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Slavery

Home Forums Research Law and Politics Slavery

This topic contains 60 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of chadsims chadsims 2 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 61 total)
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  • #11370
    Avatar of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    People govern other people. It’s the most commonly held truth of all societies that exist or have ever existed. All of the behavior you described about children and parents can also apply to any age categories. We have combat trained adults that effectively ‘break the law’ when they don’t show up as ordered. The reason is they are under authority, it’s not abuse it’s governance. These structures have always been designed to protect the weak and young rather than exploit them. Those in authority that do exploit those less fortunate soon have the tables turned as their behavoir is reprehensible. Soldiers go AWOL, wifes leave their husbands, students eventually become the teachers and children eventually grow up to challenge their parents.

    If you think floating in the ocean will change this I’m afraid you are sorely mistaken. The ocean is a dangerous environment and anyone who has spent any time on it knows there is a reason the captain of the vessel has overwhelming command authority… it’s for the safety and benefit of everyone on board. Just be careful who you allow to captain your vessels… this authority can be abused just like any other. The only difference is the ocean is not forgiving of poor judgement and does not discriminate upon the guilty or the innocent. Everyone on board pays the price for the judgements of the captain.

    Huh… doesn’t sound so different than what we’re already used to in land based government. =)

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #11371
    Avatar of Melllvar
    Melllvar
    Participant

    The difference being those combat trained adults chose to put themselves under that authoritative system. Children generally have no say in the matter. Sure, some nations have conscription, drafts, etc. but I’d imagine most of us don’t consider that acceptable in a free society either.

    I’m afraid I just have to disagree that the system is set up to protect children and not exploit them. To some degree it does both, I admit, but we have a long long history of protecting the rights of adults at the expense of the needs of the youth. Overall groups like DCS, Dept. of Ed., the juvenile court system, even non-profits for disadvantaged youths are more concerned with job security for their employees, maintaining themselves as an industry, and with perpetuating their own ideals on a future generation than they are with helping children, or even doing their jobs usually. I actually typed out a long paragraph backing up this statement with many of the things I’ve seen or experienced in my time “in the system,” but, honestly, no one would have believed me anyway. It’s so bad you would literally think I was lying or just crazy if I told you how I and many others had been treated by the school systems, counselors, child psychologists/psychiatrists, the court system, the police, parents, etc. These aren’t a few bad occurrences or exceptions either, it’s the standard.

    I’m sure we’d both agree that a small child is not able to take care of itself and hence needs adults to make decisions for it, but that at some point s/he should be an autonomous individual with control over their own life. Aside from the institutionalized child abuse, I’m mainly just saying that I think they deserve that much earlier than society gives it to them. Not that we should all start seasteading so there won’t be any rules or responsibilities and kids don’t have to go to bed early.

    #11373
    Avatar of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    I think we’ve all made clear our points about slavery and there is a general understanding about how it cannot be tolerated.

    Chris’ (Melllvar) post above is quite insightful. My wife and I provide emergency foster care ‘in the system’ and the minors we have come into contact with have experienced exactly what he’s talking about… the system is NOT set up to provide for children.

    Infact, I’ve only found 1 institution that focuses on the needs of children. That institution is the family. Families are made up of all sizes and shapes and though I have a preference for the 1 husband for 1 wife model, as long as there is love in the home the children will prosper.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #11375
    Avatar of Melllvar
    Melllvar
    Participant

    Yes, sorry for getting so off track with that, it’s just hard not to comment on certain things.

    Back on topic: Slavery is really a topic independent of seasteading, since it already goes on now on land and no one has figured out a universal solution (and as can be seen there are different definitions and interpretations). You’d do the same thing about it you’d do if you found out someone on land was running a slave trade (whatever that would be). I doubt many sane people want to start running slavery operations anyway.

    #11385
    Avatar of OceanPhoenix
    OceanPhoenix
    Participant

    And God knows we don’t need any insane slavers in the community.

    “Fortis cadere, cedere non potest”

    “A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield”

    -Latin Proverb

    #11386
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Thorizan wrote:

    What if someone was under the impression the person was a slave owner, but it turned out that her guests were their by their own free will?

    What would the community do under that case?

    __________________________________________________
    There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Each to his fate.

    Hold on, let me get my crystal ball.

    I have no intention of joining or participating in any community with a rigid process and structure for the addition of rules or laws. I may trade with them, but I’m not gonna join their squirrel club.

    What would redheads do if you “said the lords name in vain”?

    The answer is of course unpredictable.

    One of the hazards of vigilante justice is that the people most willing to resort to violence are generally the least qualified to judge justice impartially or irrationally.

    I would treat such a person as a pariah. I ostersize theives who steal from friends, and idiots who believe in trying to control others. If he made a habbit of the behavior, I’d probable scuttle his ship and chum the waters, if it wasn’t easier to just kill him from a distance.

    Same as any other pirate. Seasteaders are obviously going to have to establish cryptographic authentication processes/transponders to deal with the issue of reputation. Hopefully it would be a system which would allow a deadman’s switch to throw discrediting their ID signature. Preferably in a demonstratable and visual way so as to discourage pirate attacks and incentivize captains not to surrender and cooperate.

    Procedures will be developed. All it will take is a couple of HAM news stories of seasteaders having their wives raped by pirates who were driving their buddies seastead before all the veterans will put together a seasteading handshake ritual.

    It won’t take long for the best handshake rituals to become cultural defactos.

    We shape those rituals in how we design the seasteads.

    For instance: submarines suggest row boats be used to conduct commerce. For transactions which can’t be done in no man’s land on row boats:

    Initiating vessle is subject to search before approach is considered. Suicide/kamikazee bomb attacks are a real threat as valuables can be collected from reckage.

    To an extent: this is designing the arctitecture around the color of paint. The procedures adapt to the structure. Any cross pollunation should be organic or the design will be perverted by a minor design consideration taking precidence over important ones such as cost.

    #11389
    Avatar of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    What would redheads do if you “said the lords name in vain”?

    The answer is of course unpredictable.

    The end of the world… lol.

    #11393
    Avatar of OceanPhoenix
    OceanPhoenix
    Participant

    Suspicion and strange precautions will alienate seasteaders from eachother. There has to be another way to deter pirates. Anyway, I would assume most trade would take place in ports and if a boat comes to board you, no matter their intentions, I would assume most people would keep their distance, unless it is a pre-arranged meeting with a trusted person.

    “Fortis cadere, cedere non potest”

    “A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield”

    -Latin Proverb

    #11405
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    Melllvar wrote:
    I’m afraid I just have to disagree that the system is set up to protect children and not exploit them. To some degree it does both, I admit, but we have a long long history of protecting the rights of adults at the expense of the needs of the youth. Overall groups like DCS, Dept. of Ed., the juvenile court system, even non-profits for disadvantaged youths are more concerned with job security for their employees, maintaining themselves as an industry, and with perpetuating their own ideals on a future generation than they are with helping children, or even doing their jobs usually. [. . .] It’s so bad you would literally think I was lying or just crazy if I told you how I and many others had been treated by the school systems, counselors, child psychologists/psychiatrists, the court system, the police, parents, etc. These aren’t a few bad occurrences or exceptions either, it’s the standard.

    I absolutely agree. I have seen some terrible things done by adults who want to impose their beliefs on children, and I support the right of children to decide to leave any situation which they (the children) consider abusive, and to stay with their family if they (the children) desire it, regardless of what other adults think. This will also require recognition of the inalienable right to work and to enter contracts to be compensated for their labor for all people regardless of age.

    There might need to be a few general rules to work out to account for the most common abuses of such a system, but generally speaking we need to start taking people seriously regardless of age. Some of the adults who I’ve seen mistreating children really, really believed in the rightness of their cause, and otherwise seemed like genial and reasonable people – but they were tyrants nevertheless when it came to the children in their care. In one case it was a foster parent and the child appeared to prefer them to other foster parents because at least they were loved – and that is also valid. It should be the child’s choice, and no one else’s.

    Most children like and love their parents, even if they are abusive, so it is unlikely that many children will avail themselves of their Freedom of Association until they are in their teenage years – at which point they should unquestionably have this right anyhow.

    #11406
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    tusavision wrote:
    I have no intention of joining or participating in any community with a rigid process and structure for the addition of rules or laws. I may trade with them, but I’m not gonna join their squirrel club.

    Ahem.

    I sense a prejudicial comment about squirrels.

    As a longstanding admirer of squirrels and an advocate for sciurarchy (government by the squirrels) I would like to point out some of the advantages of squirrel leadership:

    1. It couldn’t be much worse than what we’ve got.

    2. It might be a little better.

    3. It would sure be more fun to watch!

    Thank you for your consideration.

    #11419
    Avatar of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Re. children, age of majority etc – I support an age of majority that’s somewhere between 12 and 14, since historically that seems to be where it’s fallen, and I’m doubtful that it had any negative social effects: if they had any, they can’t have been that bad, since the socieites still prospered. I recall reading an article in one of my magazines, think it was Scientific American, that claimed that 14 year olds could, and would, act like adults… if they were treated like them. Some people would mature earlier than this, and I think they should have the right to leave home when they do. By the age of 12, though, most people should be well grounded in basic literacy and numeracy skills.

    Re. slavery – I’m okay with it, so long as the person signed a contract, which should come up for renegotiation every 7 years.

    Re. vigilante justice – it depends on how you go about doing it. If your talking about a lone crazy in a small attack boat, then Id be a bit wary. However, if you’re talking about a well organized, volunteer based force funded by donations… then I have to say, do it. I like volunteer governments, and this would be a Volunteer Nightwatchmen Government.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #11426
    Avatar of OceanPhoenix
    OceanPhoenix
    Participant

    A slave is not a slave if he has agreed to it – then he would be a servant.

    I agree. Volunteer governments are the way to go, I think.

    “Fortis cadere, cedere non potest”

    “A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield”

    -Latin Proverb

    #11428
    Avatar of xns
    xns
    Participant

    I for one, welcome our new squirrel overlords! Let the enslavement of mankind begin! All Hail Emperor Bushytail!

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #11429
    Avatar of Thorizan
    Thorizan
    Participant

    Bushytail was recently overthrown by a coup lead by Nuts-in-Cheeks. His tail, along with the rest of him, has since been made significantly less bushy.

    __________________________________________________
    There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Each to his fate.

    #11437
    Avatar of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    Is it just me or does this squirrel obsession remind me of “Foamy the Squirrel”? Anyone else a fan?

    http://www.illwillpress.com

    Most of the newer toons are a bit on the vulgar over sexualized side. The early stuff was great. “Nuts to you”, “Squirrelly Wrath”, “Your Lord and Master”, “Squirrel Songs”…. classic! Personally, the nerdy Pill-zy is my man.

    But I digress… what’s this thread about again?

    Live Well!

    -Jason

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 61 total)

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