Seasteading Outpost Belize – a practical approach how to find a suitable beach property in the caribbean
November 2, 2011 at 4:05 am #16121
for houseboats for sale in Belize and Columbia and nothing popped up.
Personally, I don’t know much about Columbia, other than whatever Wil is telling us here about it. All the data that I presented here regarding a houseboatstead related business is based on my actual research and experience living and working on the water in Key West FL. Also, the key element for such business success is the presence of a reef and Columbia doesn’t have one. (or does it?)
If we are leaving Belize and the Florida Keys out of this conversations and adress Columbia as a candidate for a seasteading outpost project, I can only speculate how a houseboatstead will do there, so, even though I do have some ideas, I won’t mention them untill Wil will give us further feedback on the subject.November 2, 2011 at 11:06 am #16125
Also, the key element for such business success is the presence of a reef and Columbia doesn’t have one. (or does it?)
They have less reefs than most of Caribbean, but they have some: http://www.wri.org/map/caribbean-regionWorld wrote:
There are about 2,000 sq km of coral reef areas within the Colombian Caribbean. About two-thirds of Colombia’s coral reefs in the Caribbean are […] located more than 700 km from the Colombian continental coast. Colombia’s Caribbean coastline stretches 1,700 kilometers, but coral reefs are restricted to fewer than 150 km.November 5, 2011 at 8:59 pm #16181
The largest reef, pretty much only reef, along with a nice group of islands is right off shore from Wil’s current location. Wil, do know how close it is possible to secure a beach/anchor out location in front of a ranch as previously mentioned, and how much?November 5, 2011 at 11:31 pm #16188
There are 2 coral island groups the Rosario Islands and the San Bernardo Islands just outside cartagena ( 40 min – 2 hours in boat) – to get an idea of the location check pictures and videos of the area ( here )
I built a beachhouse in the san bernardo area some 10 years ago – i bought a official title for 30m beach aquired from a native for 6 mio Cop ( 3,133 USD) – i built on stilts not taking down a single mangrove bush. This was accepted as good practice. I also must say that there are areas in Baru where there exist 5 owners for the same piece of beach, (all having a 300 year old land title) and the colombian government has started to charge rent for existing houses with fixed foundations as they occupy public territory (the beach is public according modern colombian law) – although they may have (half valid – older ) land titles. So secure any real estate on the beach is kind of relative as the legislation is just not clear. I think this is so in most of the caribbean i know so having land on the beach can just be a impossible to achieve – except you buy a complete island like Richard Branson.
Renting floating rights in front of the beach might be the nearest you can get to have beach property that is not in legal cuestion. I think it may have been a better investment to rent the floating right in front of the 30m beach and keep the native in charge of the land – he has a “natural birth right” to be there – he would have loved to rent the floating right for 100 years for less than 1000 USD.
Around cartagena the “seasteading hot zone” where the poverty belts of the city start to thin out and real estate agents start to loose interest in driving land prices up starts about 1 hour in boat from the city center.
WilNovember 6, 2011 at 4:49 am #16191
Are there any ranches along the coast near the San Bernardo Islands where beach/flotation area might be leased? Below is link to area in question.November 6, 2011 at 1:12 pm #16194
all the area is farm property from canal del dique to Rincon there is no land access to the coastline. The next coastal settlements are tolu and covnas.November 6, 2011 at 8:18 pm #16202
Do we need coastal access from land? Maybe the isolation is a good thing. The area south of this cape looks ideal, protected waters, 3 miles to islands and reefs, coastal access at Rincon or the other settlement on the coast in the bay west of the cape with a road going inland.November 6, 2011 at 9:53 pm #16204
mangrove / coral ambients have no road access – if they do it is the exception and there is always a major city built around the sea shore access point – and a cramped and competed city is not a good seasteading outpost location. I would see it as a more realistic setup to plan for a access road free ambient, in a tropical coastal zone. It matters little if the terrain is an island or part of the mainland coral mangrove ambients are ambients where the sea and the land have a mix up that goes over many miles and where roads and normal buildings can not be implemented.
This made cartagena the access point to the south american continent – the only point where ships could touch land and troops could desembark for marching into the fertile and agriculture suitable interior on decent roads or waterways without being deminished in intransitable mangrove swamps jungles or deserts – between mexico and brazil –
this was 300 years ago in times of the spanish treasure fleet – and it has not changed that much what concerns shore access since.
To get a good image how buildings settlements and structures in mangrove / coral ambients look like and how they can be accessed by boat check here. To find a couple of videos about installations in coral/mangrove ambient in the san bernardo islands the rosario islands. They are already a kind of breakwater marina installation although they work on base of stilts and landfill instead of buoyant platforms.
If the mangrove/coral ambient is part of an island or part of the mainland makes as good as no difference –
concretesubmarine.comNovember 7, 2011 at 1:16 am #16205
Here’s the town five miles to the east of the cape in the bay, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.696811,-75.616418&spn=0.00808,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17 . looks like they have a pier and docks.
The following spots are in order moving west from the town to the end of the cape.
looks like some agricultural activity here a mile or so east of the town, orchards and a structure, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.696261,-75.636503&spn=0.00808,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17
lagoons and mangroves with beaches here, very promising, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.703251,-75.645043&spn=0.00808,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17
this is either a resort or mansion with airstrip, probably out of bounds for anhorage, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.709417,-75.655686&spn=0.008079,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17
mangrove and swamps, looks like a reef right off shore, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.706339,-75.66738&spn=0.008079,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17
here’s a small settlement with roads, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.707143,-75.678442&spn=0.008079,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17
the beginning of the cape, choice! http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.707873,-75.691649&spn=0.008079,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17
the point of the cape, the tip and island have settlement, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.695341,-75.701809&spn=0.00808,0.009645&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=17 , http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.69864,-75.702906&spn=0.00202,0.002411&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=19
the cape, zoomed out, first choice for an anchorage, http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+bernardo+islands+colombia&ll=9.699793,-75.69593&spn=0.016159,0.01929&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Islas+De+San+Bernardo&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=16 . Any idea if this would be available and interference free?November 7, 2011 at 3:53 am #16207
the dry land zone between the 2 access roads who end in Rincon and Berugas is kind of ruled out – i would see chances for a seastead north of rincon or even in front of rincon as the mayor of this village is eager to bring tourism and development in.
The village is basicly his “extended family”.
Another option would be a cooperation with Hotel Decamaron who runs a island resort on the island in front – a cooperation with the island that is marked as “el islote” – the whole reef zone is protected calm water.
Guardarrayo, Tigua , Comisario, and the surroundings… up the coastline to the tip of the island of baru.November 7, 2011 at 4:12 am #16209
Rincon looks doable, not as nice as the bay. Can’t find Berugas on Google maps, is it the other town five miles east of the cape? It would be nice to be in that bay, it would almost be like being in a lake.November 7, 2011 at 4:18 am #16208
One of the most interesting places might be 9.785882,-75.85903 santa cruz del islote – it is promoted by its inhabitants as the densest poblated spot on earth. It is a coral rock that started as a fishing outpost for one family and as the family grew to a extended family they got “overpopulation” they live on fishing and tourism – and they would like to have a seastead as “extended territory” nearby – i think they have even a land title for that rock…
They are really close to seasteading already… and they have birth and fishing rights to the lagoon of the san bernardo archipelago.
They would be easy to convince that expanding islote by floating concrete honeycomb structures is a great idea. Watch the much bigger island in the background and the mainland coast being as good as uninhabitated.November 7, 2011 at 3:32 pm #16215
Ok. lets do it in Rincon – you can float hurricane free, the waves allow a modular building approach, you get workers (some 50 maximum) you can bring in material in trucks by land (sometimes when road is good) and in boat by sea (always), you have a enthusiastic mayor, you will enjoy a estimated interference freedom factor of 8-9 on the 1-10 scale.
People comming in new can fly to cartagena take a bus or a boat to rincon (2 hours) – there are basic but economic overnight accomodation you can work with. In Balsillas just outside of rincon there is a tourism development with beach houses – so there is a general understanding how investment and development benefits a village – you got a excellent local investment and safety climate based on the understanding of the natives that they will go nowhere in generations if development does not come in in form of projects – rincon as epicenter of seasteading development they would like it.
I can travel to rincon and grab the Mayor have a village councel tomorrow to make them sign our floating rights in exchange of bringing in a new source for jobs where there is non (exept Balsillas which is seasonal and creates a few watchmen and housekeeper jobs). The big mayority of the village knows the ocean and lives of fishing – the zone is overfished so current incomes are bad.
The golden question is : what budget frame do i have to pull it off? – until now i had cero budget for “seasteading rincon project” – if i would have had budget frames i would have done it already years ago…so how do we change this situation?
WilNovember 7, 2011 at 8:10 pm #16218
I know I am newer here but without one or two designs for the starting seastead you can not know how much a month you need to budget. I mean supplies to build design would change alot from a plastic bottles to several tons of concrete. Labor will change based on how much welding vs concrete vs plastic vs fiberglass work is needed. Food, well I eat alot just look at my facebook account. (wish I was joking)
I mean do you start with a cube, a plate, a cluster of balls (new post), a Trapezoid, or something I am not listing.
Do people really have a design they want to start with? if so can we see a cost of design?November 7, 2011 at 9:21 pm #16223
I like this. Here’s the first question I would ask: Is there a demand on Rincon for more land? If so, what kind of price will the market down there bear?
I think this has the potential to grow into something huge if it’s pitched right and we can bring on some investment capital. We’d be building the Venice of South America between Rincon and Balsillas. Using Wil’s methods we could keep our costs down and keep the rents low to grow out this community as quickly as possible. As the city grows, we’ll be able to increase rents and this business will become a wealthy land-owner in a city without land. The irony is amusing.
Find a buyer in Rincon, someone interested in having more space. Let me know how much capital you need to build it and we’ve got a good starting place. You can talk to the mayor from a position of strength at that point. This has nothing to do with SO:BIZ, but remains a good start to seasteading none-the-less. We get a single deal done here, then I’ll consider being the second client and ‘seasteading’ in Rincon on a simple platform structure. I’ll have to brush up on my spanish. That will give us two ‘proof of concept’ pieces and we should be able to expand from there. If Rincon does a steady business in tourism maybe Ocean will want to open his hospitality industry on a floating structure (that’d be 3 seasteads operating in this area).
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