1. Skip to navigation
  2. Skip to content
  3. Skip to sidebar




Seasteading start up budget.

Home Forums Community General Chat Seasteading start up budget.

This topic contains 99 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS OCEANOPOLIS 2 years, 12 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 100 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #11098
    Profile photo of mariusz
    mariusz
    Participant

    Example here is a existing example how it can start. – the floating offices in cardiff marina.

    I’ve been reading this forum for the past few days.. It seems that there is hundred of ways to start with seasteading. At least it’s possible to do it at the very basic level – research and development using one small seastead made out of… anything that floats and has all the necessities of life on the sea. My question is – why so little is being done? Or if there is something going on, why the Institute not communicate with the community more efficiently?

    All that talk is just pointless, if there are no clear goals defined, and the constantly growing community is not utilized properly, but left to linger.

    #11099
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    mariusz wrote:

    Example here is a existing example how it can start. – the floating offices in cardiff marina.

    I’ve been reading this forum for the past few days.. It seems that there is hundred of ways to start with seasteading. At least it’s possible to do it at the very basic level – research and development using one small seastead made out of… anything that floats and has all the necessities of life on the sea. My question is – why so little is being done? Or if there is something going on, why the Institute not communicate with the community more efficiently?

    All that talk is just pointless, if there are no clear goals defined, and the constantly growing community is not utilized properly, but left to linger.

    [/quote]

    Well Patri has been busy with floating-festival@googlegroups.com

    I have sent him a message giving a summary,

    of what’s been going on the forums.

    That was yesterday,

    hopefully he’ll show up,

    and make some responses.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #11104
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    we are to go ahead with the marina concept and anyway have to build the floating docks to be rafted up, then for few dollars extra, might as well build housing on this floats….and turn it into the “oceangoinghouseboat”. When rafted up, they can be rented as “dockage” and rentals, or overnight stay, as a “boat & breakfast”. Why limit ourselvs @ making money only from the dockage?

    #11105
    Profile photo of mariusz
    mariusz
    Participant

    elspru wrote:

    well my understanding of the seasteading.org website and their plans.

    http://seasteading.org/mission/additionalreading/timeline

    Is that they do intend to make some floating structures,

    they wanted to have a bay version, and then an ocean version.

    The “Institute” is already behind the schedule, and to make things worse, it was decided that SI will skip the most important, basic stage and move onto this huge unrealistic Poseidon Project.

    Also note that “the averge joe” doesn’t expect to pay off a mortgage,

    It seems that people here are forgetting that “the average joe” has intrest in seasteading.

    Then people could build these boats, and join us out on the water.

    Seasteading will not move forward without the necessary infrastructure.

    Let’s just consider a sample case:

    A family of four decides to move out to the sea. They have money to buy already built seastead, of a decent quality with all the necessities. They also have stable, recurring income in “the real world”. They board their new home and
    then… what?? Where do they sail? What will they eat? Do they have skill necessary to survive? There is many more questions that they will ask. Unless we can answer those questions, seasteading will be something that either eccentric millionaires, or total nuts can even entertain as a possibility.

    Mariusz

    #11106
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    The Poseidon Project is not so unrealistic (as an idea). Definately far better than The Clubstead. What’s unrealistic about the Poseidon Project is the price tag. I dont know how they come up with $20 mil, for 50 people. That’s $400,000.00 a pop….For that money, each of the 50 people can own a mansion,…

    They’d be better off buying 50 used houseboats @ around $10,000.00 a piece and permanently raft ‘em up. That’s only half a mil.

    A seastead for 50 people can be build for much, much less.

    #11107
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    mariusz wrote:

    elspru wrote:

    well my understanding of the seasteading.org website and their plans.

    http://seasteading.org/mission/additionalreading/timeline

    Is that they do intend to make some floating structures,

    they wanted to have a bay version, and then an ocean version.

    The “Institute” is already behind the schedule, and to make things worse, it was decided that SI will skip the most important, basic stage and move onto this huge unrealistic Poseidon Project.

    Also note that “the averge joe” doesn’t expect to pay off a mortgage,

    It seems that people here are forgetting that “the average joe” has intrest in seasteading.

    Then people could build these boats, and join us out on the water.

    Seasteading will not move forward without the necessary infrastructure.

    Let’s just consider a sample case:

    A family of four decides to move out to the sea. They have money to buy already built seastead, of a decent quality with all the necessities. They also have stable, recurring income in “the real world”. They board their new home and
    then… what?? Where do they sail? What will they eat? Do they have skill necessary to survive? There is many more questions that they will ask. Unless we can answer those questions, seasteading will be something that either eccentric millionaires, or total nuts can even entertain as a possibility.

    Mariusz

    [/quote]

    I don’t think either one represents the cart or the horse. One horse towns start with a man, a horse, a house, and a business near a route of travel. Then, they grow organically. Employees of the small business move closer to live next to work. Grocery/Convienence stores follow capitalizing on the high travel expenses/monopoly. They can sell what costs $1 dollar 2 hours away for $3 because it’s not worth the hassle to drive 2 hours to save $2.

    You either use cheap real estate to make a product and then ship it to a population dense area for distribution, or you set up shop along the travel route of someone who does and sell a service.

    We’re all driven in to the ocean by the cost of living, so if we can find a niche around expensive real estate, that creates market demand for our service: house boat construction, and docking services.

    A floating sea port/boat yard with a ferry, a dry dock, a sea plane, a break water, an air compresser, and some welding equipment.

    I’d live there. Between the break water, the dive shack, the boat yard, and the dry dock: we’ve got the support services we need.

    Thinking back to tiles:

    http://www.fractiles.com/fridge.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_polygon

    These can build these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solid

    as well as these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_polyhedron

    A pentagon can be modified to be more fluid dynamic:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagonal_trapezohedron

    I haven’t thought of a good ancoring system, but perhaps just 8 holes 1 meter apart along 10 meter lengths of verious polygons. I’m going to see if I can scrounge up some steal tubing. If we went K’NEX on this bitch:

    http://www.knex.com/

    and sold the brackets to make the above shapes from a standard size of steel tube: those shapes could then be lashed together with relative ease.

    Attatching buoyancy is trivial, and 4″ Schedule 40 PVC can survive 80 ft of depth.(depending on the length/diameter ratio)

    Milk crates are a great building material for buoyancy, and even walkways. If you can find a cheap source: otherwise: pallets with sheet metal over them work well.

    #11109

    whenever we talk about a settlement (no matter if it is land or ocean based) the center question is not the “design, shape, and size of the houses” nor the “engineering of the houses” – the center question is “the demand”.

    You can put houses of any design out in the desert – nobody will buy them – no jobs, no access, no future for your project. If you have any house near a city center it will sell.

    So instead of looking for starting seasteading outside EEZ for political reasons we should look to start it as near as possible to economic centers, touristic centers, city centers because this is where the demand for living space is best and the only living space left is out on the water. On the other hand city waterfronts are frequently the “most overregulated spaces on earth”. So it might be wise to go “city near” – but “already deregulated” – like in any real estate project the perfect spot with high demand and little authority friction is the key development question.

    There are already cities that have “floating suburbs” in asia for thousands of years – we should simply create a better organized version of this…

    Boat City of Aberdeen Harbor, Hong Kong

    #11110
    Profile photo of Melllvar
    Melllvar
    Participant

    My hunch would be that TSI has little interest in this forum at this point (it is kind of them to keep operating it for our discussions though, so thanks guys!). Honestly I can completely understand why, at least from their point of view. At the risk of being offensive, most of us could easily be accused of armchair enthusiasm for this project. They stand a much better chance of making seasteading happen in some form with funding from billionaires than they do by waiting for one of us to come up with a genius idea or prove we were right all along. How much ROI has anyone here really given the seasteading project, myself included? And when people do, they do seem to take an interest… I believe Patri visited the Hadean group in Singapore, and he did seem interested in SOBIZ before that went kaput.

    I didn’t think their plans were for a $20 mil structure for 50 people, but to sell space to businesses and such. Read that Google now has plans for a ocean-based server center (reminder: TSI and Google share major investors)? The new business contest? I don’t see how anyone could even criticize the strategy, particularly as far as nation founding goes. Who are currently existing nations more likely to listen to and not fuck with: you and me floating in a houseboat community or a mob of large ships owned by billionaires that house important business interests?

    On the other hand, I agree with some of the rest of you that it isn’t my preferred vision. Beyond that, the honest impression I got at the conference was that economic libertarians are the preferred members of this project. Reading the general punditry on A Thousand Nations, and noticing that speakers specifically address themselves to an audience of like-minded libertarians, etc. is where I generally developed this notion. I do remember Patri making the comment in the closing about worrying a bunch of weirdos would show up (of which I probably qualified in his view, but whatever). If this is wrong or offensive to TSI, I don’t intend it to be, just calling it how I see it.

    In any case, my point is that I don’t think TSI has any plans to implement SFSing for all of us, so we’re probably better off making it happen ourselves as a parallel project. They might be willing to lend support if we were actually doing something.

    ———————————————

    Which brings me to part 2, a possible business model would be to buy concrete structures off Ellmer’s group (if possible, or use someone else), add the living necessities (in the case of a raft, potentially building a small house on it), and then aim to sell to a buyer. This could make a relatively safe investment if the intermediate buyers (for example, me) were to plan to live in the structure until it sold, and also use it as a demo model to showcase the structure. I’ve seen a green-architecture company that already does this (the company owner lives in the house and showcases it to people interested in having one built themselves). It solves the primary problem with this kind of arrangement, in that no one wants to get stuck with a concrete raft or shell that they can’t sell and have no use for.

    @ellmer: I’m clearly interested in such an arrangement, but would be financially foolish to attempt it right now. This is my way of saying it would probably be about six months (give or take) before I could seriously consider writing a big check for this. This mainly applies to shell structures and such, since a rectangular raft is much simpler, and honestly if those are to be used I don’t see the point in not building them ourselves… it’s probably cheaper.

    ———————————————-

    Regarding all the comments about connecting things, after Eelco’s comments I don’t see how that will work in the open ocean, unless they are effectively hooked into a single structure (Ocean’s design for example). Specifically:

    “Connecting seasteads in such a manner is more difficult than I supposed, because the horizontal forces involved are much larger than I anticipated on an intuitive basis. To get a bit technical: the horizontal forces on a submerged body can be estimated by Morrison’s equation.” …. “Under worst case conditions , these horizontal acceleration forces are of the same order of magnitude as the weight of the entire structure itself. the components required to withstand such thousands of tons forces get a little bit out of hand; perhaps it is not impossible, but taking this effect into account, it simply no longer feels like a conceptually elegant solution.”

    Without connections, I don’t see how you can have a lot of these close together. If moored they will still require a radius all to themselves so as not to interfere with each other’s lines. Propulsion could be a solution, in that in non-optimal wave conditions you could disconnect and get away from each other, but that more or less requires using a boat, and not a concrete shell structure.

    #11111
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    the subject here. Money, how much and where to get it. The rest is covered. It can be any shape that floats and can be rafted up as a marina, “houseboat village”, fish farm, etc. We know that and we know how to build it. Making a living on it, is a done deal too. We’ll do ALL the marine related businesses. All we need is cash!

    We can dance as long as we want on the seasteading tune, but that wont build it!

    To me, the only way out is to form a partnership based company where each partner is buying in the seastead and the business to follow after construction. They can each be working partners or not. Their own choice. The working ones will get a bigger chunck of the net profit. They can choose to liveaboard or not, or rent their share.

    If anyone has a better idea, lets hear it.

    #11113
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You are probably right. But there are many ways of seasteading, I guess. If TSI will build their seastead as a tax haven, billionair’s hang out private island, thats their vision. If we build ours, the way we wanted, it will be our vision. I hope we’ll stay friends and visit sometime. That’s way I started this thread. Because if the ultimate goal is ocean colonization I belive it should be build by the people and for the people. If some of you share the same ideals, lets talk. If not, lets not waste our time.

    Regarding the connection now. The key word here is “under worst case conditions”. If the raft up of these modules is temporary the connection WILL hold for average seastates. If the conditions are getting bad, than the modules will disconnect and ride the storm by themselvas. If the raft up is permanent, then we dont have a “connection” problem.

    PS. I closelly research the ROI for the Man Made Key project. Whithout getting into much detail, the numbers are very incouraging. But maybe the best measure of profitability is the degree of self sufficiency.

    #11114
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Near by Key West would be a perfect location for such project. The demand for housing is huge due to limited availability. There is also high demand for dockage. (the going rate for dockage right now is $35/ foot in Old Town- if you can find a slip). Built as a marina-real estate floating complex will do very good. That’s where I wanted to locate the Man Made Key. Maybe we should exchange notes on this one.

    #11115
    Profile photo of mariusz
    mariusz
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    You are probably right. But there are many ways of seasteading, I guess. If TSI will build their seastead as a tax haven, billionair’s hang out private island, thats their vision. If we build ours, the way we wanted, it will be our vision. I hope we’ll stay friends and visit sometime. That’s way I started this thread. Because if the ultimate goal is ocean colonization I belive it should be build by the people and for the people.

    Well yes, but since it’s a non-profit organization, their vision is their members vision, and each member at least in teory should have saying in what’s going on..

    BTW. does anyone know if TSI’s Articles of Organization are available anywhere online?

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:
    If some of you share the same ideals, lets talk. If not, lets not waste our time.

    Personally, i have slightly different idea how to get us closer to our goal, but I think at least some of you may like it.. I just need to gather my thoughts and will post it probably tonight.

    Mariusz

    #11117
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    I’ve been actively lurking for a while. This little conversation pulled a response out of me.

    Melllvar wrote:

    My hunch would be that TSI has little interest in this forum at this point (it is kind of them to keep operating it for our discussions though, so thanks guys!). Honestly I can completely understand why, at least from their point of view. At the risk of being offensive, most of us could easily be accused of armchair enthusiasm for this project. They stand a much better chance of making seasteading happen in some form with funding from billionaires than they do by waiting for one of us to come up with a genius idea or prove we were right all along. How much ROI has anyone here really given the seasteading project, myself included? And when people do, they do seem to take an interest… I believe Patri visited the Hadean group in Singapore, and he did seem interested in SOBIZ before that went kaput.

    I didn’t think their plans were for a $20 mil structure for 50 people, but to sell space to businesses and such. Read that Google now has plans for a ocean-based server center (reminder: TSI and Google share major investors)? The new business contest? I don’t see how anyone could even criticize the strategy, particularly as far as nation founding goes. Who are currently existing nations more likely to listen to and not fuck with: you and me floating in a houseboat community or a mob of large ships owned by billionaires that house important business interests?

    On the other hand, I agree with some of the rest of you that it isn’t my preferred vision. Beyond that, the honest impression I got at the conference was that economic libertarians are the preferred members of this project. Reading the general punditry on A Thousand Nations, and noticing that speakers specifically address themselves to an audience of like-minded libertarians, etc. is where I generally developed this notion. I do remember Patri making the comment in the closing about worrying a bunch of weirdos would show up (of which I probably qualified in his view, but whatever). If this is wrong or offensive to TSI, I don’t intend it to be, just calling it how I see it.

    In any case, my point is that I don’t think TSI has any plans to implement SFSing for all of us, so we’re probably better off making it happen ourselves as a parallel project. They might be willing to lend support if we were actually doing something.

    I know it was a 3 part post, I’m only commenting on the 1st part however. I completely agree… with a single exception: SOBIZ.

    To have a meaningful conversation regarding this topic we need to visit the roots of TSI, namely the difference in opinion between Wayne and Patri on how to achieve seasteading. Everyone is in the same boat with the general premise of seasteading. That right there is a miracle. How we go about executing this idea is the disconnect. That disconnect initially happened between two men, Patri and Wayne. Patri is a fan of the larger initiatives in an effort to provide an immediate solution that remains within the ‘norm’ of developed countries lifestyle. Wayne believed that you need a grass roots effort, namely the SFS (Single Family Seasteads) approach.

    That disconnect resulted in the two men breaking ties on the Seasteading project. Wayne seems to remain interested and lurks (as do many of us) so I don’t feel anyone should jump to the conclusion that the break was antagonistic on either side. TSI is the spawn of the Seasteading thoughts of Wayne and Patri married with Patri’s style of executing that dream. There should be some more clarity from TSI that this effort is a large scale focus, TSI is not about smaller efforts.

    Which leads me to my point: SOBIZ. (If you’ve never head of it before, check the wiki or search the forums.) SO:BIZ was an idea generated by a few of us who mistakenly thought this forum was a place to come to help come up with answers for the ‘how do we seastead?” question. This idea was first put forth as a ‘base-stead’ by Bencoder. This idea jived with me and I looked into Patri’s life for some direction. “A leader leads by example whether he knows it or not.” That showed me the benefits of Intentional Communities. So I found a beautiful english speaking country in Central America that used US Dollars as currency, plenty of access to water, and a history of giving unique social groups limited independence: Belize. Octavian (Oceanopolis) added some great thoughts on business structure and SOBIZ was born.

    Since there seemed to be a good following on our thread, I felt like I was taking the conversation away from the general TSI mission. I attempted to hand off SOBIZ to Patri if he felt that this was indeed a serious method of accomplishing the dream. It’s not. TSI has a staff and those staff have families. Uprooting and going to Belize is not a part of the plan. TSI is working on a baystead and that is the only ‘first step’ to seasteading that they will engage in. If I had known that at the beginning, I would never have put forth the idea of SOBIZ. Additionally, Thorizon brought up religious questions that challenged me personally and I was unable to reconcile leadership of a libertarian group with my personal beliefs and needed time to work through it.

    My personal search for seasteading continued. My original interest in Monolithic (concrete dome structures) lead me to Wil and his concrete subs. My thoughts have always directed me toward fully submersible seasteads for safety concerns and Wil’s price for throwing a hull together is great and within the range of affordability. SFS have always been the solution for me. SOBIZ was just going to act as a stepping stone for accomplishing this with a group of like minded individuals.

    If anyone has misconstued this as an attack on TSI you couldn’t be more wrong. TSI will very likely accomplish great things in the path toward Seasteading. They may also launch a successful baystead. The staff at TSI are an impressive group, as long as they remain motivated to seastead, they’ll get there. I just happen to believe that a group of crazy individuals working on a SFS solution will put out solutions sooner if properly organized and will most likely offer a variety of solutions to match the variety of incomes around the world.

    While most of us here focus on middle class solutions (myself included… though I guess my plans border on upper class), I think Wil was on to something when he forwarded the thoughts of incorporating low class and developing country solutions as well. So I’ve said all of this to say: I agree with Melllvar’s conclusions. I’d love to tap Wayne and get some detailed thoughts from him. I will only follow someone who has proven themselves in executing successful projects. To that end I nominate Wil. No one here has done more specifically related to seasteading and the SFS approach.

    Lead on. More will follow than you expect. Anything you don’t want to do can easily be delegated to a skilled volunteer.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #11119
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    I’ve been actively lurking for a while. This little conversation pulled a response out of me.

    Melllvar wrote:

    My hunch would be that TSI has little interest in this forum at this point (it is kind of them to keep operating it for our discussions though, so thanks guys!). Honestly I can completely understand why, at least from their point of view. At the risk of being offensive, most of us could easily be accused of armchair enthusiasm for this project. They stand a much better chance of making seasteading happen in some form with funding from billionaires than they do by waiting for one of us to come up with a genius idea or prove we were right all along. How much ROI has anyone here really given the seasteading project, myself included? And when people do, they do seem to take an interest… I believe Patri visited the Hadean group in Singapore, and he did seem interested in SOBIZ before that went kaput.

    I didn’t think their plans were for a $20 mil structure for 50 people, but to sell space to businesses and such. Read that Google now has plans for a ocean-based server center (reminder: TSI and Google share major investors)? The new business contest? I don’t see how anyone could even criticize the strategy, particularly as far as nation founding goes. Who are currently existing nations more likely to listen to and not fuck with: you and me floating in a houseboat community or a mob of large ships owned by billionaires that house important business interests?

    On the other hand, I agree with some of the rest of you that it isn’t my preferred vision. Beyond that, the honest impression I got at the conference was that economic libertarians are the preferred members of this project. Reading the general punditry on A Thousand Nations, and noticing that speakers specifically address themselves to an audience of like-minded libertarians, etc. is where I generally developed this notion. I do remember Patri making the comment in the closing about worrying a bunch of weirdos would show up (of which I probably qualified in his view, but whatever). If this is wrong or offensive to TSI, I don’t intend it to be, just calling it how I see it.

    In any case, my point is that I don’t think TSI has any plans to implement SFSing for all of us, so we’re probably better off making it happen ourselves as a parallel project. They might be willing to lend support if we were actually doing something.

    I know it was a 3 part post, I’m only commenting on the 1st part however. I completely agree… with a single exception: SOBIZ.

    To have a meaningful conversation regarding this topic we need to visit the roots of TSI, namely the difference in opinion between Wayne and Patri on how to achieve seasteading. Everyone is in the same boat with the general premise of seasteading. That right there is a miracle. How we go about executing this idea is the disconnect. That disconnect initially happened between two men, Patri and Wayne. Patri is a fan of the larger initiatives in an effort to provide an immediate solution that remains within the ‘norm’ of developed countries lifestyle. Wayne believed that you need a grass roots effort, namely the SFS (Single Family Seasteads) approach.

    That disconnect resulted in the two men breaking ties on the Seasteading project. Wayne seems to remain interested and lurks (as do many of us) so I don’t feel anyone should jump to the conclusion that the break was antagonistic on either side. TSI is the spawn of the Seasteading thoughts of Wayne and Patri married with Patri’s style of executing that dream. There should be some more clarity from TSI that this effort is a large scale focus, TSI is not about smaller efforts.

    Which leads me to my point: SOBIZ. (If you’ve never head of it before, check the wiki or search the forums.) SO:BIZ was an idea generated by a few of us who mistakenly thought this forum was a place to come to help come up with answers for the ‘how do we seastead?” question. This idea was first put forth as a ‘base-stead’ by Bencoder. This idea jived with me and I looked into Patri’s life for some direction. “A leader leads by example whether he knows it or not.” That showed me the benefits of Intentional Communities. So I found a beautiful english speaking country in Central America that used US Dollars as currency, plenty of access to water, and a history of giving unique social groups limited independence: Belize. Octavian (Oceanopolis) added some great thoughts on business structure and SOBIZ was born.

    Since there seemed to be a good following on our thread, I felt like I was taking the conversation away from the general TSI mission. I attempted to hand off SOBIZ to Patri if he felt that this was indeed a serious method of accomplishing the dream. It’s not. TSI has a staff and those staff have families. Uprooting and going to Belize is not a part of the plan. TSI is working on a baystead and that is the only ‘first step’ to seasteading that they will engage in. If I had known that at the beginning, I would never have put forth the idea of SOBIZ. Additionally, Thorizon brought up religious questions that challenged me personally and I was unable to reconcile leadership of a libertarian group with my personal beliefs and needed time to work through it.

    My personal search for seasteading continued. My original interest in Monolithic (concrete dome structures) lead me to Wil and his concrete subs. My thoughts have always directed me toward fully submersible seasteads for safety concerns and Wil’s price for throwing a hull together is great and within the range of affordability. SFS have always been the solution for me. SOBIZ was just going to act as a stepping stone for accomplishing this with a group of like minded individuals.

    If anyone has misconstued this as an attack on TSI you couldn’t be more wrong. TSI will very likely accomplish great things in the path toward Seasteading. They may also launch a successful baystead. The staff at TSI are an impressive group, as long as they remain motivated to seastead, they’ll get there. I just happen to believe that a group of crazy individuals working on a SFS solution will put out solutions sooner if properly organized and will most likely offer a variety of solutions to match the variety of incomes around the world.

    While most of us here focus on middle class solutions (myself included… though I guess my plans border on upper class), I think Wil was on to something when he forwarded the thoughts of incorporating low class and developing country solutions as well. So I’ve said all of this to say: I agree with Melllvar’s conclusions. I’d love to tap Wayne and get some detailed thoughts from him. I will only follow someone who has proven themselves in executing successful projects. To that end I nominate Wil. No one here has done more specifically related to seasteading and the SFS approach.

    Lead on. More will follow than you expect. Anything you don’t want to do can easily be delegated to a skilled volunteer.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    [/quote]

    I was discussing seasteading recently with someone who travels a great deal and Belize was his suggestion as well. I have never been there, but I would take the word of either of you that it’s an ideal place for such a project. AFAIC: Belize it is.

    Thank you for your post as it helps put everything in context. It mirrors the progression of my thoughts on the subject of seasteading.

    #11120
    Profile photo of Melllvar
    Melllvar
    Participant

    Well that certainly provides some clarity Jason, so thanks for the post. I am curious why they hired Eelco if the large-scale version was the primary goal all along, but that’s their business. On a personal note, it was actually your SOBIZ thing that caused me to sign up (I’d been lurking before that). Didn’t want to miss the action and it seemed like it was all happening at once.

    But back to our regularly scheduled thread topic…

    I feel like we’re all going in circles with this seasteading start up stuff. For a small-scale start up we don’t even need more money, as Ocean said in the beginning we all have some kind of money. What actually worries me is that we all have different ideas for designs, businesses, etc., and worse than that we have some *very* different ideas about things like politics, religion, society, how we want to live, where we want to live, etc. I’d seriously say that if this is to be anything other than a joke that anyone wanting to be involved should get ready to make some sacrifices and yield to other people’s ideas sometimes; we just can’t all have our cakes and eat them too. Several startup ideas so far seem to have fallen apart before they even got started (not that I specifically know why, and quite frankly it isn’t my business), and I’m not confident the next one will necessarily be different. This is more just a plea for reasonableness between people during moments of disagreement. Once seasteading is happening we can all go do whatever want, but run any kind of startup requires commitment and cooperation.

    That being said, I personally think a bunch of us should get our cash together, relocate to a similar location, and get this shit started. There are clearly a lot of details to work out (all of them, mostly), but there have to be multiple people for there to be any kind of “seasteading partnership.” Rather than just ask here who might be interested, I made a google group titled “Seasteading Start-up Company Discussion.” Not that these forums aren’t a good place for discussion, but this would allow us to keep track of who is seriously interested, willing and able, as well as providing a less-public place to discuss stuff like financing, potential relocation, etc. As for myself, it’s pretty simple: have cash, will travel. I’m saving up money for this and other projects anyways, and one of my next goals in life is to move somewhere I like better than here anyway, preferably with an ocean nearby. So there isn’t any part of this that would really be a change in my plans.

    If anyone else is interested, join the group and let’s talk (or PM me, whatever works). At some point we have to quit beating around the bush and expecting other people to pick up our ideas and run with them. I’m not expecting anything out of anyone other than seriousness about the project. Exactly what is done, how it is done and who pays for it is what needs to be discussed, at length. It may not work out, but face it, we aren’t getting any younger.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 100 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.



Posted on at

Categories:

Written by

Blog/Newsletter

Donate