Seasteading Outpost Belize – a practical approach how to find a suitable beach property in the caribbean
October 30, 2011 at 5:34 pm #16052
This is a great plan Wil.
Are you scouting locations now?
My greatest concerns:
1) This is outside of the zone of hurricanes, but waves travel across entire oceans. How big do the waves get when a hurricane passes by?
2) A 15 km long community could develop here, and the maritime authorities would not object? This is interesting. Why is that?October 30, 2011 at 7:19 pm #16055
ellmer – http://yook3.comParticipant
i am not directly scouting locations as i do not have a project for which to scout and no budget frame in which to look – so it would not really make sense to scout as it would not be clear for what kind of development you are scouting at the end – and what conditions you need and can offer to a partner.
I do not like the kind of conversation that get stuck in the second line “aha seasteading”, waterspace rent ! – what exactly do you have in mind? – aehm can`t tell… what sum we are talkin about – aehm- can’t tell either…
1) no waves exceeding 1.5 m waveheight
2) the whole idea that the Authorities can, will, are called to, OBJECT something that is outside their strict and most narrow definition of their function is kind of “strange” almost everywhere in the world except where overregulation and nanny state is implemented in its highest bloom.
In a country like Colombia, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Mexico , Brasil, wild settlements grow in remote areas every day based on fishermen outpost, cattle outposts, gold digging and mining outposts, etc.. People come in with tents – later put roofs and walls on the tents and stay – some day the thing has a name and is a “village” this is a ongoing process there must be thousands in development in south america right now.
The setllement RINCON where Arenaqua is was no place on the map just a few years ago. So the idea of a bunch of people settling in a ranch area is nothing anybody (except the land owner) would interfer with or care about. Being on a seastead anchored a couple of meters offshore you would not infringe any existing law.
The marine authority splits in 2 branches
one is handling ships and asociated business like harbor, access channels, captain licences, etc… – it is obvious that this part would not have any interest in something that is obviously not a ship and develops far from harbor activity.
The other is litorales – which regulates the beachzone (30m sand from the waterline). They regulate shipyards (who long term rent the beach from them) . The building of breakwaters and other structures that change beach and marine currents. They do not care about anything that floats and does not even touch the beach.
A seastead neither being a ship nor a building changing the beach – would situate exactly outside the jurisdiction of both branches.
This legal vaccuum would get you interference free trough the first 10 years at least – after 5 years you have a constitutional “home right” – if you are the only development focus in the zone nobody will have a chance nor a interest to interfer with you.
The right of not being driven out of your home, the right to work , is the strongest protected in most countries once you live there, work, and prosper in that zone the stead would be untouchable similar to any other city – no matter if it floats or sits on dry land what is protected is not the real estate but the rights of its inhabitants.
Especially in a country like colombia where armed conflicts and driving out people from small rural settlements and interest zones has a history – that kind of rights is extremly protected now.
WilOctober 31, 2011 at 6:26 am #16070
since it’s a bit unclear to me what you are actually proposing. Buy the ranch or just rent beach property (from that ranch’s property) where we can build seasteads and also rent the “floating rights” of that waterfront? If we are buying and running the ranch in order to turn a profit and in order to build seasteads, aren’t we spending a lot of money in non-seasteading related ventures? If we are just buying a parcel on the beach and the “floating rights” in order to build seasteads, than how we are going to make money to build seasteads?
It’s a bit of a catch-22…
We have to be very carefull how expensive of a land and how lucrative of a business we are getting in. When taking about the outpost concept, if it’s getting to expensive to buy land and operate, at a certain point it will become more feasible to just spend the money to build seasteads and forget about the whole outpost thing altogether.October 31, 2011 at 2:05 pm #16071
ellmer – http://yook3.comParticipant
what i am proposing is just a method to find a spot where a activity like creating a seasteading outpost as suggested by Pastor Jason in the Seasteading Outpost Belize thread could be developed sucessfully.
I am proposing a method to find the spot – not a specific spot, not a property not a country. I try to explain how things work in Colombia where i live and which is the country that for historic reasons owns most of the caribbean sea and coastline out of the hurricane zone.
I propose that we asign seasteading viability zones on a scale 1-10 being 1 a zone where you can do nothing on the waterfront without getting entangled with several interference factors and 10 a freedom zone where you have a de facto freedom compareable to EEZ but just off shore.
I postulate that caribbean ranch zones give a 9.5 of freedom for a seastead just a few meters off shore – and i argumented why that is so.
I agree that buying land and get involed in ranch business might be a too indirect approach – so i would suggest just to seek a symbiotic relation renting floating rights on a ranch seafront for the more fragile building phase until the stead is sturdy enough to float out to the more open water.
But the question if we stay in part land based like VENICE and ceate a seastead building facility to float out single family steads is also on the table – a geographic point like a seasteading mekka where all seasteading oriented activity is concentrated has its merit and could be “half land based” to enable the transition.
Most of all i suggest that we get funding as the reality is that all we plan to do needs budget frames – as i understand the discussion so far we could not make it to a 5000 USD/month budget frame … so i think we are not even mounted to begin scouting for a place…
My experience is that if you build something in colombia in a 2 worker / some basic tools – a shadow roof – set up – that cranks out 1 ton of construction per day – a budget frame of 166 USD/day (5000/month) is kind of a minimum set up.
Imagine a start up like the imagine below – a couple of sparse connected floating concrete elements with people on it engaged in construcction of more floating elements aquaculture and similar activities. In a hurricane free bay in the caribbean in a 9.5 freedom zone on a > than 5000/month budget.
We do not need a exact business plan how big each concrete float element has to be and which purpose each boat serves. Some of the elements will later be part of the seastead – some sold to the industrial zone as floating docks…people will live in houseboats, in tents on the elements…camp on the beach…
make it touristic like quicksilver
make it industrial ship repair like the valliant jetti
make it aquaculture
Everything goes – just need to start to float out something…. on the long term it will develop along the following axes…
The catamaran float / The plate float out / The real estate squaremeter deal / The Captain Nemo float out / The bubble hotel / The current turbine / Breakwater lagoon marina / Oceanic port city design /
wilNovember 1, 2011 at 7:11 am #16096
After looking at the region via Google Earth satellite images, it looks like locating as close as possible to your current location would be best for eco tourism. How close to San Bernardo Archipelago would it be possible to arrange a deal with a ranch like you described while maintaining the non-interference benefits?November 1, 2011 at 3:33 pm #16100
They are like Lego’s for big kids.
CNovember 1, 2011 at 6:35 pm #16107
If this is really how it is, why haven’t you or others done this? I mean you’d already be able to have a small seastead. I could afford one at those prices, easily. Most americans could. I mean if that’s you’re bussiness plan you could easily get a 200K loan from a bank if you can write it out and articulate it. That’s huge profit and returns.
‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -UnknownNovember 1, 2011 at 7:34 pm #16110
I got a solution! Every seasteader buy one lotto ticket every week, if one of us wins we start seasteading as a group.November 1, 2011 at 7:35 pm #16109
I don’t have that kind of cash money and my credit it shut, courtesy to the “health care” system and the banks. 5-6 years ago I sustained major injuries while rescuing the crew of sinking sailboat of the coast of North Carolina in a strong gale. Ironically, while the rescue was successful, a $350k medical bill got all my life savings and bankrupted me. I will never, ever, EVER work with this fucking banks again man. Sry for the rant,…
Thats just me, I don’t know about others. The MMK (Man Made Key Project), my project, located in the Florida Keys around Key West, was “on the table” here at TSI for a while, open for anybody to look into and join if they wanted. For now, I am involved in a non-seasteading business and trying to make that work and the MMK Project is on hold. But, the way this business of mine goes, it looks like the MMK will be coming back on my agenda very soon
I would personally prefer to see a community-partnership of seasteaders formed first rather then a seasteading business first. Such community will have a much bigger financial power to build and operate any seasteading project they choose to, being the MMK, the SOBIZ, or a ranch-SO venture in Columbia, or any combination of those.
In fact, to me, it is the only logical solution to start any seasteading project for now, at the level we are talking about. (SOBIZ, MMK, Columbia, etc) since it is clear by now that a single investor with $ millions in cash is nowhere in sight for such projects.November 1, 2011 at 11:07 pm #16113
A real world business plan is put together so we can attrach a person or persons who is lossing alot of money in the world markets. Anyone have one?November 1, 2011 at 11:22 pm #16114
What is the best way to get the houseboats to Columbia or Belize? Can they be towed from Texas or Florida across the Gulf, dodging weather along the way?November 1, 2011 at 11:24 pm #16093
Is that 1 ton (2000 pounds) of displacement or weight of concrete processed per day? I see in your post, http://imulead.com/tolimared/concretesubmarine/anuncios/aq/#a93 , you also give a figure of $166/square meter, about $16/square foot, so it looks like you are saying you can produce 10 square feet per day, or 300 square feet per month. I’m looking at comparing the cost of bringing used houseboats to the site for immediate rentals versus building on site using your method right from the start. Do you know what it would cost per unit to build floating bungalows to rent. The native construction with the thatched roofs could actually add to the charm of a rustic eco tourism experience provided it is kept free of vermin like insects, snakes, and rats. One advantage of floating out in the water instead of being on land is it should be easier to keep the settlement pest free, anchoring out beyond the range of flying insects, especially mosquitos. For the long term, we would want to use your construction, I’m looking at the short term, used house boats vs. catamaran bungalows for immediate rentals for cash flow over the first year while the fish grow to harvest size.
I’m thinking of catamaran bungalows aligned in parallel along one axis with floating walkways aligned in parallel along the other axis to form a grid with open squares for the aquaculture pens, like your bottom picture above.
Shipping containers mounted on a pair of cements floats are another option for the housing modules.
I have a pair of walk-in freezers in storage, currently disassembled, an 8’x12′ and a 12’x20′, both 8′ high interior space, which can be used for refrigerated storage. They are black painted galvanized steel clad polyurethane foam core, made of 4’x8′ wall panels and 4’x12′ ceiling panels.November 2, 2011 at 12:37 am #16115
on deck of a freighter. I think towing will be out of the question since crossing the Gulf Stream and transiting the Yucatan Strait under tow will be a long, risky trip. But don’t they have used houseboats for sale in Colombia or Belize? If so, they shuld be much cheaper than the ones in US. I’ll look into it.November 2, 2011 at 12:41 am #16118
It’s worth a try. I would be surprised if there are many around. From what I’ve heard there isn’t much of a middle class in central and south america which would have bought them to have for sale now, but it’s worth a try.November 2, 2011 at 3:18 am #16105
Admiral Doty wrote: “….. I’m looking at the short term, used house boats vs. catamaran bungalows for immediate rentals for cash flow over the first year while the fish grow to harvest size.”
Used houseboats are the best choice for immediate profit making, in terms of a low initial capital investment and ROI. There is no way in hell that anybody building from scratch can match houseboat prices in this market.
And this is only on Yachtworld. On Craigslist they are giving them away for under $10k. Bottom line, for around $15k you can buy a decent, used 35′ LOA houseboat with all systems onboard in good running condition.
Considering those prices, this can be build for $150K, ready to roll, water toys included: http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x422/oceanopolis/MMK/
Anchored around a reef somewhere it will gross @ least $800/day by renting the 4 houseboats for $200/night. Minus overhead, will net @ least $150k/year which is an annual 100% ROI.
If anybody can duplicate the same accomodations for the same price, or if anybody knows of a venture, company, project, deal, etc with an annual 100% ROI, please let me know so I can buy into it.
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