Seasteading & UK Laws
July 16, 2010 at 9:11 pm #10818
Waveland – Greenpeace Not very big group right? Please understand I dont mean to argue with you I merely state that you are wrong.
The Waveland situation could be considered the same as the the “Invasion” of South Georgia by Argentina, it was a Scarp merchant on a trade mission who started the flaklands war, but they (UK) perceived the much greater threat by the larger force of Argentina. (I think they were wrong to over react).
Like wise Greenpeace has some serious fanatically motivated man power & maritime assets Globally.
I would not call that small scale friend.
When Germany Asked the UK To control the Sealand problem & get back 2 of their citizens, the UK did nothing they said it was not in their legal powers to board sealand & release thr 2 Germans held their. (for attacking Bates & his Nation).
The U.K qouted an earlier court summons that came to the legal conclusion that they had little legal rights over him & SealandLangford wrote:
I belive any new nation should be very far away from any existing nation, far enough away infact that the EEZ of the new nation does not overlap with any existing counties EEZ.
I totaly agree, However Practical problems crop up the furthr you are from shore.
Depth of sea, supplys, weather, easy transit to other ports for business etc.
However I fail to see a case in history where the land based authorities would contest, a democratic revolution offshore, (maybe the 1st Truly bloodless revolution in history) especially if its business as usual, & no danger is presented to shipping.
Remember one of the problems the Falklands turned into a war was because the Residents of the falklands wanted to be British not Argentinian, however if they wanted to join with argentina, The British would have had to let them, like many British, Dutch, & Portuguese colonys they legally broke off from the old empires in the last 40 years.
I dont Find joining a Seasteading project on rock logical It is logical.
The Logic is the fact a Micronation formed Democratically offshore, posing no threat to the costal state, or international shipping, & having atleast 12-24 months of stable operation beforehand is (based on historical events) unlikely to be challenged.
Couple that with a lesser technically challenging constructon, (dumping rocks) & lower costs, It by far would apeer to be the most Logical course to pursue.
However I realise, many have their own, how should i say, Dreams? & who is to say mine is any different
All I hope is we do somthing Real & on a practical scale, before were all to old!July 18, 2010 at 9:37 am #10830
As shallow as 18 meters in the Dogger Bank? Also, isn’t it in the middle point just outside of UK and European EEZ’s?
You know that even considering it is as shallow as 18 meters, you would need a lot of rock to make an actual island, rather than a rig, or stead. An 18 meter cube of rock would weigh over 11,000 tonnes.July 18, 2010 at 4:20 pm #10834
Build a perimeter wall on the bank and build your island on top, the area enclosed by the wall becomes your secure fish farm. outside, wave power generators produce electricity and nullifies the impact of waves against the wall.July 18, 2010 at 7:01 pm #10835
Grate IDEA steve i liek it i heard of it before but not that way 😉Escape wrote:
As shallow as 18 meters in the Dogger Bank? Also, isn’t it in the middle point just outside of UK and European EEZ’s? You know that even considering it is as shallow as 18 meters, you would need a lot of rock to make an actual island, rather than a rig, or stead. An 18 meter cube of rock would weigh over 11,000 tonnes.
Do you think If i had a mine i would be able to cut and transport blocks that size to a shipyard? are you joking?
Also every Dubai development i have seen done on water , was using boulders & large rocks not blocks, that leves ALOT of air gaps or water gaps. so i doubt it would be 11,000t = 18m3
i’ll maybe come back to this topic on the Engineering forum.
But right now im reading thorugh a 660page Marine construction manual written in PLAIN LANGUAGE! 😀 its great, but it cost alot (OMG $140)-(20% disscount hehe)
(UPDATE reply to Escape Artist)
OK so your saying 18m3 weighs 11,000t What the hell kind of rock is that? are you telling me a 1m3 of this rock weighs over 610tons!! OMG what Is that? i dident think you could get quarry rocks that heavy, what type is it?
Also im not a marine engineer, but i do know man made Islands are your most practical options, one of many.
Another point, like ssteves idea, why would you make a solid island? why not even make a rock breakwater circle & fill it with sand? that would add strength & lower costs.July 19, 2010 at 3:26 pm #10850
How do you insert quotes… this forum does’t follow php…
“OK so your saying 18m3 weighs 11,000t What the hell kind of rock is that? are you telling me a 1m3 of this rock weighs over 610tons!! OMG what Is that? i dident think you could get quarry rocks that heavy, what type is it?”
No, he’s saying that an 18x18x18 cube weighs 11,000, meaning each cubic meter weighs about 1.9 tonnes. I still think stilts are a good idea, though…
If it’s outside the EEZ’s, though, there’s no trouble whatsoever politically. Unless you try pointing out that you have an EEZ as well, which would push their back…
Making a wall and filling it with sand is probably best, though – you can get the sand from the surrounding sea. I’d build it up to about 2 meters below sea level with sand alone, and then ship in some soil and use a soil/sand mix for the rest. Once this is done, build up a sand slope around it to give it shores and seaweed farming fields.
Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.July 19, 2010 at 3:29 pm #10851
Hmmm…. dogger bank appears to be partly inside, and partly outside, of the UK EEZ.
Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.July 19, 2010 at 5:05 pm #10856
I thought their was somthiing not right about that, hehe thats what skimming & ranting gets me my baaaaahd.
thanks farmer would have totaly missed that, then again 11,000t aint so bad even if you did use a loads it would be coming out of your on Quarry.
thanks man, uhm your looking for this (replace the p with q)
[puote=Terraformer] [/puote]Terraformer wrote:
I like cheeseJuly 19, 2010 at 5:55 pm #10857
I tried it before, but it didn’t work…
Maybe we need a new thread for discussing places such as Dogger bank?
Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.July 19, 2010 at 10:36 pm #10862
hehe the forum beast dont like you ohw (dont worry it kills my posts 2-3 times i try to post lol)
Thats a good idea.
Do you think we should make threads about specific sites? when we get round to em?
You know of any actual real projects with people on this site trying to go some place & try building an island? that would be a fun winter thing to do. (hard work but fun)
p.s anything thing with palm trees would be fine with me, i’ll pay my own way lol.July 25, 2010 at 12:51 am #10936
What I want to know is how much rocks cost?
Okay, rocks are free in the most basic sense, but to get big quarry rocks dug out and then transported in ships to Dogger Bank has to cost a lot.
Obviously, there isn’t going to literally be an 18 meter cube of rock involved, but it shows that you are going to need to carry literally tens of thousands of rocks there to build anything even halfway sizable that is above sea level.
Hypothetically (but I’m guessing it’s way conservative), if each 1 ton rock costs £1000 to move from a quarry to a ship to Dogger Bank, then with 22,000+ rocks, it will cost well over £22 million, and that’s ignoring the fact that you aren’t just dumping them there, you are going to need to build an island by arranging it all properly.
It was mentioned that the sand on the sea floor could be used, and that would reduce the amount of rocks needed, as well as being off-set by the air spaces in between each rock, but even then, given that it would be more a mountain of rocks than a cube, the requirement is raised back up due to the shape. It’s going to require huge amounts of rock and work whichever way you look at it, and therefore huge amounts of money are needed. No helpful eccentric millionaires about to help finance this either. Arg.
Either that, or ten people chip in with £10,000+ each every ten years… and then we just have to wait 22 Centuries to afford it… Hmmm… by which time the money is worthless, and there is one authoritarian world government in place that beat us to it, and owns all the land and seas of the Earth.July 25, 2010 at 1:29 pm #10939
Not really. If you can get sand off the sea floor, and construct a sort of 18m tall shaft on the sea floor, you can pile in sand, and then soil, until you have an island. If you can then pile sand around it, you can get a slope.
Even if you want to import everthing to build the island, there are other ways beside straight rock. Foamed rock, for example, that would fill with water to provide most of it’s compressive strength. In fact, you could potentially reuse plastic in the production of your island – fill them with sand and water, glue them together, and sink the mass. If you use them to create the shaft which I mentioned previosuly, it could be quite cheap.
Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.
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