Seasteading Outpost Belize – a practical approach how to find a suitable beach property in the caribbean
November 7, 2011 at 11:19 pm #16230
I made a Rincoin thread “Rincoin Coralstead Village” with my reply, also added to map
We with You are a Network, our goal to become technologically-enabled reproducible family communities. http://weyounet.infoNovember 8, 2011 at 1:13 am #16236
Pastor, there is need for development – industrial and touristic – so one business plan could be build floating platforms in that zone and sell them off as floating docks, and ship repair platforms for the bay of cartagena and its shipyard zone mammonal along the lines of (valliant yetti) – another would be a tourism platform along the lines of quicksilver for the coral zone of the san bernardo achipelago, another fishing platforms and aquaculture units for the people of islote, i was also thinking in floating bungalows for expanding the decamaron project, or in underwater rooms for tourism. Finally a big fancy floating international marina for yachts from all over the caribbean to pass trough the hurricane period outside the hurricane zone.
The good thing of this place is that it is at the moment where underdevelopment is still a leading factor, but the first fancy hotels and superyachts have already put their nose into the zone – so you can still have a big chunck of uncompeted beach for a seastead floating right – but you can already develop business when the seastead develops.
For a better idea of the zone check videos and images hereNovember 8, 2011 at 5:47 am #16238
Now that we have decided on a location, we just need to decide what to build, cost it out, determine the market, and put together the plan. Wil, it would be great if we could get the floating rights from Rincon immediately in writing, but we can wait to present them a written definite plan as well – your call since you know the area and the people.
My preferences for starting projects to bring in positive cash flow as soon as possible are tourist rentals and aquaculture. It sounds like Rincon already has experience with seafood, so we could leverage off of this to mutual benefit, supplying fish to put their processing capability back to work, or hiring their fishing fleet to take it to market in Cartagena and harvesting sardines to use as feed.
For tourist units, I’ve considered the floating catamaran bungalows as a low cost entry point. Does Rincon have building tradesmen to finish them. The palm frond architecture has a nice exotic look to it. I also like that log stilt house. Another option I like are the underwater rooms, if you can economicaly add submerged windows to the concrete structure. This would be a very unique travel destination to market. I’m thinking maybe these units could be joined at right angle in a grid to form aquaculture pens, so it could be an attraction similar to the Rosaritas Oceanarium, but overnight. Parking the submerged windows next to a reef would also be quite a draw.
I don’t know the local market there for building and selling floating docks and industrial platforms, could be good if you know they will sell right away as they are built, better if they can even be pre-sold for a deposit.November 8, 2011 at 7:54 am #16239
I’m a little confused, what are mammonal, valliant yetti, quicksilver, and decamaron project? Very interested in the floating bungalows, any design examples and cost figures?November 8, 2011 at 11:37 am #16240
i can help by making 3D visualization!
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”November 8, 2011 at 12:49 pm #16241admiral wrote:
Now that we have decided on a location…
I don’t know have we decided ? – we are having a nice chat about how a startup in the caribbean could look like, how you would tackle the matter – how you would scout the place – what are the desireable zones from a economic and interfernce freedom point of view. Rincon and the san bernardo archipelago came up as a example because it is a zone that i scouted a decade ago for building a beachhouse called Arenaqua.
So i can give a realistic view and educated guess what would happen IF we would put a seastead in that zone.
Frankly there might be a thousand spots like that in the caribbean that have not been scouted yet and therefore not entered in the TSI universe as an option.
What concerns the rest of your post above – exactly this is the way as i would start it. What we would build first is just a floating platform which will allow a small pioneering team to stay and de facto live in the zone. From this platform we would build more platforms for sales purpose or to expand the project – depends what turns out to be more feasible.
I already mentioned that if i had a dozend of such platforms for sale right now i could sell them all in a 2 hour tow area. If i had a mero guasa breeding facility i could sell tons of product in the hotel sector.
If i had a floating tourist attraction of any kind (scuba – underwater windows – shark feeding – beerstead) it would work just fine and economic feasible – right now the main trourism magnet is the oceanarium.November 8, 2011 at 12:56 pm #16242
Guys, are you out of your mind? Colombia is the largest producer of cocaine in the world, 535 metric tons. It’s is the country of Pablo Escobar. 17 000 homicides every year. 300 kidnappings. The drugs are smuggled from Colombia through Central America and Mexico. Fast motorboats, airplanes and drug subs bring them over to US. Drugs are dumped from airplanes in Panama every day. The small cities along the coastline are controlled by drug lords armed to their tooth with rifles and machine guns. The fishermen get extra dollars from the drug trade. Bernardo islands is a transfer point for drugs. You could as well start up your business in Iraq or Afghanistan. Trust me, I have been in Colombia and it’s NOT the place for seasteading. Wake up! What dude wants to visit a dirty shanty town in the Colombian bush? Bad road access. Beggars everywhere. Snakes. Corruption. Guns. Why do you even think the Colombians will support your ideas? I bet they will send helicopters with marines and crack down on a gringo seasteading community. The country is fighting a civil war. I bet Wilfried Ellmer NOT is popular in Colombia. Do the Colombians want concrete subs? Concrete drug subs? NO. Do the US Navy want it? NO. Do you think he will get support from the authorites? NO. Why do you think his concrete sub hasn’t been launched? Most info about Colombia on the forum comes from Wilfried Ellmer and it’s badly, badly skewed. Seateading business in Belize, maybe. Business, in Colombia, no thanks. WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! Guys, let’s do seateading in US or Belize. Much, much better than Colombia. Colombia is a dangerous country with many serious and BIG problems.November 8, 2011 at 4:05 pm #16245
I was going to look into what other issues might be present. Kidnappings, mosquitos, and mercury run-off from gold mining immediately came to mind. It has been my experience, though, that the mainstream media gives a lot more negative impression of a place than what it is really like when you are there.November 8, 2011 at 5:25 pm #16248
Wil has been building submarines there for years, one of the most sensitive items he could be producing there. I would think that if there were any problems he would have found them by now.
Colombia is not Mexico. It used to be dangerous, but that was then. I know someone who owns stock in a gold mine there. He says that businessmen don’t need any kind of private security there.November 8, 2011 at 5:33 pm #16249
Coke is dirt cheap there,…:)November 8, 2011 at 5:55 pm #16250
Belize has higher murder rate, trending up, 42/100,000 now from 16 in 2000, Columbia trending down, 38/100,000 now from 64 in 2000, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate . Both are comparable to Washington, D.C. , 24/100,000 trending down from 44 in 2000.
Much of the homicide in Columbia seems to be clustered in Valle del Cauca on the Pacific side,
Overall, Wil’s assessment is consistent wih Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia . It looks like an emerging resource economy which promises to become a powerhouse rivalling Brazil.November 8, 2011 at 6:11 pm #16251Smit457 wrote:
…..Colombia is the largest producer of cocaine in the world….WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! …..Guys, let’s do seateading in US .
he, he, you are funny – have you ever thought about that US is where the consumers of the drug trade sits, (seems to be the worse part) so dangerdangerdanger …. the homicide rates per 10.000 inhabitants of Washington DC are higher than those of mayor cities in colombia. Cartagena is the safest spot of all. This is what yellow press does NOT tell you…
I go with the colombian tourism slogan ” the danger is that you want to stay” – i did it for the last 15 years.
To get a realistic perception about the zone we are talking check the videos and pictures of the target zone here – the benefit is you can have top caribbean conditions without having to pay caribbean luxury real estate – as the yellow press brainwashed main tourist streams has not flooded the zone yet due to Colombia negative image – in business terms this is a opportunity.
Colombia is nr 3 latin american economic power – Brazil, Mexico, Colombia. And best performer under all latin american economies. What i do for a living when i do not build submarines, or chat at TSI is advise european companies how to open subsidiaries in Colombia.
WilNovember 8, 2011 at 6:24 pm #16253
At least for Belize the crime happens in the cities, there is almost no crime as you get away from Belize City. The other cities are smaller and have less crime, but Belize City is no joke, treat it as you would Washington DC or Baltimore, MD.
I’ve got no issue with Colombia and having a person on site there is a benefit. I think Smit457 is fear-mongering but reality does not match his point of view.November 8, 2011 at 6:43 pm #16254
is beyond the point in regards to the SOBIZ concept. First, we are talking about Columbia under a SOBIZ thread. This should have been SO Columbia, under a separate thread. That’s why I suggested to TSI to have a new forum, ONGOING SEASTEADING OUTPOST PROJECTS. But nobody from TSI replied to that,…
Regardless, I think the SOBIZ dialog is skipping important steps. We don’t have a BUDGET and no COMMUNITY of investors yet, but we are talking about what, where and how!
SHOW ME THE MONEY AND SHOW ME THE PEOPLE. Until then, this is, again and again, just chat!
Are we doing this SOBIZ “thing” according to previosly accepted organizational guidelines or are we continuing to fuck around? If are going to fuck around, at least let’s starts kissing first before we spread the legs.
SOBIZ first order of business should be to sign up a “critical mass” of entrepreneurs, organized as a community based on the general principles that PJ outlined above:
- everybody has to contribute financially, physically and socially
- everybody doing so will share in the SOBIZ profits
Anything other than this, it’s a waste of time, IMHO.November 8, 2011 at 6:56 pm #16255
My hot button on Colombia over Belize is that it is hurricane free, with the added benefits of Wil already on site and it is still relatively undiscovered – an incredible opportunity, though I like the very small population of Belize, along with the immense reef and an interesting, diverse culture.
What is the mosquito situation like in Rincon? Is the beach pretty free of them? Any idea on how far out from the coast to be to avoid them?
There seems to be an airstrip just north of Rincon, though it looks like a couple of craters need to be filled in. This could be quite useful for flying in tourists from Cartagena. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rincon+colombia&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=9.773115,-75.639303&spn=0.004991,0.009291&sll=4.44998,-75.44998&sspn=0.04039,0.074329&vpsrc=6&hnear=Rinc%C3%B3n,+Tolima,+Colombia&t=h&z=17
Also, it looks like there is a development of new identical beach houses on the south end of Rincon, http://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?hl=en&ll=9.755267,-75.646083&spn=0.009982,0.018582&vpsrc=6&ctz=480&t=h&z=16
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