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Spacesteading

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This topic contains 53 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ellmer - http://yook3.com ellmer – http://yook3.com 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 54 total)
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  • #15166
    Profile photo of Dervogel707
    Dervogel707
    Participant

    emmettvm wrote:

    sigh

    Its a very real possibility and we have the technology thats why money sucks. Money is stoping us humans from advancing thats why need to get rid of it imagine having a deathstar up in our sky. This would make for a very good space station too.

    #15167
    Profile photo of Sickor
    Sickor
    Participant

    dervogel1707 wrote:

    money sucks. Money is stoping us humans from advancing

    Thats 100 % correct, its sad really.

    #15168
    Profile photo of Sickor
    Sickor
    Participant

    emmettvm wrote:

    sigh

    this is completely possible if thats what your sigh is referring to. We have all the tech and the resources, its just a matter of beating big money and actually doing it.

    #15169
    Profile photo of HopDavid
    HopDavid
    Participant

    Dervogel707 wrote:

    I think we should make a deathstar. Very very costly, and I mean in the septillions, but that’s why I hope we get rid of the monetary system and we can get bots or something and people who are just willing to build it for the advancment of the human race. I am definitely willing to.

    Seasteading is much more doable than spacesteading. Therefore I thought this forum’s participants would tend to be more practical than what I’ve seen at space forums.

    I am disappointed with the signal to noise ratio here.

    #15170
    Profile photo of Sickor
    Sickor
    Participant

    HopDavid wrote:

    Seasteading is much more doable than spacesteading. Therefore I thought this forum’s participants would tend to be more practical than what I’ve seen at space forums.

    I am disappointed with the signal to noise ratio here.

    Of course it is, now would I reccomend builign a death star? No absolutly not, I tend to steer away from violence. But yes we should fin much less costly ways to live in space, and when i say costly i mean in the sense of how many resources we need, not money.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authori

    #15171
    Profile photo of Dervogel707
    Dervogel707
    Participant

    Sickor violence is a part of life it is only natural to hate some or something and I may sound mean and evil but isnt evil and mean only a perspective? When your hungry you eat when your tired you sleep when your angry you…? We need protection dont think of weapons as violent killing evil things think of them as something to be used as protection. Everyone hears deathstar and thinks of Star Wars and they think of the sith’s purpose for the Deathstar. I think this will be more used as a space station but a laser that can destroy a whole planet wont either.

    Imagine if luke had the deathstar. Those are my hopes for us.

    #15174
    Profile photo of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster

    First, anything like a Death Star is way in the future. Money and politics aside, even if we have the technology to build one (a point that I won’t address), we don’t have a reasonable technology to get the resources into space to do it.

    Second, in spacesteading (as in seasteading) we don’t want to be seen as aggressors. Yes, we definitely need to be able to defend ourselves, but that’s as far (in my opinion) as it should go. We’ve got no right to exert a claim that other people should leave us alone if we aren’t leaving others alone.

    Third, let’s not get this thread too far off track.

    #15179
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Dervogel707 wrote:

    emmettvm wrote:

    sigh

    Its a very real possibility and we have the technology thats why money sucks. Money is stoping us humans from advancing thats why need to get rid of it imagine having a deathstar up in our sky. This would make for a very good space station too.

    [/quote]

    Ya, they are called E-class asteroids (shiny metallic asteroids) i.e. spaceships.

    One of the largest is Comet-Elenin, recently visisted by Navy Space Command,

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27753-In-The-US-Navy-Space-Command-And-I-Have-Been-To-Elenin&p=283394#post283394

    While they say it should be fine, it did cause a massive storm larger than the planet earth on saturn:

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #15184
    Profile photo of Sickor
    Sickor
    Participant

    elspru wrote:

    Dervogel707 wrote:

    emmettvm wrote:

    sigh

    Its a very real possibility and we have the technology thats why money sucks. Money is stoping us humans from advancing thats why need to get rid of it imagine having a deathstar up in our sky. This would make for a very good space station too.

    [/quote]

    Ya, they are called E-class asteroids (shiny metallic asteroids) i.e. spaceships.

    One of the largest is Comet-Elenin, recently visisted by Navy Space Command,

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27753-In-The-US-Navy-Space-Command-And-I-Have-Been-To-Elenin&p=283394#post283394

    While they say it should be fine, it did cause a massive storm larger than the planet earth on saturn:

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    [/quote]

    Elspru, I can’t thank you enough for sharing this! I always knew the military had more to do with space tahn NASA did.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15185
    Profile photo of Dervogel707
    Dervogel707
    Participant

    But Ken a deathstar would be very good for spacesteading something to hold many people. The article does’t mention if or if not we can shoot it into space but maybe we can construct it in space. We do have the technology though even for the laser.

    #15188
    Profile photo of Sickor
    Sickor
    Participant

    Actually on the other hand, if we were to live on the death star, then I can see more use for it….something to think about.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15183
    Profile photo of Sickor
    Sickor
    Participant

    Dervogel707 wrote:

    Sickor violence is a part of life it is only natural to hate some or something and I may sound mean and evil but isnt evil and mean only a perspective? When your hungry you eat when your tired you sleep when your angry you…? We need protection dont think of weapons as violent killing evil things think of them as something to be used as protection. Everyone hears deathstar and thinks of Star Wars and they think of the sith’s purpose for the Deathstar. I think this will be more used as a space station but a laser that can destroy a whole planet wont either.

    Imagine if luke had the deathstar. Those are my hopes for us.

    I don’t think it is worth the vast amount of metal we would need, plus what happens if it falls into the wrong hands? And violence isn’t a part of life, we become violent because of how we are raised in our envirmoent, we are raised to believe that war is a neccessary evil, but yet this is not so. It is all about where and how you were brought up. Now unfortunately do we need to defend uor selves? Yes but do we need to waste the resources on something that can destroy an entire planet? I don’t think so, its one thing for self defense but if th emilitaries on the planet all turned against us, and that is maybe a couple million people, are you going to blow up the entire planet and all the billions of innocent civilians? Doesn’t make sense to me…

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    “They must find it difficult, those that take authority as truth, instead of truth as authority”

    #15189
    Profile photo of Renny
    Renny
    Participant

    It is Labor Day weekend and I have some time so i’ll do something I don’t normally do… spend some time posting in a thread. I am an older man who has had the rather good job of tracking technologies and consulting about them for over thirty years and spending most of my time overseas doing it. I have recently returned from seven years in China and yes… I am glad to be home. The impetus for this post was a simple one word post. It simply said “Sigh”.

    When I see this in CEO’s and others it always makes me cringe. It is a tacit admission that they have given up and consider most solutions wishful thinking. A chorus of agreement/wishful thinking from others usually follows. The truth is that they have become so tired of looking that they got lazy and didn’t see the solutions right in front of them alreadly being created and simply asking to be exploited. What I do is track new and developing techs, evaluate their probable efficacy, and plan for their exploitation at an approprate and cost effectve time/place. In thirty years my success rate has exceeded 97%.

    In my previous post I remarked that many things came down to financial and poltical issues when stopped or slowed and some immediately went the woe is me evils of money route. I think this is understandable but it is an attitude born more out of frustration and unrealistic assessments than anything else. That money is innapropriately used by most these days does in no way change the fact that it (or its’ concept) is an irreplacable driver of human advancement. People spend/invest with ther minds and hearts based on confidence in return. Confidence is in short supply these days but it is still out there.

    Good examples of this are Bigelow Aerospace, Virgin Galactic, and Space-X. Each of these has a common factor. Pioneering Men at the helm who invest with their minds and hearts. There are many more and many more than that waiting in the wings. It is a matter of confidence. Bigelow has done more with a concept in ten years than NASA did in thirty with an order of magnitude less money. Space-X is doing far more for far less already and is a newcomer with at least five solid competitors. Virgins’ hardware is still small but scaled to the size of a 747 can do a great deal more (something already in development). These and many more are making a future that s much closer than most grasp.

    All of these people have something in common… they did not ‘sigh’ much less blink. Robert Bigelow bet half a bill and will likely win. Compare that to the Sea Launch option at Sealaunch.com. It is estimated at a 600m project… only 20% more than Bigelow and very doable. It will put commodity cargoes in orbit for $200-300 a kilo and ties seasteading to space in one of the many ways they are tied. They have the same problem Bigelow has at the moment. No infrastructure to deal with the launches once they are in space. A problem that is rapidly evaporating just as the regulatory issues of ITAR started doing for Bigelow once they approached it properly.

    A subject like this must also take into account the global aspect. These projects and technologies are not even half the story. They are the minutia argued about before the real game begins. The current international treaty regarding space will soon be meaningless. It states that no one can own anything up there. It also states that anyone can withdraw from the treaty with a one year notice. Those notices will be flying very very shortly after the first successful space venture that needs real estate to function appears. It is well known that those assets are of tremendous value. One square kilometer of nickel iron asteroid can supply enough base metals, radioactives, and so on to support global industry for ten years. Ceres is estimated to have more fresh water than the Earth… we will know for sure when the Dawn craft arrives… and the list goes on and on.

    I have returned to the States many times in my life and seen many changes. This time I saw a change I had never before seen. The spirit of Americans is waning. I hear this ‘sigh’ a lot. We are just as capable as ever. It is a leadership issue. Americans are abdicating their personal leadership. These politicians and biz guys don’t really lead. You do. Their confidence is based in you. Stop talking about aliens, wishful thinking, death stars, and pie in the sky. Get informed…. vette these projects and people… and most of all be involved in solutions. Opportunity does not only knock once. Anyone who believes that never got outside… it is everywhere. Show them you believe and support/stand for something real that is happening now. It is simple… just put your time and money where your mouth is. Even if it is only a few dollars and minutes a week you will start to inspire confidence in the ‘leaders’. It is the average guy who truly leads and the others can do nothing without you. Start speaking in one voice to go and they will go… build it and they will build it.

    It is the spirit they don’t see and erodes their confidence… not what they believe they can or cannot do. It is the average guy who will ultimately tell this tale.

    Many wonder why i’m so big on Bigelow. It is simple. Everything is waiting on infrastructure in situ. They are by far the best shot for the rapid development of exactly that. Anything that promotes them promotes that. Once we have that a new age in space dawns. I have watched them for years and participated when possible. It didn’t cost much and made a huge difference. Pick something real… anything… and get behind it. It will matter and that is important. Idiot is a greek word that simply means one who does not vote or by personal action makes himself someone who does not matter. Stand for something real… don’t be an idiot.

    Nuff said for now.

    #15191
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Oh, my sigh was not directed at what I think to be impossible, or even improbable. In fact, it had nothing to do with lack of confidence – confidence in human ingenuity is something I have in spades.

    My sigh was rather directly focused at the absurd views that have been espoused here in this thread. Views, I have come to realize, are born from those who get all of their opinions from the world directly or indirectly from the internet. Not to say there is not a massive amount of valuable, true, and amazing information to be found online – but rather to say that such is the proverbial diamond in the rough, and were one to examine twenty threads of information to their source, more often than not all twenty would be founded upon collective ignorance. The internet has given us the ability to share insights and knowledge like never before, at its best, and it has reinforced a narrow view of the world that is not only preconceived much of the time but also counterfeit or even entirely contrived the rest of the time, at its worse.

    Im actually going to never read anything on this website again about space because of Sickor, Dervogel, and the other people whose views are so incredibly poisoned by corrupted logic that they cannot even smell the shit from the sight of the cowpatty.

    I have extremely optimistic views of humanity’s future in space, and in many other technological fields, but I came to this place for pragmatic visionary conversation and thought, not for violent refual of reason and blind assertions based upon as much reality as their “the moon is hollow ’cause aliens did it” farce.

    This subject has so much promise and is an amazing and worthy topic, but there are those here who have made it toxic, and I lament that.

    #15197
    Profile photo of HopDavid
    HopDavid
    Participant

    Renny wrote:

    It is Labor Day weekend and I have some time so i’ll do something I don’t normally do… spend some time posting in a thread. I am an older man who has had the rather good job of tracking technologies and consulting about them for over thirty years and spending most of my time overseas doing it. I have recently returned from seven years in China and yes… I am glad to be home. The impetus for this post was a simple one word post. It simply said “Sigh”.

    Earlier I had responded to one of your posts:

    - – -

    Renny wrote:

    Actually… adapted Hyperion modules and other nuclear based techs can do just that. The problems are political… not technological… as usual.

    Your link talks mostly about solar etc… when talking such low grade and traditional power sources of course it would be undoable. Seasteading conversations and their relationship to space habitation should be by nature out of the box thinking, cutting edge, and politically edgy. Treaties and such notwithstanding, these are easily developed solutions I am speaking of. As with most such things the problems rapidly become financial and political…. otherwise it would already have happened.

    You evidently haven’t heard of Kirk Sorensen, the fellow who was calling VASIMR’s power source undoable. I don’t think Sorensen’s infallible. But his opinion is more informed than yours, I believe.

    - – -

    Had you seen that reply?

    A discussion on different kinds of rockets would be interesting. I have some arguments that economic space travel with chemical rockets is practical with propellant depots and different propellant sources.

    I doubt we can carry on such a discussion. You probably won’t even see this reply.

    This comment on rocket propulsion will be drowned out by numerous comments on extraterrestrial conspiracies, suggestions to build a death star and other noise.

    I believe that was what the sigh was about.

    Sigh

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