site supervisor for crews of laborers – up to 40 guys under my power at a time. lets go build something! more importantly, lets sell something!
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”June 1, 2011 at 5:06 pm #13689shredder7753 wrote:
ellmer ur saying that people would buy modular platforms from u if u had some to sell, right now? im ready to come help u build them right now. … lets go build something! more importantly, lets sell something!
Shred, yes that is exactly what i am saying. To have a clear picture you must imagine the bay of cartagena as a giant calm water space hurricane free. You need about an hour in boat to cross the bay. This is a lot of space open for development.
The shoreline is cramped with skyscrappers shipyard industry, tourism. The bay is so big and so empty that port authorities allow 30 days free anchoring for 150m containerships – which is quite unique in the caribbean.
My current management problem is to put a partnership together that will allow me to build and float out a first segmented floating lot. I have customers ready to buy for a finished floating base, but i have no “upfront money” to build one. This brings us back to the known problem that we have to start on the smallest possible scale and work our way up over time.
As i have built working submarines from concrete already people start to believe me when i claim that i can build floating concrete structures of almost any kind.
Ideally every project would leave the money in the pocket and the credibility to get the right partners to step up to the next level. After comming to the last picture of the series – floating the whole thing out from a quiet bay as the bay of cartagena and become oceanic – being a business focus in itself should be within reach.
I apreciate your offer to help but at the moment the cost of transferring a life from one country to another is not in reach of the budget frame i have available. I am going to build and sell a couple of the things in picture 1-3 to get the business wheel rolling…
concretesubmarine.comJune 2, 2011 at 11:04 pm #13696
Why don’t you post a for sale notice here and see what happens.
SteveJune 3, 2011 at 10:48 pm #13698
Is Cartagena the best place for your business then? Perhaps the USA or the Med would be closer to customers?
SteveJune 4, 2011 at 4:32 pm #13701sda1950 wrote:
Is Cartagena the best place for your business then? Perhaps the USA or the Med would be closer to customers?
Steve, i would go anywhere if i had a project to do. In fact i recently tried to contact Sir Richard Branson with a suggestion to build big yacht submarines and futuristic undewater tourism cities on Neckar Island – have not got an answer yet as you probably can imagine the man is busy.
The bay of cartagena is the best “natural bay feature” on the continent this is why the spanish started their conquest of the continent from here. It is hurricane free, so in terms of hardware it is certainly a excellent place.
Caribbean countries also have a good culture of not overregulate new things out of existance. A bearable density of “control institutions” of any kind, in fact building on the water (as long as you are not considered vessel and do not implement changes to the litoral) is for all practical purpose “not regulated at all” …
I would consider USA and the Mediterranenan “harder to work places” in general terms. When it comes to float out something that exceeds 20 m diameter in size.
In a earlier phase i considered the building of “mobile solutions” that would be built in low labor cost countries and delivered to high cost countries a good business strategy – but i would incline to “local waterfront development” as a first step at the moment, because i got a unexpected high level of interest for this.
This may be a “local phenomenon” here in cartagena or it may be generalized – i have not tested it in other building sites in pilot projects yet.
The question for which world area do you incline does only come up when there exists equal possibilities to start a project in different world areas. My situation is that i can not transfer my projects neither to USA not Med because i do not have the financial means to do so.
I have a small support base and a favorable business environment here in cartagena to do the first necessary steps which are experimenting with the base floating elements and then step up to sell floating elements to create ROI and come to business development.
I mentioned several times on the seasteading forums that i am looking for strong partnership to do the first steps quickly – as it looks there is no ” willing finance muscle” availeable in the audience to get this done. My phone did not ring and the e-mail did not pop up a let’s partner – message.
So i have to do this obviously by my own means working with local partnerships in a grassroot approach. Maybe the partnership approach from U.S.A, Club Med, Dubai, Trump and co. comes later when the business is more obvious.
What i have to show so far seems not to be enough to give me an option in what world area i want to establish business – so it will be cartagena grassroot for a while i assume.
concretesubmarine.comJune 5, 2011 at 3:48 pm #13713emmettvm wrote:
On the topic of a “seasteading pioneer goods provider” what kind of packages would you have in mind OTHER than the platform? Desalination and purification kits? Foldable self-watering containers for a small patch (1 square meter per) of growing space for herbs and some veggies? Solar water heaters? Its getting late here, and I havent put a great deal of thought into this yet, so Im short on ideas, but I was wondering what you had thought of for this sort of thing.
The most important thing is probably identify and work the limiting factor correctly. As far as i see it nobody is limited in his seasteading venture at this very moment because he can not get freshwater and desalination kits, water containers, herbs and veggies, or solar heaters…
I have the impression that we all are stuck because of the same reason – we can not afford a “floating turn key lifestyle platform” as offered by the yacht industy to get our life aquatic. Settlement needs Settlers and those are people of medium low financial means. So as long as we can not enable people to float out at moderate cost – it will not happen.
If we set appart our cultural blindness and look at “cross cultural float outs” we can see that the Moken people float out in boats they can build themselfs repair themselfs, in a similar way the pioneers that went west, did it in wagoons they could build locally – repair underway.
So one of the key factors would be to keep the basic toolkit simple. Things like aquapods, desalination solutions, scuba gear, will come handy to interact with the ocean and get a living out of it.
Although it may sound weird at first sight a concrete sub is easy repair technology and concrete shell building in general is something that can be implemented easier than any other material including the wooden moken boats.
The gear that the moken use are basic dive masks (self fabricated) netting, spears, self fabricated outboard motors, etc…
In some way the moken are early technology embracers – they took scuba technology and adapted the mask to make it with materials from their ambient (wood and glass) – they took the gas engine but stripped it from the complicated high tech parts of an outboard motor and simplified the transmission and propeller.
So this is a pattern we should follow – take what is there – but simplyfy and make it easy repair – stay independent from “send item to the nearest authorized repair shop” services.
concretesubmarine.comJune 6, 2011 at 3:19 pm #13723emmettvm wrote:
On the topic of a “seasteading pioneer goods provider” what kind of packages would you have in mind OTHER than the platform?
The most important thing “other than platform/floating living space” is probably to provide the MATRIX where seasteading can develop. I discussed with Ocean a hypothetic firm called seasteading Inc. that would provide things that the development company provides for land settle developments. Among those a construction licence for the building lot, a third party interference free space where the builder can create his home, supply, like phone, water, electricity, a access road and bus shuttle service, economic building material souces like cement providers with special offer for the development. Like minded individuals to ask for advise, favorable builder credit and quotes…
We had that universe of thoughts at the Seasteading Outpost Belize forum. Belize did not take off due to the cost and difficulty to transfer our life and work from where we are now to belize. But the idea of creating a “dedicated development” was certainly acertive…
Seasteading Inc would do what the cultural ambient is doing for the moken. Take away the “lonley seasteader” burden and make it a community effort. It would work like the historic example of the East India Company or the railroad company for the settlement of the american wild west.
concretesubmarine.comJune 6, 2011 at 5:05 pm #13725
I am still kinda’of a pissed off that nothing happened then! Specially after I put a lot of time in it and find a nice key (caye, as they call it there) for sale there, really cheap, located right on the reef! A 10 acres parcel on the Alligator Caye which is still for sale and the price was dropped to $99K from the original price of $169k!
I even had a business plan for a snorkeling-diving eco-tourism resort there. I even had found a nice, cheap 55′ trawler to be used as ferry and supply boat. I even had the real estate company there ready to make a deal in subdividing the parcel so we can buy only the best part of it, 3-4 acres of high and dry land on the lagoon side with a nice natural sandy beach and tropical vegetation. I even had a location for Seasteadinf Inc. mapped down, where we could have built small floating SFS that could have been anchored around and rented out as “floating bunglows”.
I even had cash in hand, ready to invest but nobody else showed interest….June 6, 2011 at 5:38 pm #13726
I actually really like that idea. It would be approaching the entire endeavor from the standpoint of creating a new community rather than buying a new product. Those who chose to join would not be “wing nuts” for putting their money into something considered untested by most people, but rather would be finding meaning in life that traditional living has strained out.
Im planning on doing some writing here tonight on a few different business ideas. I know this is your baby, ellmer and Ocean, but would you mind terribly if I kind of jumped aboard your bandwagon and wrote up a bit on it myself in the business section?
Also, that set of connections and information you mention, ellmer, the infrastructional matrix of seasteading creation, could be something folded quite easily into Ocean’s micronation.
Speaking of which, Ocean, thats something Id love to hear more about. Ive got just a little under 2 months left in Iraq (during which I expect to be even more busy than I normally am), but once Im back in the states I’ll be back on somewhat regular hours and could contribute to your project if you would have the assistance.June 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm #13727
I think that the The Seasteading Outpost idea was first introduced by Dan B. Then, Pastor_Jason’s picked up on it and we all showed some interest in it and it became SOBIZ. So, somehow it’s everybody’s “baby”.
By the way,…where is Pastor_Jason nowadays? Is anybody still keeping in touch with him?
EMM, the Miironation text and format is almost done, and I am in the process of putting some last touches on it. Speaking in general about micronations, there is a sort of stigma attached to them since they are perceieved as nothing but online “game playing” seccesionist worthless attempts,…which is true in most of the cases, IMHO. When you have self-proclaimed Dukes, Kings, Emperores, etc operating their “sovereign nations” from the “territory” of their livingrooms, how can they be perceived as anything other than a JOKE! So, with that in mind, I HAVE to avoid having this micronation being perceived as so, @ ALL COST because it is nothing like the rest.
In reality, using the term “micronation” for what I have in mind cannot even be associated to what micronations are being perceived as, since I am using the term to literarlly describe a small nation, based on a floating island in terms of its size, and having a small population to start with. I will send you a private message with a brief introduction on the subject, since you have shown interest. For sure I will need a lot of assistance with this project, if it takes off. Plus, my life is a bit hectic right now since the main project here is buying a house (wife says it’s a must,…:) and then comes the MMK or the micronation,… But definately I could use some help when that time comes.June 6, 2011 at 7:31 pm #13697sda1950 wrote:
Why don’t you post a for sale notice here and see what happens.
Steve, i can not sell small floats internationally, and i doubth that this forum is a channel that is used by many potential customers for floating real estate in the bay of cartagena where i am situated now. Seasteading is at least in the beginning when the floats are still small and low mobility a completly local business.
My plan for scale up is more or less described in the picture series below…
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