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Seasteading Outpost Belize – a practical approach how to find a suitable beach property in the caribbean

Home Forums Community Active Seasteading Projects Seasteading Outpost Belize – a practical approach how to find a suitable beach property in the caribbean

This topic contains 92 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ellmer - http://yook3.com ellmer – http://yook3.com 8 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 93 total)
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  • #16256
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    This discussion is all part of the planning stage. We first need to decide on what, where, why as in will it make money, and how much will it cost, and combine it all in a plan, before anyone will invest in it.

    #16259
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    WHAT, I think it was covered:

    Seasteading Outpost Project should be a partnership based business venture with it’s main purpose to:

    • support a eco-turism business
    • support seasteading manufacturing.

    WHY:

    We all now why,…

    WHERE:

    To be discussed.

    But all the what’s, why’s, and where’s are dependent of the size of our wallet. If we have 5 people @ $10k each, $50k, forget about Belize or Columbia, let’s start with 3 houseboats in the Keys, since it is all we can afford for that cash. If we have 10 people @ $20k each, $200k, a lot of locations are doable now, etc, etc.

    But if we don’t have @ least the slightest idea of how much money we can raise, how can we even talk about what, why and where?

    People should start saying “I do” or just go their own way, and also spit out how much cash they can drop in this if we agree on something. And I am talking greenback numbers not “well,…maybe 100 here or there”. At least $1000 down payment, right away. But if we don’t get that partnership going, with legal papers, a business bank account, etc, I really don’t see how anybody will invest on “let’s do this gig” alone.

    I won’t, for sure.

    #16261
    Profile photo of lietosanabaltija
    lietosanabaltija
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS, I rented a houseboat for a week a few years back in the Keys, and have some observations that might help you decide what to do with that idea.

    First of all, the Keys, inside the protective chain of islands, Intracoastal Waterway I think it is called, is great for using houseboats within the marked routes. However, if you start taking the houseboats from the marked routes, you very quickly run the risk of grounding the boat and damaging the engines/hulll, because the Keys lagoon is very shallow at times.

    I took my chartered houseboat outside of the protective Intracoastal Waterway and into the open waters (close to the shore, however) for a short morning tour, and what quickly became evident, was that the waves in the open waters are WAY too strong for the houseboat’s engine to handle.

    One thing that is great about the Keys lagoon, is that you can get mobile internet at the highest broadband speeds within your houseboat, which allows you to work on the boat, if you work online for a living, and the coastal areas within the Intracoastal Waterway have numerous places to go onshore for getting supplies and for onshore entertainment.

    The best way to do location research on the Keys is to charter a houseboat yourself, a weekly charter is not too expensive, the boats are really easy to handle, and you get plenty of time to cruise up & down the waterway.

    #16263
    Profile photo of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster
    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    That’s why I suggested to TSI to have a new forum, ONGOING SEASTEADING OUTPOST PROJECTS. But nobody from TSI replied to that,…

    Did you actually suggest something directly to the TSI staff (i.e. via email), and if so, who?

    As far as the discussion in the forums about having a new forum, there seemed to be limited interest, so I never followed up with the TSI staff to get the okay to create one.

    If there is sufficient interest, I will follow up. And if created, I can move appropriate existing threads to that forum.

    Ken

    #16265
    Profile photo of Smit457
    Smit457
    Participant

    Colombia is a BAD option for seasteading. Old town in Cartagena is ok, the rest of the country sucks badly. Strong storms hits the coast regularly. Strong winds. High waves. Rain. Flooding. Very weak property rights. Squatters can occupy your land. Plenty of fraud. Marriage fraud. Fake police officers. Fake dollars. Fake emeralds. Drug trade. Violence. Corrupt police. Corrupt politicians. Corrupt lawyers. You can only trust your family. Have been there. Have seen it. Backpacked in Latin America. Colombia really sucks badly. Most of Latin America is better. Civil war gives a country bad scars. Key West is a MUCH better option than Colombia for seasteading. Many RICH tourists. Good infrastructure. Skilled labour. Strong property rights. Protected water. Key West is a good place for seasteading. Netherlands also is a good option. A lot of house boats. High property prices. Protected water. No hurricanes.

    #16266
    Profile photo of lietosanabaltija
    lietosanabaltija
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS, you’re lucky having lived in Key West, absolute gorgeous out there. When I went to the city, I was onboard a small propeller plane from Fort Myers to Key West, front seat next to the pilot, and saw the place from the best possible angle, just an unbelievably beautiful location.

    #16264
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    And I worked on boats there. Yes, a lots of shallows, but is just a matter of knowing the local waters. It also depends of how big of a houseboat you rented, and how big of an engine. In general, houseboars are not designed for offshore, but for protected waters and dockside living. Other than that, to me, it’s the best spot to start seasteading and make money while doing so, much better than Belize and Columbia. Key West is the busiest touristic city on the East Coast and the local government there don’t give a rats ass about the rest of the US. You can do anything you want, just don’t rape, molest, beat or kill anybody. (as they say there). It is Conch Republic at its best.

    By the way, there is a dockside houseboat rental business for sale in Key Largo, 3 houseboats, website and everything for $99k.

    http://keys.craigslist.org/bfs/2685016084.html

    #16267
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Not this season, but the next one I’m planning to move back there for good, and do it right this time, ON A BOAT, and live rent free at the hook. (rent tends to be a bit high there, specially in Old Town)

    #16273
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Smit457 wrote:

    Colombia is a BAD option for seasteading. Old town in Cartagena is ok, the rest of the country sucks badly. Strong storms hits the coast regularly. Strong winds. High waves. Rain. Flooding.

    the very last of what was left of the hurricanes that frequent the east-coast.

    Very weak property rights.

    Squatters can occupy your land.

    OMG~!!! I just found our loop hole, Free Land everyone!!!! Wooo HOOOO :-D!!!

    Plenty of fraud. Marriage fraud.

    what’s marriage fraud?

    legally speaking marriage is a calamity.

    That’s one of the reason I’m going seasteading, to avoid silly taxes.

    Fake police officers. Fake dollars.

    Awesome yo! Anyone can be a peace-officer just like Canada :-).

    And anyone can make their own currency?! that’s great to :-).

    None of that american monopolization tactics.

    Fake emeralds.

    ya, well can get them yourself if you’re so concerend.

    Drug trade.

    herbs and spices

    Violence. Corrupt police. Corrupt politicians. Corrupt lawyers.

    what’s the difference between bribes, fees and campaign donations?

    You can only trust your family.

    friends and family, just like always.

    I’m baffled by people that trust strangers just because of their clothing.

    Have been there. Have seen it. Backpacked in Latin America.

    ahem, backpacking and seasteading, are a completely different perspective.

    Seasteading is from the ocean, which is relatively devoid of life.

    Toronto is completely different, if you’re on the water, looking at it.

    Technically would only need to go into town on occasion where it can’t be delivered to the dock.

    Colombia really sucks badly. Most of Latin America is better. Civil war gives a country bad scars. Key West is a MUCH better option than Colombia for seasteading.

    I like oxygen, so am likely to stick to high-latitudes, and only travel through the equator occasionally.

    Many RICH tourists.

    ya, I dono, I can doodle on my own pieces of paper.

    Or rather, what is it now, add numbers on a calculator, yes.

    I rather have loyal supportive friends in community.

    Good infrastructure.

    expensive and regulated

    Skilled labour.

    rich people are unlikely to join a commune.

    but in third-world countries,

    it could actually improve their quality of life.

    Strong property rights.

    impling sirens, handcuffs, debt-slavery and concrete prisons.

    Protected water.

    ya, the doldrums are several orders of magnitude larger.

    Key West is a good place for seasteading.

    Netherlands also is a good option.

    A lot of house boats. High property prices.

    Protected water. No hurricanes.

    Ya, you, and what army of lawyers and millionaires?

    We with You are a Network, our goal to become technologically-enabled reproducible family communities. http://weyounet.info

    #16274

    The thread – “Seasteading Outpost Belize – a practical approach how to find a suitable beach property in the caribbean” – did not intend to create a competition of spots but chat about a general approach that makes sense to FIND a spot that is suitable.
    Smit457 for example seems to believe that yellowpress coverage should be weighted higher than ojective hurricane charts when evaluating the danger potential of a spot – from my point of view this is not a method that is very prone to bring up good decisions.
    I would suggest that before we even think in take a spot in consideration or dismiss it we should have a local scout who digs up realistic facts.
    As far as i see it we have ocean in florida, i can talk about cartagena, we have a scout in anguilla, maybe we have one in belize, – people who know the local situation should speak out, propose, we should end up with a criteria list, then do a spot evaluation according to the criteria list and then try to narrow it down to a handfull of places where a pilot project would be worth starting. Once pilot projects are in place some will run into “unexpected difficulties” and some will prosper – the most promising spot should be choosen as result of the pilot projects and major funds should be asigned to develop the spot.
    But all this is just chat if there are no funds – not even for small scale site test pilot projects …
    So digging out authentic info about a big number of spots and listen to the locals that know that spots, might be the best we can do for now to move a seasteading project forward – in this case we have at least a realistic plan based on hard facts in the case that start up fund should pop up.
    I agree with ocean that budget frames also limit the locations … for example i am not really on board for acting as local frontman for a seasteading project that has total monthly funds in the “below 5k” range…because i know that below 5k you can certainly not build anything that will impress anybody and act as a gamechanger with investment magnet quality.
    I can not see why accumulating old houseboats should lead us to anything else than a accumulation of old houseboats and a hippie community that will not impress anybody and attract no investment from anywhere.
    But that is just my thought – somebody else may see that as THE seasteading plan….
    Maybe we are just to diverse as a group to do ANYTHING in common agreement. You need a high level of agreement with your investors to get a project funded … that is part of the problem why we are basicly on square one as a seasteading movement…just talking about…
    Wil
    #16268
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You are right that I didn’t make an official request for that, it was just a suggestion, somewhere in the SOBIZ thread. Here it was:

    {How about naming the new forum

    “Seasteading projects” or “Actual seasteading projects” or “Ongoing (current?) seasteading projects”

    I think it will benefit everybody, including TSI. Members who work on actual projects can post their projects there. The new members and/or the guests can visit the forum and get an idea of what is going on, what has been achieved so far and what is actually done towards seasteading by the members themselves. Thus more people can choose to join TSI in order to be part of a certain project, the one that fit their needs best. I think it will encourage participation, innovation, and therefore growth and advancement of the seasteading cause.

    And, if TSI would bring some of those grants back for those projects that they consider to be most likely to succeed due to best concept, planning, participation, etc, the better. I am talking about actual projects, privately financed by the participating members and under developmpent as potential grants beneficiaries.

    My 2 cents,… }

    But since nobody commented on it I guess you’re right again that there was no interest in it. But, I was living under the impression that you are the liaison and somehow, since you were participating in that discussion, you might follow up on it. There was no criticism intended in my remarks. Just an observation :)

    #16275
    Profile photo of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster
    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    But since nobody commented on it I guess you’re right again that there was no interest in it. But, I was living under the impression that you are the liaison and somehow, since you were participating in that discussion, you might follow up on it. There was no criticism intended in my remarks. Just an observation :)

    In general terms, I’m not officially a liaison to the TSI staff.

    In this specific instance, being a volunteer admin who has the system authorities required to set up a new forum, I was watching to see what kind of response there would be to the idea of having the new forum.

    Because the response was minimal, and because there are other pending issues at the TSI staff level relating to the forums, I did not contact the TSI staff about it.

    Ken

    #16276

    before we where sidetracked to a “which spot is better” discussion – we where talking about a possible economic setup in a caribbean coral/mangrove ambient. – i suggest we split the “which spot is better discussion” to another thread (somebody who wants to discuss that pls open it) – and return this thread to the “practical approach” – which includes the economic setup in the first steps.

    For those who are ANTI rincon – please take this as a practical real world example – not as a undue narrow down to a specific location – as it was taken…i would like to respond to the question of valliant yetti, decameron, in a bit more detail just to make the general point – i am sure that similar economic set ups can be created in florida and at least 500 other spots in the caribbean. ..

    #16277
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I am assuming a minimum funding level of 5K per month.

    Used houseboats would be great as a way to start while building something more permanent, but it already seems clear that the lack of seaworthiness which also translates into the high cost of transporting them to Rincon or even Belize eliminates the savings on the initial purchase price.

    Seasteading in the US is a dead end, with an interference factor of 0 to 1, maybe at best a 2 in the Florida Keys for anything other than tourism. The environmentalists and commercial fishing industry are already mounting an organized attack against open ocean aquaculture and have successfuly interfered with a project in Hawaii.

    With the low labor costs in Rincon or Belize, it should be possible to custom build very nice floating bungalows and ocean window units. An advantage of Rincon over Belize is a lot of the materials and supplies are easily available in Cartagena. I know from a coworker from Belize that many things taken for granted in the US are either in short supply or very expensive. When going back to visit family from the US to Belize, he would buy a pickup truck with a blown engine, repair, fill it and a trailer with supplies and equipment his relatives and others needed, and drive it to Belize to leave it, truck, trailer, and everything else with it, and fly back. He more than paid for the trip this way.

    I agree with Wil’s approach of building a floating housing unit for a seasteading crew to start out in. It can a dormer with common areas for meals, bathing, toilets, and lounge. The beds could be private sleeping chanbers, 4’x8’x4′ with a twin size reclining mattress, LCD monitor, audio system, and 1’6″x4’x4′ storage area, the other 6″ is the bulkhead wall separating the chambers at the foot of the beds. These can be stacked 2 high with closing pull down or sliding doors (dimensions can be modified to optimize for metric building materials). This design achieves a high occupancy while allowing privacy. The sleeping comparments, baths and toilets can be down in the floatation and the lounge, galley, and dining topside, or have everything below with a clear top deck for open space and outdoor activity. An alternate design, or later version could have private dorm rooms, 6’x6’x8′, with loft bed, seating or desk under bed, and sink. Larger more luxurious units would follow, so settlers can progress from the sleeping chambers to dorm rooms to larger units as they work and earn money in the community, as the community and its businesses themselves grow.

    It needs to be determined, is it more cost effective to build the entire unit out of concrete or build it as a structure on top of a catamaran float with 3′ wide decks around the housing structure. I originally conceived of this using shipping containers on cement floats, but maybe it is better to just build it as an integrated floating structure finished inside. Shipping containers are available in 10′ widths which are more efficient than 8′ and may be available as oddball used surplus. Also, depending on balance of trade, Cartagena may not even have used containers available – they seem to be piling up in the US ports these days.

    The advantage of custom building from concrete is the dimensions can be more optimized. The length of the units would be about 50′ and joined to form a grid of aquaculture pens and/or floating marina. It may be better to use free floating pens and just have a marina, or square pens supported by booms on three sides and connected in a row along a long dock.

    Shredder, if you feel inclined, please sketch up something. It is actually pretty similar to your bergstead, but longer and maybe no walls to be able to use the tops as docks and open space. I plan to throw up some basic CAD designs as well.

    Wil, do you have a source for cost figures for labor, materials, and furnishings in Colombia to build the above mentioned designs. Also, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the better way to go on the initial design, cost comparison, catamaran bungalow or all cement.

    #16279
    Profile photo of Smit457
    Smit457
    Participant

    Dudes. No hurricanes in Colmbia? Not the truth. Wikipedia says: “Cartagena de Indias is rarely touched by the hurricanes that decimate other Caribbean capitals like Havana, Santo Domingo, Kingston or San Juan.” Category 4 Hurricane Joan-Mirriam caused one billion dollar in damage in Colombia. 27 000 homeless.

    High waves often roll in at the pacific coast of colombia, panama and venezuela. Have seen it. The bay of Cartagena is protected, not the coastline.

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