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steasteading pioneer starter kit – TSI to supply it – to optimize it

Home Forums Archive Infrastructure steasteading pioneer starter kit – TSI to supply it – to optimize it

This topic contains 48 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of shredder7753 shredder7753 2 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 49 total)
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  • #1153

    The pioneers on the american continent had certain things they took with them – among those a rifle, a horse, a tent, a wagon, non perishable food, hand tools, – one of the central rols for pioneering where in the trading companies that supplied those goods – maybe TSI could define its role more as a “general water pioneer goods provider” than a “patented turn key solution provider”.

    A ocean pioneer would need, a floating platform of house size, (min 40 squaremeter, maximum 200 squaremeter), personal breakwater and neting solutions, floating walkways between platforms, aquaculture solutions of all kind, distributed cheap buoancy – something like bottles, to create “landfill like space – as bottle island and the Uru vegetation Islands, Scuba gear, personal wind and wave energy generators – and repair services, material supply for concrete, rebar, plastic structural elements, long term pioneer credit, living containers to place on personal platforms, salt water resistant handtools of all kind cheaper than yacht supply, galley solutions cheaper than yacht supply, compost toilets, water condensation and desalinisation solutions, shadow roofs, internet,

    Maybe we should let go the “whole service resident, condo – idea and just focus to improve existing water pioneering items like personal floating platforms – to make pioneers life achieveable at low budgets – people will do the development on their own.

    Just having good and comfortable low cost platforms that do not grind against each other could make seasteading permanent – starting right away from ephemerisle – it breaks my heart to see all those guys with goodwill keeping themselves hardly afloat and connected with boats and rudimentary rafts…we can do much better. I am building a 9ton 6m diameter (40 squaremeter) floating island with a target cost of some 3000 USD – you put a tent on it and you can start living and pioneering right away.

    For connecting I suggest the seastar design and grid seasteading as scaleable development solution. – What if TSI floats out 100 of those and connects them permanently semirigid for a permanent event. Give a free starter kit to willing pioneers and they will do it.

    Just get them afloat with a acceptable comfortable private space at affordable cost and take grinding of units out of the equation. These are a few simple engineering and development goals easy to solve and the seastar concept solves them all.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #9072
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hey Ellmer, 3000 USD for 40sq meters sounds really good! Did you meant 30,000 USD by chance??

    If not, what’ll be the shape and other structural details like shell thickness etc? What about transportation costs? Keep the ideas flowing!

    #9076

    As i live in southamerica i see so many life examples of pioneers taking a horse a machete and disappear in the harsh environment of the jungle to make a living – i also see fishermen owning a rotten canoe extracting a living from the ocean by fishing and selling fish to the hotelery business, i see those people making improvised camp grounds in remote rich fishing areas and live there quite a while. They would live in their canoes if they could. We will not have to explain those people how a stable 40 squaremeter platform will improve their hard pioneer life. At the moment those people overexploit the local waters – not because they are bad or unaware of the damage – they would spread out over the caribbean if they only could.

    If we can give them a platform – they can pay back during a year in fish and lobster – they will do it – as good southamerican people they will want to stay connected with their primos – if we can give them connected platforms – great – if we can give them sustainable fishing like open water aguaculture – even better – if we can connect them to tourism – as dive guides – ocean guardians – terrific.

    So i am in the plan to deliver structures to the local hotel business – tourism industry – in a nut shell first world segment. But the idea of seasteading and pioneering especially the fact that the hungry drive the frontiers and it has always been so – makes me think of making a low cost fishermens platform too.

    I have 30years of experience in making floating concrete shell structures – most of them submarines – but i already made a 8m catamaran concrete shell back in Austria, so i am quite good prepared for this.

    What i have in mind is a floating base in concrete shell technique about 9tons weight – 23 tons of displacement 54cm freeboard, 0,6m draft, 6m diameter – shape of a cup – 10cm wallthickness – undestructible maintenance free for 200 years lifespan – a pioneer can buy it at 3000USD (not 30.000) put a tent on it – and is ready for pioneering – we produce them in mass in a high tech shipyard but at a cost that is available for the poor.

    later we give them flexible extension arms to expand the concept to a seastar concept and stay connected in waves without grinding.

    In the San Bernardo Achipelago right outside cartagena a couple of fishermen families live on a small coral atoll cramped with wooden huts – they call it the densest populated place on earth – and it probably is. Tourist visit the spot everyday – they would like to have a couple of those platforms connected to their island and declare it worlds first seastead and become even more famous and touristic.

    Wil

    #9083
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Hey Wil, can I just point out; 6 meter dia comes to about 28 sq meters, not 40..

    #9086

    sure, if you calculate it as circle area – a seastar would have arm stumps that extend the round center island to a square shape, in practice you will have some kind of trampolin over the arm stumps or a additional extendable plating, you also would have a flat roof you can stand on – so a kind of second floor, you also have tanks below so a kind of basement (that lacks standing height) – calculating all this as living space would bring you to some 90 squaremeter but it would not have the space feeling of a 90 squaremeter home – so this would be cheating. A conservative and realistic approach is that a 6m diameter core island will provide you with a “rough living space equvalent” of a 40 squaremeter home – that is a nice space for a student in a european city – so it would be a good point to start.

    #9949
    Avatar of sda1950
    sda1950
    Participant

    Wil, For those of us who expect a little more, how much for a 15 M diameter dish with a 3/8th geo dome cover, and arm stumps. I’m thinking the arm stumps will provide 2 of 3 fish net supports.

    #9956

    Hello sda1950 – i would say a 15m diameter floating island can be done with about 200 ton structural concrete shell building. Forming cost should be similar to the submarine habitats and yachts we do at European Submarine Structures AB – so it could be done at a cost of about 100.000 USD – in South America – at local labor and material cost.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #9957
    Avatar of admiral-doty
    admiral-doty
    Participant

    Could these be cast in fiber reinforced concrete with reusable molds? Maybe even cast them in the water for ease of mold remval and handling.

    #9966
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    I look forward to developments in this regard. My one concern is that there is already a problem with overfishing, so it would be necessary to co-develop aquaculture with these platforms.

    I recently travelled through parts of South America, and was quite impressed with the people and the culture there, and with the low costs it all points towards your location being a good one. Unfortunately I was not able to get by Cartagena on that trip, but I am hoping to correct that before long.

    #9967
    Avatar of xns
    xns
    Participant

    The aquaculture element would be very simple, and cheap based on my experiences. You wouldn’t even need to design with the fish cage/pen in mind, most of them simply need to be tied to the structure.

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #10810
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    I like your Logic on this,

    uhm not to pick your brains or anything, Ellmer :) but could you tell me what the trade cost of concrete is per ton (metric)

    #10822

    Hello Jack when building a family seastead the cost of concrete is probably the less important cost factor, things like neighbourhood management, authority management, shipyard management, structure moving, and the asociated costs always turn out to be a multiple of the pure building material cost. Even if you look at the cost on the building site only (without third party interference cost) workhours and forming still are high above the building material costs.

    So to estimate a realistic figure you basicly have to do the whole thing – look at the total costs under real world conditions and then break it down to total cost per ton of displacement (living space created). This can be compared to housing cost – 1 squaremeter in a 2,5 m high room is 2,5 cubic meter space.

    For submerged structures ton of displacement is (almost) equivalent to cubic meter living space. For surface floats you have to look at the structure weight and calculate it in tons of shellbuilding. A floating lens shape of 9 tons shell building would have 6m diameter. How many squaremeter living space you squeeze on such a float depends on your phantasy (under deck space, on deck space, flat roof, ).

    We calculate a total general structure raw building cost of 331 Euro per ton (this is a experimental average figure of our projects in south america) has little to do with concrete cost. It is the cost of “pull a project off under real world conditions” tested out in real projects.

    To answer your questions, here in Colombia a 50kilo sack of high quality cement is about 22.000COP, a rebar 1/2′ for 18.000COP, a truckload of good aggregate about 500.000 COP, a lawer 800.000COP/hour…

    Wil

    European Submarine Structures AB

    concretesubmarine.com

    #10823
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    so thats about $230 a metric ton, you aint getting that at trade price i think. I take it thats from supplier not manufacturing plants?

    Sorry I know you think im in europe (am alot of the time) but i get paid in Dollars, so i loose money when i change it to Euro’s or GBP.

    Thanks m8!

    #13637
    Avatar of sda1950
    sda1950
    Participant

    Wil,

    While the price of each unit is fantastic, I’m alittle concerned about freeboard. 54 cm. is about 21 in. this might be ok where you are but not most places.

    Steve

    #13639

    sda1950 wrote:

    …I’m alittle concerned about freeboard. ..

    I like to start all freeboard discussions for flat rafts with a image of the Kon-Tiki this flat raft made it over the pacific with only inches of freeboard and the hut on top did not get washed overboard !

    On the other hand a modern containership that moves quickly trough cyclon areas to deliver freight has a freeboard of 15m as design requirement.

    Where between those numbers lays the area where you stop to be concerned is basicly a question of faith and location.

    I give you a couple of pictures that shed light on the freeboard question. Glomar CDI platform was built for arctic conditions, Nkossa for open sea in tropical areas, Adriatic for the mediterranean, containership freeboard, common marina floating walkway installations in storm conditions, kon-tiki crossing the pacific…

    As long as you have a deck that can take a “deck awash” and a direct wave hit – yacht design considers 1m and less of freeboard sufficient for open ocean…

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

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