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Stadion Seastead, plate seastead, deeploaded seastead

Home Forums Archive Structure Designs Stadion Seastead, plate seastead, deeploaded seastead

This topic contains 61 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ellmer - http://yook3.com ellmer – http://yook3.com 2 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 62 total)
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  • #12973
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    That will make sense, a lots of sense.

    This is part, true story, because that’s how I got into seasteading,..:), dreaming of that. Let’s say you are living aboard your 27′ sailboat in San Diego Ca. If you are dreaming on sailing to Hawaii and the South Pacific on that 27 footer, you’d better think twice, ’cause that’s a big ocean ahead of you, with big waves and bad storms and the chances of not making it are really high. But what if a mobile marina would exist? You rent a slip there like, let’s say, 50 others small sailboat owners. Your slip fee would be a bit higher, since the whole marina now will set sail toward Hawaii, and there are some fuel and power generating expense related to that. But 30 days later, you are there. The marina will anchor somewhere, lets say off Maui and everybody now can go sailing the Hawiian island for few weeks. Next step, the Marquesas. So on and so forth. Eventually, this marina will circumnavigate the world, giving those sailors a chance to do the same, on a small budget. If that mobile marina would have been there in San Diego, back in the “90s, I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat. And so would have done a lot of the local liveaboards. Something like this could work:

    #12974
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Such “mobile marina-seastead hybrid” could also be a deepsea fishing-diving-snorkeling resort destination (wherever it is, all over the world). The sailors renting a slip there can work aboard the various jobs of the resort, providing the neccesary work force. Sailing around the word and making money,….there will be a waiting list, for sure,…:)

    #12976
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    It’s a win-win situation. The liveaboard slips fees are paying for the cost of mobility and power generating = price of diesel. While working on the various businesses aboard, the sailors are also generating profit for the seastead while also making money for themselves to pay for their lifestyle (including the slip fees, power and food). The profit that the seastead makes is used to maintain the structure and also to generate more business, therefore beneficial for the sailors too. It’s a happy ending “catch 22″ :)! Everybody can make money and enjoy the seasteading lifestyle.

    #12975

    the idea of having your personal living space shipped over the ocean by a larger unit is not only feasible it is business already drydock ships sell this service – like always it is just a question of bringing the cost down and make it available for average joe to make it a “humanity mainstream” style of living.

    A mobile seastead (going much slower than a dock ship) could also extract a part of its cost by having a tuna rearing unit and a mobile open ocean fishfarm attached.

    One tuna has the value of a small car in asian sushi market. The seastead would finally pull its own tourism segment like palm dubai does. It could be a floating REAL ESTATE thing more than a ship, as palm dubai is – or a cruiseship with a economic permanent resident option. There are existing markets for all of this options. Having a low profile (other than a cruiseship) its course would depend more on predictible currents than on (not so predictable) wind. So the cost of mobility could be quite low compared to ships. It would not move (a lot) relative to the surrounding water it would just “ride the existing currents”. It would start as a modular breakwater growning bigger over time.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #12977
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    It’s a win-win situation. The liveaboard slips fees are paying for the cost of mobility and power generating = price of diesel. While working on the various businesses aboard, the sailors are also generating profit for the seastead while also making money for themselves to pay for their lifestyle (including the slip fees, power and food). The profit that the seastead makes is used to maintain the structure and also to generate more business, therefore beneficial for the sailors too. It’s a happy ending “catch 22″ :)! Everybody can make money and enjoy the seasteading lifestyle.

    yyaaaaaayyyyyy! woot!

    ____________

    My work

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #12981

    The problem is – like always – getting a finance plan in place. The difficulty of getting big amounts of venture capital to such a project forces a “start as small as possible”. The smallest concrete plate seastead and the smallest modular flat float platform i have made and tested so far are the ones below.

    Setting up a building site of 2 workers in a low cost country in south america you could build that kind of structures at a growth rate of a bit less than 1 metric tons per day – maintaining building constant over a year you could end up with a 200 -300 squaremeter structure that allows a nice live aboard.

    It would be spiral island on steroids…

    The modular flat float concept is probably one of the winning concepts in the quest for “affordable ocean based living space”.

    The other concept i tested in practice is the “ocean capeable living space bubble” this concept has a very simililar cost/space ratio.

    At the end seasteading will be implemented by individuals choosing any of those living space concepts (and a lot more) for their housing needs – so applications like the “marina seastead” allowing a come together of several individal “private living space concepts” will be key.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #13008
    Profile photo of R-B-Wood
    R-B-Wood
    Participant

    At the end seasteading will be implemented by individuals choosing any of those living space concepts (and a lot more) for their housing needs – so applications like the “marina seastead” allowing a come together of several individal “private living space concepts” will be key.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    I agree

    #13024
    Profile photo of wesley_Bruce
    wesley_Bruce
    Participant

    Floating seawalls do not need to be contious around a floating marina. An array of staggered wave damping units would work if they are deployed and co-ordinated to damp all the waves. This creates an area in the middle that has quiet seas for a marina and other systems. This design allows vessels to come and go from the sheltered area freely. It also allows the break wall to have mobile backup units and allows big opennings for big vessels to move through as required.

    In this illistration we have gray wave steads and wave power units, There are dark green shipsteads and unmanned floating farm units which double as tuggs to move around the floating sea walls. In the center area we have

    Light Green is a large floating mat based sea stead/ farm system. A Continuous mat of float ponds and inflatable decks with switchable rigidity. (Floating digital matter.)

    Orange are large clusters of interlocked sea steads forming the business center. Note one is also a ship bases sea stead for trade further afield.

    Yellow is algae oil farms: very big but modular arrays of floating bladders of fuel producing organisms.

    Blue are small spars, flip ship like spars and other smaller units.

    The waves passing under the wave barriors encounter a second one just in case. Any passing the ends of the units encounter another or cancel out with other waves. A deeper description is on my blog.

    http://appliedimpossibilies.blogspot.com/2010/03/sea-steading-as-fleet-of-vessel-classes.html

    This is a wavestead. The cylinders are egg shaped in cross section and turn the wave action into a damped rotation.

    ====================================================================================================

    For everyone’s information I was involved with the original Oceania Project in a small way. I’m also in several space organisations. And I have a Degree in sustainable Development, sustainable agriculture and renewable energy,water and sewerage.

    #13025
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    artwork, woot!

    ____________

    My work

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13103

    Matt wrote:

    I’ve read the (Wil’s) numbers over and over again, I’ve tried to understand the substead concept and must admit that it took me some months for it to “sink in”, but now I’m pretty confident it is marketable.

    Living in South America myself I can attest to the wave of expats that come to start a new life. 1 out of 100 of them are actual adventurers. I know for a fact I have a good chance to get financing for a completely (legally) safe turnkey operation. But even that is somewhat of a long shot, so:

    I believe some of us do have more than 60K in assets, and in many cases it’s truly a matter of how you want to spend your time/money, and risk-tolerance, than lack of actual capital.

    I estimate that if the shell infrastructure is of that price, then just to be sure I’ll say 120K will buy a fully furnished vessel/living space with super safe toillet valves.

    For how much could it be privately chartered? Or rather, how much would someone pay for acommodation that is way more private and and a lot closer to the reef?

    Cheap waterfront parcels in Ambergris Cay, Belize are about 60,000USD/ 450m2 but on the wrong (west) side of the island and in pre-development (no roads, jungle not cleared,). Point is that some non millionaires pay hundreds of thousends of dollars to be able to live, or spends some time close to the underwater gardens that are coral reefs.

    As a business model I’d propose a better version of this: overnight stays, literally a spit away (un par de brazadas hasta) from Australia’s magical coral reefs: http://www.reeftrip.com/day-cruises-details.aspx#magic

    The Western Caribbean is home to the second (or third if you count the Triangle) biggest reef system in the world and is only a short fly or sail away from North America, growing Latin America, and somewhat closer to Europe than Australia. There is a huge market if it begins as a hospitality option for snorkelers and divers.

    A 120K project could be divided in 10 or 6 or only 3 shares and I’d still be willing personally to invest in it (provided the myriad of details to be worked out ).

    Matt, i agee complety a bubble hotel near the reef would be nice and interesting in terms of business.

    People do rent exotic hotel rooms in ice hotels, tree hotels, etc… why not in submarine hotels. There would be a feasible construction and business plan with a strong finance back up.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #13114
    Profile photo of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    I liked this structure. How much more expensive do you guess it would be, compared with your 200ton submarine of $60k?

    It’s nice because it seems you can get true protection against open waters by sinking it, and yet you could eventually make a sort of yard/barbacue place above it, by using stuff that could be brought down or that could submerge. You can even make a sort of swimming pool too, using the sea. I think it’s important to have some “outside space”, psychologically speaking, specially in the beginning of seasteading when there will not be true cities and people would probably work from home…

    It does not seem very mobile though… I’d suppose the costs of station keeping, if not anchored, would be high, right?

    #13115
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    caveden wrote:

    I liked this structure. How much more expensive do you guess it would be, compared with your 200ton submarine of $60k?

    It’s nice because it seems you can get true protection against open waters by sinking it, and yet you could eventually make a sort of yard/barbacue place above it, by using stuff that could be brought down or that could submerge. You can even make a sort of swimming pool too, using the sea. I think it’s important to have some “outside space”, psychologically speaking, specially in the beginning of seasteading when there will not be true cities and people would probably work from home…

    It does not seem very mobile though… I’d suppose the costs of station keeping, if not anchored, would be high, right?

    [/quote]

    finally, somebody that actually agrees with me.

    ____________

    My work

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13118

    caveden wrote:

    I liked this structure. How much more expensive do you guess it would be, compared with your 200ton submarine of $60k?

    It’s nice because it seems you can get true protection against open waters by sinking it, and yet you could eventually make a sort of yard/barbacue place above it, by using stuff that could be brought down or that could submerge. You can even make a sort of swimming pool too, using the sea. I think it’s important to have some “outside space”, psychologically speaking, specially in the beginning of seasteading when there will not be true cities and people would probably work from home…

    It does not seem very mobile though… I’d suppose the costs of station keeping, if not anchored, would be high, right?

    The cost of concrete structure building is always around 331 Euro/ton (here in south america when i lead the project) – it does matter little what kind of structure you build.

    I understand your fascination with the deck platform for barbacue but if you think it trough you will have your barbacue at the beach not on deck.

    The outside space is overrated as you will anchor the unit in a bungalow ambient like the one below.

    Station keeping is no issue for a semi/submerged living space bubble – anchor requirements are by far softer than for surface floats as there is no wind/wave exposed area which is the part that creates the anchor relevant forces.

    Question is – if you have a submerged bubble why sacrifice full mobility if it comes with almost no cost – you might want to live like this yachtie guys – can still be stationary – if you want. (check this out)

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #13127
    Profile photo of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    I understand your fascination with the deck platform for barbacue but if you think it trough you will have your barbacue at the beach not on deck.

    But isn’t the whole idea to be far away from the coast so we could have political independence?

    And with no platform above the submarine, how do you leave it without having to move your entire house to a port? By having a platform, you could attach inflatable boats to it, eventually even small submarines that would be like your car. :) It’s an open space that could suit many needs.

    But anyway, according to what you’re saying, that shouldn’t make the submarine too much more expensive, right? Say, 10% more? 20%? If it’s around that I’d say it might be worthy…

    Station keeping is no issue for a semi/submerged living space bubble – anchor requirements are by far softer than for surface floats as there is no wind/wave exposed area which is the part that creates the anchor relevant forces.

    I was thinking about station keeping without an anchor, on deep waters. I read on that TSI report that it can get pretty expensive. Cost is third power of the current or something…

    Question is – if you have a submerged bubble why sacrifice full mobility if it comes with almost no cost – you might want to live like this yachtie guys – can still be stationary – if you want. (check this out)

    Well, I don’t think a house needs a lot of mobility, so I wouldn’t mind sacrifying it a bit if it would make it nicer. To go back to land, I suppose there would be sort of bus-boats or something, and I suppose it would be cheaper to use them than to move your entire house.

    Would the platform make mobility too much more expensive?

    Thank you for your answers, I know I’m annoying, it’s just that it interests me and I don’t really undesrtand anything about the subject.

    #13133
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    (this is off the convo but relevant to the thread)

    where is this concrete that lasts 200 years? i agree its good stuff but i’ve been living around concrete my whole life and it always has to be repaired and replaced. sidewalks, the columns holding bridges up – it cracks and crumbles. i think with a floating seastead we have to plan on using protective coatings, and doing maintenance on our concrete structures periodically.

    ____________

    My work

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 62 total)

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