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Seasteading Outpost: Belize

Home Forums Community IRL GTGs Seasteading Outpost: Belize

This topic contains 235 replies, has 35 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Pastor_Jason Pastor_Jason 2 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 236 total)
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  • #6170
    Profile photo of Thorizan
    Thorizan
    Participant

    In this we agree, PJ. I came to these forums primarily because of my desire to be part of the open-ocean aquaculture movement.

    I think that, in the beginning, we should focus on industries that thrive in the conditions in which we wish to live, and use the profits from those endeavors to both increase productivity, and shore ourselves up for that great and terrible day that is not far removed from our own.

    My concern is, however, that if we focus TOO much on self-sufficiency to start, we will not have enough capital and other resources in place for when we will truly need them. This is not to say that we should NEVER address these issues, but I think it will yield sub-optimal results if they are our focus on the outset.

    This was the intent of my previous post. I apologize that a fuller extent of my feelings on this matter was not made clear.

    I hope I have made thoughts on this issue more transparent than wet loam.

    Thanks.

    __________________________________________________
    There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Each to his fate.

    #6173
    Profile photo of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Bencoder: Go to Belize man!! I can tell you from personal experience that once you enter the rat race it’s very difficult to extricate yourself. The possibility of promotions, wives/girlfriends will tie you in. Plus it’ll look odd on your CV if you worked for a year and then went off the radar for a long time. On the other hand if you spend a year in Belize before heading to your first job with a gap between your graduation and job application, you can say you were taking a break to experience something different before starting your career, this is a common occurence. To sum up, do as I say, not as I do. :-)

    Regarding the food issue, clearly we can’t grow all the different fruits/vegetables let alone cattle that form our diets. But it is still meaningful, at least to me, to be able to provide the basic nutritional needs ourselves. And I agree with Pastor_Jason, albeit in less florid terms, that the future just became much more uncertain over the past 2 years. The old certainities seem rather like the finance industry, still gleaming steel and glass on the outside, but who knows whether the numbers add up???

    #6185
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I hope I didnt come across as an,..anti-food production aboard seasteads type of guy,…. I did raised the subject in the context of SOBIZ, beacause its important. And the subject was actually the size of the Outpost. SOBIZ, in my understanding, its an experiment in seasteading. Therefore, we should try to create, as much as possible, the same conditions on SOBIZ as if we’d be on a seastead. Otherwise, our experiment will be fictional. Thats why I like islands for an Outpost, of only 5-10 acres, because a seastead of that side is very feasible in the next 5-10 years, and that seastead will “behave” as an island (if started small, modular, gradually growing in size). So, in my view we should prepare for that. And yes, food production it is part of it. But we have to be realistic. I would say that if on a future seastead of the above mentioned size, (5-10 acres) and maybe 100-500 people, we can get up to 30-40% food self-sufficiency,…man we’re solid!

    I did find a good article related to the subject of food production and energy production:

    “Energy is the foundation of wealth. Inexpensive energy allows people to do wonderful things. For example, there is concern that it may become difficult to grow sufficient food on the available land. Crops grow more abundantly in a warmer, higher CO2 environment, so this can mitigate future problems that may arise (12).

    Energy provides, however, an even better food insurance plan. Energy-intensive hydroponic greenhouses are 2,000 times more productive per unit land area than are modern American farming methods (132). Therefore, if energy is abundant and inexpensive, there is no practical limit to world food production.”

    That “2000 times more,….” got me thinking,…Is it actually true?? Ahoy, O.

    #6189
    Profile photo of Thorizan
    Thorizan
    Participant

    Energy…. Inexpensive energy…. Energy provides…. Energy-intensive…. if energy is abundant and inexpensive….

    So, what I get from that piece is we should focus more on energy technology, milking as much of it from our ocean surface biome as possible, rather than that focus being on subsistance farming… at least to start.

    I think we are on the same page here, but I see energy extraction from the ocean in its infancy, and more development will need to be put in it to make it viable. Hydroponics, algae production, and aquaculture are more stable technologies (though not yet perfected), and can more easily be implemented in a structure than creating an abundant, inexpensive energy source whilest afloat on the briny deep.

    __________________________________________________
    There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Each to his fate.

    #6191
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    First I’ll address hydroponics vs. traditional agriculture. Wikipedia has a good chart on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics

    Taking a look at the chart you can see some extreme examples, like tomatoes which are 60 times more productive. Most plants are 2 to 6 times more productive in a hydroponic system compared to normal agriculture. Using this kind of technology which is already well established should allow seasteads to grow their own produce and eat a much healthier diet than the prepackaged junk most of us consume at the moment. Aeroponics is an interesting technology that I’m also curious about, and so is NASA which makes me think it would be suitable for seasteads.

    NASA is actually the example I would like to use for my next point. Octavian has forwarded the thought that since we’ll be living in cramped quarters aboard a seastead, our outpost should also be a relatively small area. I see the logic in this, as it will help us adjust to the dramatic change in lifestyle. However, NASA should be our model for this effort. To launch a space ship, the engineers and technicians spread out on a campus to give them all room to grow and develop multiple systems for this effort. The best were chosen and incorporated on a small vessel that was launched into space. Similarly, we’ll need some room to grow.

    Think of SOBZ as a launching pad for the rocket that is seasteading. 50-100 acres is ideal.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #6193
    Profile photo of Thorizan
    Thorizan
    Participant

    Per usual, I’m in complete agreement here.

    __________________________________________________
    There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Each to his fate.

    #6194
    Profile photo of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    Aeroponics is something I have been following for a while as well. What I like about it is that it isn’t some theoretical technology that is in the testing phases…there are actually several vendors who sell everything you need to establish functional aeroponic farms., from the hobbyist to professional-level greenhouses.

    The one I like is AgriHouse (http://www.agrihouse.com). They have an online store where you can purchase individual components to entire $25k or $50k aeroponic systems. Their Flex line is pretty cool, letting you pack tons of growing area into a small space. You can even do this stuff indoors since the systems come with integrated lighting and everything. Very nice.

    They even have consulting fees, so for $250 an hour you can have them help you setup a functioning aeroponic system. I think low space requirement systems like this will be vital for any seastead.

    #6195
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Energy extraction ON the ocean, mostly. Mainly solar and wind, wind beeing predominant. (OTEC and wave generated energy are not feasible, for now). But wind gens and solar panels are very affordable, and getting cheaper in price. Yes, it would require an initial investment, but energy self sufficiency on a seastead,(and I mean 100%) it is possible right now, for a seastead that is half mobile, half stationary (in terms of time). But if mostly mobile, 60% and up, I would guess that an external energy input is required.

    So, idealy, set sail to a nice tropical location, get there, drop the hook next to a nice coral reef, and take some time off this rat race. While your wind gens are purring one kw after another into your hydrogen tanks, have some lobster, served w/ cranberry seaweed salad, do some snorkling and fishing, sip on a couple of homemade brews while watching the sunset, and 6 month later sail for another paradise. Anybody?

    P.S: I hope day dreaming its not a sin, PJ, because I would be living in Hell by now. Ahoy, O.

    #6203
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    Just an observation I think is worth sharing. This thread is the longest on these boards, this post makes it 113. Infact it is so long that we’re larger than many whole headings on this forum. We’ve also gained the attention of TSI staff, some of whom comment on this thread.

    Just in the month of May, out of 20 blog posts, Patri’s commented about this effort 4 times!!

    I want to thank all of you for the excitement behind this effort. Judging by general interest and participation it would seem as though we might be on to something here.

    Octavian, dreaming is not a sin. =) Though the bible does say: “Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.” (James 4:17) Food for thought.

    Working on the questionaire, any other questions you all would like me to include?

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #6375
    Profile photo of Patri
    Patri
    Keymaster
    Pastor_Jason wrote:

    Just an observation I think is worth sharing. This thread is the longest on these boards, this post makes it 113. Infact it is so long that we’re larger than many whole headings on this forum. We’ve also gained the attention of TSI staff, some of whom comment on this thread.

    Just in the month of May, out of 20 blog posts, Patri’s commented about this effort 4 times!!

    Well, you are actually prepared to go do something, which makes you a minority even among the minority interested in seasteading :). Your approach may not be quite the one that suits my own skills/wants/lifestyle the best, but it seems to be good for yours and I wish you the best of luck!

    On people: I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t get very many at the beginning, so just be prepared for that. Hang tough, start a blog, enjoy what you start with, and we’ll keep spreading the word about you, and hopefully you will accumulate people and resources and infrastructure over time.

    Questionnaire: Let me know if you have anything you want posted on the blog or monthly newsletter (1000+ subscribers).

    #8440
    Profile photo of Chavva
    Chavva
    Participant

    I am wondering if the land you intend to live on, and start the Seasteading project from, has been purchased? Also, where exactly is this new place and is it a total of 100 acres as you originally intended?

    #8584
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    No, I’m not dead. =)

    Yes, I’m still planning on going down to Belize.

    I’m going to breath new life into this effort but I will do so slowly over the next few months. The main focus for this is my wife is due in early January with my first son (2 girls already) and we’re using the Bradley method which means my focus needs to remain on her rather than pet projects like SO:B. (Still love that abbreviation…)

    Some good news: The economic down-turn has actually produced an economic up-turn in my business (not my industry, just my specific business). The prices of some properties that we’ve been looking at have also dropped. The piece of land that I’ve been drooling over is 200 +/- acres that border the Caribbean Ocean and Belize’s Southern Lagoon along with the entire length of the Manatee River. The property has 3 mountains in it as well.

    One of the largest focuses I have over the next few months is reconciling my religious beliefs and responsibilities to God with the power and burdens of leading this effort. Aside from searching the obvious text, I’ve also taken up a study of the ‘Founding Fathers’ of America who were Christians and Deists and men of phenominal faith but chose to build an open society of tolerance and freedom. I’d love suggestions of other sources any of you might know of that may be helpful to me in this effort.

    I hope all of you are well. I look forward to catching up on all of the activity I missed over these past 6 months.

    Live Well!

    -Jason

    #8590
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Welcome back! Were have you been? I thought you got abducted by aliens :-). Glad to hear that you’re alive and well.

    Octavian

    #8605
    Profile photo of bencoder
    bencoder
    Participant

    Really good to see you here again PJ :)

    #11274

    How would the first 3 months of belize presence look like? – Can anyone paint the overall picture for us…

    Wil

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