1. Skip to navigation
  2. Skip to content
  3. Skip to sidebar




Simple design principle

Home Forums Archive TSI Engineering Simple design principle

This topic contains 111 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of shredder7753 shredder7753 3 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 112 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #12369
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    Distorted wrote:

    Why do you think green space is that key for living at sea? Wouldn’t that be better served by building a small garden room that would be protected from the weather and salt spray to provide a the green space/ recreation area? the top side is some of the most valuable real estate on a sea-stead, and wouldn’t it be better used for energy generation, cargo loading, or the economic driver for your sea-stead? Garden spaces are also great uses for semi-treated grey-water and perhaps provide some fresh food to break the boring rations….

    i can appreciate that angle. it does make some sense. i think in order to make progress on that u might actually need some hard data – such as real market research from consumers who fit the profile as interested buyers.

    i have to admit, my work really focuses on the physical dimension. i design stuff like its a product i want to sell to someone. for people who actually want to seastead totally on the cheap, and make everything as cheapy cheap cheap as possible your argument has merit. for all i know, most of the people on here might want that. but i still focus on developing marketable “products”, not some gerry-rigged crap shoot.

    i think there could be a market for wealthy people/organizations who want a permanently moored platform. it would be a nice vacation spot for someone who already knows the touristy beaches and wants a private sanctuary.

    [/quote]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Foundation

    The issue with targeting the super rich demographic is that there is little a redecorated oil rig can offer them they can’t get better from a yacht, cruise ship, or banana republic.

    If you have enough money, there are plenty of places on this planet where you can act like Uday and Qusay Hussein with no consequences. Justice is a commodity for sale. Criminality is to lose a popularity contest.

    Aircraft Carrier vs. Submarine

    Submarine will win that fight every time.

    #12371
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    UPDATE: this might help:

    Yes the flat one, that’s cool,

    though I’d recomend having a wind-break,

    such as a mountain ridge going all around it,

    except two places, one the official entrance,

    and one the secret or emergency exit.

    on the mountain ridge can have,

    wind-turbines and solar-panels,

    we can even make modularly,

    by all getting ourselves floating boats,

    and then attaching them together in a calm sea.

    note that large-island structures,

    typically need government clearance,

    unless they are built in international waters.

    Do you have $10,000?

    Could get or make a concrete boat for seasteading.

    One that uses simple design principles.

    I personally have been working on hexagonal-boats,

    or boats made of flat parts, that come together.

    now I’ve settled on water-droplet shapes,

    figure they are as perfect as it gets.

    snowflakes are hexagons.

    now that’s I’m working more with ferrocement,

    I see how the metal frame might be simple,

    though with the rebar, and fencing,

    can make for a rounder shape,

    enhancing hydrodynamics,

    and compressive strength.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12375
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    do u guys understand that no matter what system of governance, u cannot make a new state without having due consideration for the ‘quality of life’?

    #12380
    Avatar of Distorted-Humor
    Distorted-Humor
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    do u guys understand that no matter what system of governance, u cannot make a new state without having due consideration for the ‘quality of life’?

    indeed, quality of life is needed, however it must be done in a way that is affordable.

    If I have 100 million, I am going to buy a yacht and seastead, you will need to make seasteading for upper middle class/petty rich to get a buyer, as the super-wealthy already have options that are better then a barge.

    Lets say your building a barge or a platform, that flat area on the top is the prime real-estate for your sea-stead. Perhaps greenhouses to protect from the weather and give you some fresh food for quality of life can be justified. But to live on the sea-stead you need.

    Some form of energy, be it desiel, wind, solar, or some other exotic form of power.

    Shelter from the weather and storms.

    Some form of Economic production, be it for internal or external use.

    Most likely the top deck will need to be used for loading/unloading, economic production, and generators/solar cells/windmills.

    Now one thing I could see is if you get a critical mass of seasteaders, be it a breakwater or just a cluster, a “Park” stead might be a nice addtion to add value to the community.

    For example, at the south pole, there is no parkland/greenspace, however there is a greenhouse to produce fresh foods to add to the diet that greatly increases the quality of life.

    As for underwater living, in the 1950′s-1970′s there was a attempt to build cheap designs that used fancy air to allow humans to live under pressure. In the end it turned out to be much simpler to design a long lasting structure that uses normal air, and the costs are doable, the hard part is figuring out what you can do to make london/NYC type money 200NM offshore.

    #12381
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Alright guys, as per previous comments I went ahead and put some wind turbines and a greenhouse with a large garden area in this model. I really disagree that we need to use the top for economic production. The interior of the concrete “tray” will be dry. If you need space to do stuff do it in there. It is not possible for us to compete against any terran industry with any means of production that would take place on the top. I suspect most of the economic production will come from owning businesses that generate income onshore – or services provided through the internet (such as 3D design services).

    Rich

    #12383
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    are not @ all “simple” when it comes to seasteading. I am a firm believer in using concrete floating, mobile and modular raft like structures as the “infrastructure” of a seastead. But a rectangular barge like structure you have presented here won’t make it in the open ocean. (don’t get me wrong here-just the reality of the life @ sea).

    It has to be ship-like, with a bow able to cut the waves, a keel with balast, higher freeboard and in general the ability of good seakeeping in most of the sea conditions. Here are some of my designs that I have introduced here in the past.

    Basic “Kite-Float” module.

    Based on the above kite-float design, some seasteads

    Oceanfloat

    Oceanfloat raft up configurations

    Solar sailstead (open lagoon)

    Solar sailstead (closed lagoon)

    Archipelago

    #12384
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    No offense, but we’ve already had some of these discussions, and as others have said – the raised platform designs are just too expensive.

    Ellmer has given us lots of great ideas, and one that I like involves a deep loaded structure in the shape of a giant bowl. We could have an open air park in the middle that would actually be below sea-level, because a wall would be all the way around and well above sea level. The structure would have the benefits of being protected from wave action while also having the benefits of being most land-like. Throw in some wave-powered generators that can double as breakwaters, and you’ve gone a long way towards having an independent seastead.

    #12386
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    without more detail it is really hard to visuallize life on your design. In my illustration it is hard to see, but the concrete outer walls rise about 9 meters off the ocean surface, and it also rises up and down with the passing swells. to my knowledge there are not really any waves 200 miles out. but the swells can be gigantic. i made this model in response to the Nkossa barge comments. there has to be a way, if they already did it back in the ’90s. as for not making it on the high seas – my barge is thick solid reinforced concrete. i think the ocean wont hurt it.

    i like the “archipelago” that oceanopolis put up. but the “sailstead” is too fancy in my opinion. are you working in sketchup? if so, things like wind turbines are already pre-made on the 3d warehouse. it makes things a lot more clear for other people to visualize.

    how do u upload images so big!!?? i’ve been limited to 500×500 size.

    Alan – again, the underwater idea is interesting for a small colony but we have to consider that its not scalable. which may be fine if you dont mind limiting the size of your overall sea state. as far as Patri is concerned, he wanted us to explore the concept of experimental governments. statistically speaking it is very difficult to get any good results with a small sample size. my barge is for maybe 100-200 people, and a vast number of these could be attached to each other for one gigantic open-air living space.

    Rich

    #12387
    Avatar of Distorted-Humor
    Distorted-Humor
    Participant

    Nkossa does show that a raft-barge if large enough will survive on the open seas. I think that the main drawback to the Raft design is that is not very mobile, which does not meet some people’s goals in sea-steading. Of course, In my minds eye if I need to be mobile, I would take a page out of the “Sea-Org”….

    #12388
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Life on my design is the same as life on your design, if we are talking about platform like seasteads. As with life in general, it is what one makes out of it,…I wasn’t criticizing the strength of your design construction but merely giving some input in terms of shape. The rectangular shape when mobile will translate in much higher fuel costs since won’t cut thru water but “push” the water aside. Unless you designed to be stationary.

    Yes, the solar sailstead is fancy and very costly to build, but in the long run will save a lots of money because will be almost 100% energy sufficient. In terms of the image size, from your wiki uploads, go full resolution, copy and paste.

    #12389
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    if u gotta b mobile, i mean, its kinda not seasteading. like – go buy a boat?

    #12390
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    when a Category 3 or 4 hurricane will hit you while ure sitting duck there? Do you think that whatever you will use for anchoring will hold in 140-160 mph sustained winds maybe gusting to180 mph and 40-50 ft seas? Even if your ground tackle will hold, you will be taking a hell of a pounding out there and you might sustain structural damages. If you start taking water or anything goes wrong youre done. Nobody will come there to rescue you. Mobility is paramount for a seastead. The big cruiseships will turn away and run from a category 1,….

    #12391
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    do u guys understand that no matter what system of governance, u cannot make a new state without having due consideration for the ‘quality of life’?

    I’m probably just being contrary but I disagree. Economics dictate people’s decisions on where to live far mor than quality of life. It’s extremely rare for frontiers to offer any competition to the old world in the category of comfort.

    Every frontier I can think of throughout history involved a long harsh road to get there, and nothing waiting for them but natural resources, what they brought with them, and perhaps a new climate.

    I’m still of the opinion that building large floor spaces out on the ocean is equivilent to taking an RV camping. Seasteading needs to make the best of the environment it has, not try and take land with it to sea.

    It won’t be the ability to walk in circles on a micro island that will attract people to seasteading. Most people get sick of living on cruise ships in a matter of weeks. They would get island feaver instantly.

    It will be the facilities available to them in and under the water which they won’t be able to get on shore. In the ocean, you are completely unrestrained by any boundry beyond the leash of your air supply and your ability to avoid nitrogen sickness.

    Unlike land where most people forget how 1 dimensional their freedom truly is. What is the furthest distance you ever travel from a road on property you don’t own? If you dare to leave the beaten path on anything but national forest, you’ll be arrested for trespassing.

    We are hearded like animals down asphalt corridors, from our drywall cages to the places we’re allowed to purchase our identity. From our shopping malls to our workplace, our entire lives are as linear as a video game.

    On the sea, you go from living in 1.5D to living in 3D. Well, 2D if you subscribe to Shredder’s Philosophy. ;)

    Just like cowboys were more comfortable in a saddle than on foot, seasteaders will be more comfortable on dive scooters and scuba fins than on foot.

    #12392
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    aight dude. we can agree to disagree. i’ll just watch from my lounge chair with my sexy azz wife and 6 kids while you do your thing. plz remember i told you so, and don’t come crying sayin “o rich you were soooo right, if i only had a decent plot of land to call home”. at that point i’ll be watching from one of 20 different mini-guns on that “retarded” top deck. standing next to the rest of my arsenal.

    btw – if this underwater bubble is 200 miles offshore how are you gonna get back and forth stateside? ur not gonna use my helicopter. not gonna use my boats. and the lifeboats for my island are gonna have facial recognition software so they can laff at you when you try to steal them. taa taa!

    Rich

    bring on the fun, ladies.

    btw oceanopolis – cruise ships do turn and run from hurricanes. but oil rigs dont (although they do evacuate). this sucker is made of reinforced concrete. the habitation part is built like a normal commercial building that is designed to withstand hurricane force winds. in a strong hurricane i can see the advantage of having it underwater. so if a hurricane lasts 12 hours and you have 3 strong ones a year, thats only 00.41% of the time your in a hurricane. it just needs to be designed to withstand the storms. modern architecture is all over it.

    #12393
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    aight dude. we can agree to disagree. i’ll just watch from my lounge chair with my sexy azz wife and 6 kids while you do your thing. plz remember i told you so, and don’t come crying sayin “o rich you were soooo right, if i only had a decent plot of land to call home”. at that point i’ll be watching from one of 20 different mini-guns on that “retarded” top deck. standing next to the rest of my arsenal.

    btw – if this underwater bubble is 200 miles offshore how are you gonna get back and forth stateside? ur not gonna use my helicopter. not gonna use my boats. and the lifeboats for my island are gonna have facial recognition software so they can laff at you when you try to steal them. taa taa!

    Rich

    bring on the fun, ladies.

    btw oceanopolis – cruise ships do turn and run from hurricanes. but oil rigs dont (although they do evacuate). this sucker is made of reinforced concrete. the habitation part is built like a normal commercial building that is designed to withstand hurricane force winds. in a strong hurricane i can see the advantage of having it underwater. so if a hurricane lasts 12 hours and you have 3 strong ones a year, thats only 00.41% of the time your in a hurricane. it just needs to be designed to withstand the storms. modern architecture is all over it.

    I’ve met quite a few wealthy people in my life, and I can’t remember a single one of them who refused to conform to the capitalization of letters. The rules aren’t difficult. First letter of a sentence, first letter of proper nouns. There’s a first time for everything. Why don’t you explain to me how you became so wealthy?

    I hope you have a better defensive strategy than “mini-guns”. A lone diver could scuttle the entire vessel with a couple pounds of explosive they bought at K-Mart.

    The history of micro-nations suggests your sovereignty may depend on it…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_Island_(Lake_Michigan)#The_Mormon_kingdom_on_Beaver_Island

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_minerva

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealand

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 112 total)

The forum ‘TSI Engineering’ is closed to new topics and replies.



Posted on at

Categories:

Written by

Blog/Newsletter

Donate