1. Skip to navigation
  2. Skip to content
  3. Skip to sidebar




Slavery

Home Forums Research Law and Politics Slavery

This topic contains 60 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of chadsims chadsims 2 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 61 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1337
    Avatar of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    What if you were in a seastead community made up of several individual pods that could come and go as they please. And one of those pods includes someone who owns slaves, using slave labor for everything from selling sex to selling goods.

    What would be the seastead solution for this?

    #11246
    Avatar of Thorizan
    Thorizan
    Participant

    The question answers itself. You’ve chosen to live on “a seastead community made up of several individual pods that could come and go as they please.”

    If you pleased to leave, due to your new neighbor, then, you have that right, unlike the slaves on her ship.

    __________________________________________________
    There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Each to his fate.

    #11260
    Avatar of Melllvar
    Melllvar
    Participant

    Have a dive team infiltrate the seastead at night and start a slave uprising.

    Or maybe just report it to some organization that fights slavery, I’m sure someone’s navy would take offense to a boat full of slavers in international waters. That might be easier.

    #11296
    Avatar of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    I’d think that the situation you posed would answer the question. If there was a seasteading society that allowed it’s members to come and go as they pleased, there would have to be some formal agreement to guarantee that this freedom exists. If a slaver brought slaves into this community, this freedom would extend to them (and the slaver barred from using force to keep them enslaved) or the community would have freedom only extend to the individual seasteading units (and thus the slaves could only be free if they escape).

    I would think, to keep seasteaders safe from slavers grabbing them when moving from one unit to another within a seastead, that communities would build this freedom into a personal right for all to enjoy. This would make coming to such a community a poor decision for one owning slaves.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #11298
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Yes with barter calculation system,

    can calculate how much damage to inflict on slaver, or prison.

    The slaves or prisoners could be queried to see if they wish to leave, and how long they have been there.

    (time+mass)^chakra = price

    so at 256grams per hour, a prisoner is chakra 3.0 since they do nothing and a slave is chakra 3.2 since they do work.

    the prison being a residence be 3.8 (hexadecimal) so 3.5 in decimal

    root((256 * 24 * 365)^3.125, 3.5) = approx. 468066.12

    so one slave for 1 year is worth about half a ton of the prison.

    root((256 * 24 * 365 * 5 * 5)^3.125, 3.5) = approx. 8288347.1

    5 slaves for 5 years isa little over 8.2 tons.

    so the slave or prisoners give you a slip or money transfer

    seller be prisoner

    buyer be prison

    product be life and service for number of years

    payment be freedom of the seller

    collector be you

    So then you have a contract showing the debt,

    and that you have the ability to collect the debt, by freeing the seller.

    inflicting as much damage as their services were worth,

    potentially confiscating items there is surplus after damage,

    so that the balance could be paid in full.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #11301
    Avatar of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    elspru wrote:

    Yes with barter calculation system,

    can calculate how much damage to inflict on slaver, or prison.

    The slaves or prisoners could be queried to see if they wish to leave, and how long they have been there.

    (time+mass)^chakra = price

    so at 256grams per hour, a prisoner is chakra 3.0 since they do nothing and a slave is chakra 3.2 since they do work.

    the prison being a residence be 3.8 (hexadecimal) so 3.5 in decimal

    root((256 * 24 * 365)^3.125, 3.5) = approx. 468066.12

    so one slave for 1 year is worth about half a ton of the prison.

    root((256 * 24 * 365 * 5 * 5)^3.125, 3.5) = approx. 8288347.1

    5 slaves for 5 years isa little over 8.2 tons.

    so the slave or prisoners give you a slip or money transfer

    seller be prisoner

    buyer be prison

    product be life and service for number of years

    payment be freedom of the seller

    collector be you

    So then you have a contract showing the debt,

    and that you have the ability to collect the debt, by freeing the seller.

    inflicting as much damage as their services were worth,

    potentially confiscating items there is surplus after damage,

    so that the balance could be paid in full.

    [/quote]

    Uhhh… Loki (elspru)… no offense man, but you’ve got some odd theories. Between the posts with ufos all over the place, this chakra math, and your ultra detailed measurements of a vessel you don’t have I’m beginning to think you’ve got a tenuous connection to reality. Then again, we’re talking about a society on the waves… so we’re all a bit crazy.

    In an effort to cooperate with your active participation here I want to offer the following suggestion: Post using generally accepted information. For instance, in your above post I have no idea what you’re saying and if it relates to the topic at hand. I’m not saying that the ufos aren’t coming to steal our chakras because our vessel width is 0.003 of an inch too wide to go undetected in the burmuda triangle… I’m just saying such a wealth of knowledge is not helpful in most of our discussions here.

    Once we’re all floating, I can’t wait to meet you! Something tells me that I might need a respirator to avoid a contact high when that day comes.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #11302
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    Yea, Jason couldn’t have said it better… Hear, hear!

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    elspru wrote:

    Yes with barter calculation system,

    can calculate how much damage to inflict on slaver, or prison.

    The slaves or prisoners could be queried to see if they wish to leave, and how long they have been there.

    (time+mass)^chakra = price

    so at 256grams per hour, a prisoner is chakra 3.0 since they do nothing and a slave is chakra 3.2 since they do work.

    the prison being a residence be 3.8 (hexadecimal) so 3.5 in decimal

    root((256 * 24 * 365)^3.125, 3.5) = approx. 468066.12

    so one slave for 1 year is worth about half a ton of the prison.

    root((256 * 24 * 365 * 5 * 5)^3.125, 3.5) = approx. 8288347.1

    5 slaves for 5 years isa little over 8.2 tons.

    so the slave or prisoners give you a slip or money transfer

    seller be prisoner

    buyer be prison

    product be life and service for number of years

    payment be freedom of the seller

    collector be you

    So then you have a contract showing the debt,

    and that you have the ability to collect the debt, by freeing the seller.

    inflicting as much damage as their services were worth,

    potentially confiscating items there is surplus after damage,

    so that the balance could be paid in full.

    [/quote]

    Uhhh… Loki (elspru)… no offense man, but you’ve got some odd theories. Between the posts with ufos all over the place, this chakra math, and your ultra detailed measurements of a vessel you don’t have I’m beginning to think you’ve got a tenuous connection to reality. Then again, we’re talking about a society on the waves… so we’re all a bit crazy.

    In an effort to cooperate with your active participation here I want to offer the following suggestion: Post using generally accepted information. For instance, in your above post I have no idea what you’re saying and if it relates to the topic at hand. I’m not saying that the ufos aren’t coming to steal our chakras because our vessel width is 0.003 of an inch too wide to go undetected in the burmuda triangle… I’m just saying such a wealth of knowledge is not helpful in most of our discussions here.

    Once we’re all floating, I can’t wait to meet you! Something tells me that I might need a respirator to avoid a contact high when that day comes.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    [/quote]

    I wouldn’t dismiss what he’s saying. The ideas are intriquing although I find his math a little bit hard to follow. The idea being that a slave’s net value is determined by their ability to generate revenue, minus their expense.

    Since you live on a floating platform: for buoyancy reasons weight is an expense. A chakra may be a variable he uses. I don’t quite follow, but let’s suppose we use concrete submersible spheres as our metric. If we have a limited number of lifeboats(we do) and each 1 man life boat costs X dollars: every breathing organism subject to decompression illness has a monetary liability.

    This liability is ultimately derived from the market price of the concrete used to build this pressure sphere and the value of the time of it’s builder.

    So where

    S=market value of single man submarine

    B=market value of buoyancy used to keep them, their tools, and their sustinance afloat.

    L=market value of their life support equipment

    N=initial cost of enslavement

    R=real estate consumed by SBL beyond their work environment

    E=social cost of boycotts/ethical reservations

    G=cost of security per slave

    M=market value of a slave

    P=profit from a slave

    J=slave business owners wage

    I=Interest rates on business overhead(L+B+S+N)

    and recognizing that capital has an expense: we can express the economics of slavery.

    eg.

    For slavery to be an issue: P>I+J

    where P=M-(G+E+R)

    That’s an expression of viability, but he could also be talking about socialized expenses and calculating them for tax purposes. The obvious ones are: weight, real estate, life support, security, crime, wage supression, unemployment, and most significantly: bad publicity->lost revenues.

    All these things taken in to account: the only viable marketable goods a slave could bring to the table would be drug muling and sex slavery. Nothing else that I can think of would be profitable enough to justify the appropriate taxation for such a thing.

    #11308
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    Chakras have to do with life-energy. morality of action, and so on. Slavery, by its’ very nature, is amoral or immoral, therefore negative. Imprisonment requires more, due to simple logistics of food, energy and space usage. Imprisonment is a short-term solution, with negative impact(economically). Slaves, doing work, have fewer economic impacts, because they are productive, even though they have the same basic economical needs as a prisoner.

    That said, I do not believe slavery is a viable option, in this day and age,

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #11317
    Avatar of OceanPhoenix
    OceanPhoenix
    Participant

    Tell the nearest first world, non-corrupt government. I’d watch it though, governments would begin to think of us as a liability if they keep having to deal with slavery issues. Might be better to have several rules of the ocean, preventing slavery, piracy and general misconduct. If anybody breaks those rules, they are no longer sanctioned by or part of the community. Bear in mind also that few profitable ports would tolerate slavery. Bar (most of) the third-world. Even then, many third-world companies would not trade with slavers either for moral reasons or for fear of government involvement.

    “Fortis cadere, cedere non potest”

    “A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield”

    -Latin Proverb

    #11322
    Avatar of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Any Seastead that has slaves will soon find a Naval vessel or 10 surrounding it – it’s one of the reasons which allow the Navy of any country to search a boat/ship on the high seas.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #11327
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    Um, couldn’t we just shoot the slaveowner?

    I mean, maybe that’s a bit simplistic, but as much as I dislike a complicated web of irrational laws that apply to everyone, I’m in favor of a few inalienable rights, including the right to Life, Liberty, and Property – except for those who deny these rights to others (like slaveowners). Just because we want to be free to live our lives the way we choose does not mean that we need to rid ourselves of every law.

    #11330
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Alan wrote:

    Um, couldn’t we just shoot the slaveowner?

    I mean, maybe that’s a bit simplistic, but as much as I dislike a complicated web of irrational laws that apply to everyone, I’m in favor of a few inalienable rights, including the right to Life, Liberty, and Property – except for those who deny these rights to others (like slaveowners). Just because we want to be free to live our lives the way we choose does not mean that we need to rid ourselves of every law.

    Well I’d just like you to note that this would include prisonkeepers, as they are a form of slaveowner.

    If indeed they have racked up enough debt, that it’s more than they will produce in their expected lifetime,

    then it is certainly viable to collect the debt by killing their host-body, letting their soul try again.

    The barter calculation system I described earlier allows people to be accountable in their actions.

    Say for instance someone is restrained for a single day,

    or somoeones parents force their child to do the dishes,

    these are actions while karmically desctructive,

    are typically compensatable with gifts.

    The barter calculation system allows people to calculate how much of what kind of gift is required to balance the karma.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #11336
    Avatar of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    I ask this because I could see something like this happening. With the sex slave trade going on all over the world, there’s no reason to believe that it wouldn’t move toward such a community without laws.

    My main solution to all of this would be to not interact with the person if you don’t like what they’re doing. Don’t buy from them and don’t purchase what they’re selling. If a whole community were to do this, there would be no reason for them to do this.

    But I would imagine that a vessel selling sex for cheap would not have trouble finding consumers. And thus they would thrive with wealth. Seeing the amount of people willing to take money from governments, with no care for the source, it would appear that most people would take money from the vessel in exchange for their own goods.

    And intervening from one vessel to the slave vessel is basically an act of war. Just as the US might go into a country for some moral purpose, this would be the same. You would be attacking the vessel based on something you don’t approve of going on in that vessel. Where does it end? What if you don’t like people doing drugs or worshiping Jesus?

    And why would you intervene only with that vessel when the rest of the world is run by governments that perpetuate their own attrocities that we obviously don’t approve of, otherwise we wouldn’t be wanting to move out into the Sea. Why not go into Cuba and free the oppressed? Or have raids into Guantanamo or US prisons?

    Would it be a laissez fair society or would it be about the strongest vessel with the most firepower controlling things?

    But then, if nothing is done to someone keeping slaves on their vessel. What if you were to go visit your neighbor for breakfast and they subdue you and take you as a slave and float away? Would you be pretty much screwed with no help?

    http://www.TheRonPaulTeaParty.com

    #11337
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    First of all, the “sex slave trade” is not widespread. The fear of a sex slave trade has been used for centuries as a way to control people – from the days when the pirates from North Africa enslaved all who came their way (and occasionally attacked coastal villages as far as Ireland) to the U.S.A. in the 1850s when fear of white northern women being enslaved under the guise of the fugitive slave laws and being sold to slave brothels in New Orleans (where many of the slave prostitutes were only 1/4 or less of African descent and could “pass” for white), to Victorian England where child prostitution was not uncommon and opponents of prostitution pretended they were practically enslaved, to the current push against prostitution in the Netherlands with the claim that most of the prostitutes have been forced into their trade and the tall tales of a coercive sex trade in Eastern Europe and parts of Asia.

    As you will note, some of the earlier examples were real – and they were also in societies where real slavery was legal. Nor will I claim that there are no sex slaves in the modern world – but more generally these prostitutes are pushed into their trade by poverty or even greed, not by force. However, a number of hypocritical do-gooders have found that sex sells, and sex slavery really sells, and that they can get lots of donations from good-hearted people if they make wild claims about the size of the sex slave trade. As one example, during the recent World Cup in South Africa there were claims that over a hundred thousand sex slaves would be brought in from other parts of Africa to service all the visitors. The police discovered zero cases of such, and less than ten cases of prostitutes who had willingly moved to the area.

    It should also be noted that, in areas where prostitution is illegal, prostitutes might be likely to claim that they were sex slaves if they are caught by law enforcement. In the United States, for instance, sex slaves can apply for asylum, whereas regular prostitutes cannot. Naturally that provides an incentive for prostitutes to lie and support the official statistics, which in turn means more funding for the police to combat this evil. Despite this, confirmed cases of sexual slavery in developed countries remain very rare.

    My point here is that this is not the huge issue that it may appear to be, and can be resolved through normal police work and a general anti-slavery policy. I don’t think many seasteaders will be interested in participating in slavery in any way, shape, or form – and any who do are likely to find themselves isolated, arrested, or dead. Just because we don’t like a multitude of laws that act like a straitjacket doesn’t mean that we don’t appreciate laws that are actually for the public good.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 61 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.



Posted on at

Categories:

Written by

Blog/Newsletter

Donate