Seasteading start up budget.
August 29, 2010 at 8:44 am #11231
There are no sunsets nor sunrises,…no dolphins swimming on your bow,.. no blue moon or silver stars,…no gentle night breeze in your hair,….no tropical sun when laying in the cockpit on a long passage,…no flying fish landing on deck when you’re just out of bait,…no catching blue fin just in time for lunch,…no salty, seaweed ocean smelll,…no good night sleep while rooling @ anchor,….no spray over the coaming,…no adrenaline rush while surfing down a long, big swell,…no glowing plankton in your wake,…no fun like drinking rum while waiting for the tide when stuck aground,…nope,…not to much fun 300 ft down. And what is to be achieved while living down bellow? Plus, all the extra money needed to maintain that artificial environment,…where is it gonna come from?
It’s a disaster response, not a lifestyle. You live on the surface. Submersion is a coping strategy for stormy weather.
You can take your house underwater too. You just have to be able to form a bubble by making it’s walls/windows/doors airtight or by making the interior waterproof.August 29, 2010 at 2:31 pm #11232
Ocean, to get a clearer view how living in a submerged structure will be you might want to have a look at the following submerged (stationary) structures that are already in use as we speak.
The idea that you live there desconnected from ocean and nature in a “military sub environment” is not how things really will work. Those statinary submerged structures have still deck spaces, scuba free access, a platform to watch the stars and enjoy the sea breeze – in fact they have a close design similarity to the TSI spar design – just reducing the platform maximizing the underwater part.
What concerns full scale yacht submarines – it is still a YACHT that means you can fish Marilin – you have a normal dinghi in a fairing behind the sail (tower) so you can still join your yachtie friends at the tropical beach adventures (who are mostly performed in dinghi – not from deck of the yacht) the glowing plankton will be a lot more impressive when watched trough your viewports, so will be dolphins.
You can stay at the surface and handle it like any other yacht -
Other than your yachtie friends who get a real headache when they get news during the beach barbecue that this tropical storm is comming in – you just open another beer, relax row back to your boat, close the hatch an lay it some 10m below the waves on the sandy bottom of that topical bay to check the damages made by the storm to the island paradise tomorrow.
Finally this tropical caribbean island paradise is uninhabitated because it is barren by tropical cyclones every few months – the only way to enjoy it really is to you bring your shelter with you.
Inside and light conditions of this submarine yacht hull see: ( http://www.youtube.com/watch)
Deckspace – see man walking on top: ( http://www.youtube.com/watch ) the deckspace is compareable to a normal yacht – it will get overwashed earlier than in a surface yacht – but who enjoys deckspace in such conditions anyhow.
Outlook from one of the uplooking viewports wider downlooking view angle than expected: ( http://www.youtube.com/watch )
European Submarine Structures ABAugust 30, 2010 at 5:58 am #11235
storms or huricanes can be predicted and avoided way before they reach a certain location. The chances to die while driving are much higher than dying in a storm @ sea nowadays. I am not against subseasteading, just not my cup of tea. I am into artificial floating islands.August 31, 2010 at 6:23 pm #11243
So, my original thought was a monolithic dome structure on the sea-floor, with a ‘lifeline’ to the surface (multiple snorkles). Then TSI info showed me that I’d still be in the EEZ and thus not free, so my plans changed to incorporate mobility in a free-floating sub. Found this great website where a European fellow was building Concrete Subs (and rather inexpensive too!)… and now Wil is on the TSI boards too.
I still think Belize might act as a shore-location we use often and might eventually turn into SO:BIZ. The first step seems to be the substead. SO:BIZ was great for making a floating seastead with a group. When it comes to a sub I’d rather let a pro handle things and over time living the sub-life become a pro myself so I can replicate the substead for my progeny (another reason to have a shore location).
I see this thread going in the direction of concrete sub-steading. I think Wil has given a fairly economical price and his methods seem the most logical at this point to pursue. So Wil, how about an official ‘substead’ design and a price tag? If I designed it for my family it would be a lot bigger than just a ‘standard’ inexpensive SFS (unfortunately, my plans are more along the yacht size as I plan on maintaining a larger family than most do in developed nations).
I would imagine that a basic SFS would need living space for 2 adults and 3 children, kitchen and bathing facilities, and a space for either an office or a workshop (initially work will be done on the substead as seasteaders will be small communities). It would need to be mobile and have an extremely safe oxygen system. External hooks/rings would allow for add-ons (like aquaculture spheres, etc) that could be customized based on the needs of the substeader family in question.
What do you say Wil?
-JasonSeptember 1, 2010 at 6:12 pm #11250
pastor, the design is given by the use – once you make it submerged the “wave movement” stops to be a consideration – for mobility make it streamlined. For pressure resistance make it round – if you think it trough – you end automatically with a blimp shape.
After doing several pilot projects i can achieve a general building cost of 331 Euro/ton of structure. This means 331 Euro/cubic meter of living space. To compare it with a apartment (2,5m room height) one squaremeter floor space needs 2,5 cubic meter living space.
110 cubic meter living space are considered sufficient space for a habitrat with a crew of 4 (Ben Franklin). You will not need a “oxigen sistem” except you plan to cut surface contact completly and go for weeks of complete submarine insulation – why would you want to do that ? – in snorkel mode oxigen comes constantly over the ventilation sistem (very much like in a land based highrise building where you can not open the windows or in a underground shopping mall).
To avoid claustrophobic ambient you might choose a structure like that for the upper part of the hull.
or you might choose translucient concrete with embedded glass fibers.
But having even only 8 uplooking viewports give already a better lighted interior than a average yacht has to offer.
Check interior of a submarine yacht 200 cubic meter living space:
European Submarine Structures ABSeptember 2, 2010 at 2:31 pm #11261
By ‘oxygen system’ I was refer to something simple like a snorkle. Personally, I want a sub that can go down for long periods of time. For the SFS sub design, I’m looking at some minimalism. It needs to be simple, safe, and spacious enough to accomodate a lifestyle akin to the western world’s standards (as that’s who TSI is involving).
My point is, why not put out a ‘generic’ design with a price tag. People can complain about how it needs more or less and they can get a response of “Well, you get what you pay for… adding __________ will add $xxxx to the price tag and not everyone wants that on their SFS.” In this way you’ll be offering a real chance at safely seasteading in any aquatic environment with a price tag.
I think this will infuse some much needed reality into the future conversations on this thread and hopefully through the entire site. Best case scenario, TSI catches the SFS fever and orders a handful of these inexpensive sub-steads to act as promotional tools and proof of concept examples.
-JasonSeptember 4, 2010 at 5:14 pm #11276
European Submarine Structures AB , section colombia crew – floating out a base module of some 300 kg weight and 1 metric ton displacement. Those elements have a freebord of 80cm can be assembled to floating structures of any size and make.
We can produce them in mass production don’t need big shipyard installations to make them, nor cranes to handle them, (three man can do it) no upfront money needed to start floating out something – the platform size is only limited by the owners wallet and imagination.
Let me hear your thoughts…
European Submarine Structures ABOctober 24, 2011 at 5:19 pm #15948
Where,October 25, 2011 at 3:29 am #15950
storms or huricanes can be predicted and avoided way before they reach a certain location. The chances to die while driving are much higher than dying in a storm @ sea nowadays. I am not against subseasteading, just not my cup of tea. I am into artificial floating islands.
this is my favorite of the mmk variety
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”October 25, 2011 at 7:12 am #15953
In fact, that one was redesigned a bit, got solar panels and wind generators and was christened “OCEANSTEAD”.
Just in case our “start up budget” will grow to $ tenth of millions:)
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