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Simple design principle

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This topic contains 111 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of shredder7753 shredder7753 3 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 112 total)
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  • #12477
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    good job guys! so when do we start building this thing? tomorrow or the next day? or should we wait for Patri and friends to get back from their cruise?

    Rich

    #12478
    Profile photo of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster
    shredder7753 wrote:

    good job guys! so when do we start building this thing? tomorrow or the next day? or should we wait for Patri and friends to get back from their cruise?

    Rich

    You’re paying for it? After all, you are the one that’s Rich.

    #12479
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    It starts small, with just a couple of trysteads:

    but before long, it starts to grow!

    and grow and grow ad infinum grow!!!

    (the middle triangle is a floating platform)

    -um, i hope the hinges can be designed for all the scalability.

    still Rich

    #12480
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    shredder7753 wrote:

    good job guys! so when do we start building this thing? tomorrow or the next day? or should we wait for Patri and friends to get back from their cruise?

    Rich

    Well first you would need to find space in a drydock big enough to build that out….

    #12482
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Distorted wrote:

    shredder7753 wrote:

    good job guys! so when do we start building this thing? tomorrow or the next day? or should we wait for Patri and friends to get back from their cruise?

    Rich

    Well first you would need to find space in a drydock big enough to build that out….

    [/quote]

    the trystead is only 20m/side

    #12483
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    good job guys! so when do we start building this thing? tomorrow or the next day? or should we wait for Patri and friends to get back from their cruise?

    Rich

    I sense a hurricane of disappointment on the horizon. If you want to talk about designs, pseudo-naval engineering, green energy, or possible social implications for seasteads then you can see that Patri and the boys at TSI have built a framework for those conversations. If you want to talk about actually building something, look no further than the two hands you use to type these posts. If you don’t see an answer there I’m afraid you won’t find one anywhere else in TSI.

    I know Wil works with concrete and has experimented with some square modules that can raft up well. Maybe you could ask him for a quote. If things work out then the only thing stopping you will be finances. Here you can use your wallet or nothing. No banks will finance this work and TSI is not interested in using its funds to construct experimental seasteads (and yes, all seasteads by their very nature ARE experimental).

    Nice pictures though.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #12484
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Ellmer, u’ve done square? well heres a square to compare:

    it has my usual 2 interior layers. for the small one i used the scale tool to make it 25m per side, down from the larger one thats 100m. if the bevel was a little steeper it would be very raftable. each interior level has 3m height, and the ballast level at the bottom has 1 m.

    Rich

    #12485
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    shredder7753 wrote:

    good job guys! so when do we start building this thing? tomorrow or the next day? or should we wait for Patri and friends to get back from their cruise?

    Rich

    I sense a hurricane of disappointment on the horizon. If you want to talk about designs, pseudo-naval engineering, green energy, or possible social implications for seasteads then you can see that Patri and the boys at TSI have built a framework for those conversations. If you want to talk about actually building something, look no further than the two hands you use to type these posts. If you don’t see an answer there I’m afraid you won’t find one anywhere else in TSI.

    I know Wil works with concrete and has experimented with some square modules that can raft up well. Maybe you could ask him for a quote. If things work out then the only thing stopping you will be finances. Here you can use your wallet or nothing. No banks will finance this work and TSI is not interested in using its funds to construct experimental seasteads (and yes, all seasteads by their very nature ARE experimental).

    Nice pictures though.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    [/quote]

    Pretty much. If you seem to be on to something or throw a good party you may be able to convince some people to come visit you for a month and help with construction, but you would have to demonstrate significant progress by yourself for that to be likely.

    Otherwise, you’re on your one, which means you would be wise to start with small scale models and increase the size as the models demonstrate potential.

    Equilateral triangles are a good choice. They are the foundational geometry of any surface structure I would be inclined to build, although I’m more of “weld together pipe” type of guy.

    #12486
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    im more concerned with selling this stuff than building it. im not looking for a way to run from civilization, but i really believe in the concept of seasteading. of course humanity will start living en masse on the high seas, its only a matter of time. i just wanta help lead the way!

    any of us who want to profit from this industry need to put together a catalog of thoughtfully developed products and services. has anyone seen the conan o’brian clip explaining egypt protesters with the help of yogi bear (http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/showbiz/2011/02/03/conan.egypt.crisis.tbs.html)? its funny how israel really is the little turtle in that perspective. maybe jewish people would be a good market for these. they do have money and theyre never at peace in the current situation.

    maybe a topic for another thread – markets.

    Rich

    #12488
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Well, if you can make a buck, of course. But the market (boat market) is shut now. People are having a hard time selling a 12′ dinghy for $300,..

    Use it as a business or as residence. Whatever works. But before you ever think of building, you have to ask yourself few questions:

    1. How much is gonna cost? That’s relative to size and size is relative to the size of you wallet.
    2. How would I build it? There are few methods to do a ferrocement hull other than the traditional one.
    3. Where do I build it? You have to be in a boatyard by the water. That’s expensive. If your beam is bigger than 25′ – feet , yes- you cannot splash using the slings since the hauling out basins aren’t wider then 25′. You will have to hire a crane and they will charge you $ 10k-20k, depending how big you are.
    4. Why? Business or pleasure. If pleasure, why bother building it since for a fraction of the price you can get a cheap ass houseboat or a sailboat. If for business, you have to plan it in detail. Keep in mind that if you are building for a business, it is a new “boat” construction and the Coast Guard will supervise your building process in order to certify you as commercial.

    All fhis “staff” it’s not easy when you get down to it. If you want to build as you said @ 10m (30′ per size) you can actually get away with it for relatively cheap, if you know what your doing and if you build it yourself to cut labor costs. So, do you know what you are doing? I mean, have you ever build anything, marine in particular? If you didn’t, then you might have to hire people, and this guys won’t get out of bed for less than $80/hr.

    #12490
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Well the problem is i dont really see seasteading as a viable opportunity unless theres at least 50 people living there. the simple logistics of being 200 miles away from everything is really freekin hard! even if you use a boat instead of a helicopter its gonna cost a fortune to buy such a boat and pay for fuel. 400 miles round trip and a 3-4 day excursion when little timmy or tanya has to see the dentist. whats the least number times per year you can come back ashore? 4 times? 2 times? doesnt sound like much of a lifestyle to me. i do have fun playing with the art work though.

    i’d really like to put one of these in the middle of a cat. 5 just to demonstrate its durability.

    Rich

    #12491
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    Well the problem is i dont really see seasteading as a viable opportunity unless theres at least 50 people living there.

    might have to wait for me and my tribe to amass 50 people then. lol

    the simple logistics of being 200 miles away from everything is really freekin hard!

    yar, if you can evade the predators,

    then you can reside in an area much closer.

    even if you use a boat instead of a helicopter its gonna cost a fortune to buy such a boat and pay for fuel.

    fuel? just use ocen-water to make oxyhydrogen,

    for energy use solar, wind or wave.

    400 miles round trip and a 3-4 day excursion when little timmy or tanya has to see the dentist.

    Dentist are just there to break your face and take your money. lol, well enough of then anyhow.

    As long as you eat healthy food, avoiding sugar, flouride, tobacco, coccao, beetl-nuts, you should be fine.

    whats the least number times per year you can come back ashore? 4 times? 2 times? doesnt sound like much of a lifestyle to me.

    Hey you can visit as many times as you like,

    can even bring seastead closer to shore,

    so long as you can keep it safe or secret.

    i do have fun playing with the art work though.

    i’d really like to put one of these in the middle of a cat. 5 just to demonstrate its durability.

    those platforms look much larger than a catamaran.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move





    #12499

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    One think that was generally agreed here was that seasteading should be incremental. But what I have noticed recently is that not only TSI (not criticism-just observation) but some other members here have somehow “forgot” about incrementalist values and the “talk” now is about big structures that require $ millions in building and operating capital. Also, it seems to me that we did bypassed baysteading and costalsteading for good and we are going straight offshore (since we are planning on huge structures now). This “shift” of focus and “policy” from what was started as a grassroot seasteading movment to the present state of,…”whatever this state of seasteading is in as we speak”, didn’t do much for seasteading in general since there is nothing on the water so far with seasteading written on it and also no clear path ahead of us. To sum it up, STAGNATION, with capital letters.

    Everybody now is talking about business and more business of seasteading. But it’s just cheap talk, no action, no organization whatsoever into seasteading small cells to starts something small and grow from there. Meanwhile, everybody seems to be waiting for TSI to build their beloved seastead, “Dinner is ready, boys and girls, come on down, have a sit and chow.” sort of attitude. What is totally overlooked is the fact that while of course seasteading should be run as a business, it should also be set up as an example and an opportiunity to encourage people to try a seasteading lifestyle. And that can be only done by example and action alone.

    Now, I don’t know if 50 people or10 or how many might be considered for a seasteading “opportunity”. And what “opportunity” we are talking about here? To live the “Seasteading Dream”? To all get rich on a seastead and have @ least 2 personal jetskis per family, a nice “house” with a backyard overlooking the ocean, and a steady 9 to 5 job? Dreams man,…Look no further than the so called “American Dream”, still being a hightmare for humdreds of millions working their buds off 2 jobs to just barely make rent and eat shity foods full of added sugar, chemicals and growth hormones while the goverment is collecting taxes so they can live large on Capitol Hill and run trillion dollars deficits.

    The “opportunity” is of a different nature, I dare to say. To live freely, rewrite the social and political contract handbook while enjoying a peacefull, happy, plentifull and modest life on the ocean.

    I agree that getting the hands dirty with a actual platform building is of essence.

    As most on this thread already know i am favoring 2 basic concepts the modular flat float and the substead concept.

    What concerns the modular flat float i started experimenting with building cubes and assemble them to platforms, reproducing the concept of chambered flat floats like the Nkossa Barge in a family seastead capeable size using 1x1x1m concrete cubes.

    The other concept in test is a lens shape where we start with a core of 2m diameter and build it up to house size using more or less the rion-antirion bridge pylon concept on smaller scale.

    For substeads we have ians 200 ton hull finished and in the final phase of a 150m movement to the water. This substead is the room and space equivalent of a 68 squaremeter apartment.

    If somebody thinks that this might be a interesting approach please comment … in fact we do not really need millionary budgets to float something out – we have a R&D branch in south america testing all kind of concepts on a total budget of USD 5000/month.

    If we had a bit wider R&D funding we could do amazing things.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #12498
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I see that we are on a different wave length here. Let me clarify a bit.

    When I said that you could maybe live on it I didn’t mean 200nm offshore, lol, but on a mooring, 10 min dinghy ride from shore. By doing so, not only that you will be saving money (it’s a known fact that rent it’s the biggest expense of a housefold here in US), but by investing this saved money into building more tristeads and continue to raft them up to the existing ones, one day you will be achieving that critical mass able to sustain a certain amount of “population” and also be able now to “transfer” offshore and aim for statehood. Now, I don’t know anything about you personally, for examle how old are you, where do you live, if you work for a living and support yourself or go to school, etc. So, the previous statement of my part might not apply to you or your existing livelihood,…

    One think that was generally agreed here was that seasteading should be incremental. But what I have noticed recently is that not only TSI (not criticism-just observation) but some other members here have somehow “forgot” about incrementalist values and the “talk” now is about big structures that require $ millions in building and operating capital. Also, it seems to me that we did bypassed baysteading and costalsteading for good and we are going straight offshore (since we are planning on huge structures now). This “shift” of focus and “policy” from what was started as a grassroot seasteading movment to the present state of,…”whatever this state of seasteading is in as we speak”, didn’t do much for seasteading in general since there is nothing on the water so far with seasteading written on it and also no clear path ahead of us. To sum it up, STAGNATION, with capital letters.

    Everybody now is talking about business and more business of seasteading. But it’s just cheap talk, no action, no organization whatsoever into seasteading small cells to starts something small and grow from there. Meanwhile, everybody seems to be waiting for TSI to build their beloved seastead, “Dinner is ready, boys and girls, come on down, have a sit and chow.” sort of attitude. What is totally overlooked is the fact that while of course seasteading should be run as a business, it should also be set up as an example and an opportiunity to encourage people to try a seasteading lifestyle. And that can be only done by example and action alone.

    Now, I don’t know if 50 people or10 or how many might be considered for a seasteading “opportunity”. And what “opportunity” we are talking about here? To live the “Seasteading Dream”? To all get rich on a seastead and have @ least 2 personal jetskis per family, a nice “house” with a backyard overlooking the ocean, and a steady 9 to 5 job? Dreams man,…Look no further than the so called “American Dream”, still being a hightmare for humdreds of millions working their butts off 2 jobs to just barely make rent and eat shity foods full of added sugar, chemicals and growth hormones while the goverment is collecting taxes so they can live large on Capitol Hill and run trillion dollars deficits.

    The “opportunity” is of a different nature, I dare to say. To live freely, rewrite the social and political contract handbook while enjoying a peacefull, happy, plentifull and modest life on the ocean.

    #12503

    shredder7753 wrote:
    … the cost of mooring beyond the EEZ is prohibitive and dynamic positioning is a must…

    Have not seen any prove for this postulate anywhere – on contrary – i see oil rigs anchoring in the required depth on a dayly base. If dynamic positioning is better – why would oil rigs insist in mooring?

    shredder7753 wrote:
    … it will not PROVE anything to spend money on cubes of concrete until we have a complete MODEL…

    Can not see the logic in this postulate – if i can build one cube without seeping that lasts for ever in seawater conditions – i have already prove for a lot of things – for example that the whole forum of “how to waterprove concrete and how to coat it is absolute obsolete. I give you foto 1 below instead of a lenghty theorical discussion.

    If i can connect 8 cubes decently to a floating platform i proved that i can connect any number of cubes to any size and shape of platform that my customers might desire.

    basicly i prove that the chambered flat float design of the nkossa barge can not only be done in giant industrial scale but also in single family seastead scale – and it can be done modular assembled on the water. In the process i figure out a lot about practical applying and getting it done that i would never find out when hanging on a design computer disconnected from reality.

    shredder7753 wrote:
    why would we test a theory if we do not actually have a theory to test??

    I have a lot of theroy in test right now. One of my favorite is that you can scale down industrial size floating concrete projects to family seastead size. For example you can scale down the rion-antirion bridge pylon to just 2m size. A 20m diameter seasteading lens is bildable with the building skills we developed already.

    shredder7753 wrote:
    so here is where i stand: our design has to hold at least 50 people and it has to be further than the EEZ.

    …aehm….actually we can NOT solve the project management issues that come up when you float out 50 people for a fun weekend, 10m from shore, on barril floats (ephemerisle)…

    shredder7753 wrote:
    …Wil – when you say “flat float” is this a flat float?

    I would see anything that is basicly flat and relies on form stability to avoid capsizing as a “flat float”, this includes barges, kon-tiki, platforms, catamarans, etc… so it would include your designs (both square and triangular) lens, plate, ring, lagoon designs – for open ocean you need some 20 m as a minimum to give you comfort and safety.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

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