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Seasteading in the news…plus a rant

Home Forums Community General Chat Seasteading in the news…plus a rant

This topic contains 11 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of xns xns 2 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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  • #1579
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    Looks like our sugardaddy is in the news today:

    The Billionaire King of Techtopia

    Also another little write-up:

    Silicon Valley billionaire funding creation of artificial libertarian islands

    The Yahoo news one of course gets it all wrong, but with Ron Paul nearly winning the Straw Poll in Iowa you will probably see “libertarian” in the news a lot more in the coming months which might perk up interest in seasteading.

    One comment though, and I hope this doesn’t come off as too harsh. There is nothing in this great universe that gets me more aggravated than incredibly wealthy people complaining about the state of the world. From the Details article, it says that “Thiel is unimpressed by how far we’ve come—technologically, politically, socially, financially, the works.” and that he says “…our cars aren’t moving any faster…”

    Well you know what: Do something about that! And I don’t mean drop $1.5M over 3 years on a not-for-profit organization that is trying to talk the world into seasteading. I mean drop $500M and BUILD SOMETHING!!!

    You have people like ellmer who’s scrambling to build concrete submarines and playing with concrete modules in the jungles of South America. You have people like oceanopolis trying to get floating modules working in Florida. You even have people like shredder7753 spending all day making pretty pictures in SketchUp. These people are investing all that they can into the seasteading vision. If he believes so strongly in it, why doesn’t he?

    Now some people will say, “hey he’s given $1.5M to TSI and you’re not even a member so who are you to talk.” The man is worth $1.5 BILLION DOLLARS!!!! Do you know what I could do with $1.5 BILLION DOLLARS!!! I would have teams of lawyers scouring the world for legal resources on seasteading, not two guys throwing out a “seasteading is hard” PDF and then moving on to some crazy IT-on-the-waves scheme. I would have TEAMS of naval engineers working round-the-clock building models and wave tank testing and doing autoCAD design. I would have weather and sea-state buoys already planted at several possible seastead locations to start generating metaocean data. I would have underwater survey teams scouting those areas to test seabed status and possible mooring systems.

    You have NO RIGHT to complain about the state of affairs. You think cars don’t go fast enough? I feel the same way. But while you can go purchase a “$500,000 McLaren supercar” according to Details I have to sit in my beat-up 11-year-old Ford Taurus and daydream about owning something without a hole in the muffler.

    Again, maybe I’m being a bit harsh. But what hope do people like me have of changing the world, when BILLIONAIRES are complaining about the state of the world and their inability to improve it?

    #14679
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    thats deep…

    smith, dont get hung up on what Theil is doing or what the Institute is up to. you know it in your heart and in ur mind – seasteading has massive potential. and u’ve seen my demonstration that a trillion human lives could be supported on the oceans of this planet. the Institute is as crucial to seasteading as the internet is to driving (its really not). there will be a zillion independent entities making it happen. think outside the box (i know thats hard for us dudes), and create something useful that can win peoples interest and their money. u can do it man – u just need a dream. one day u can have employees and a shop, and all kinds of stuff. the heat is on, just get there.

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #14688
    Avatar of Shouri
    Shouri
    Participant

    I agree with their(and probably mine) seasteading is hard mindset, and i totaly think it on waves is the one of the best answer for seasteading instead of thinking it’s crazy but i have to agree with you on the rest of your critique. I’d immediately start building if ii was him. I’ll start building when i have enough cash in some corner that can sustain my life if i fail on seasteading as insurance, while there are some who wouldn’t expect an insurance, while i can understand them, i can’t seem to get what Peter Thiel is thinking.

    #14698
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    We can expect a flood of new born again seasteaders to breac the dikes of internet complacency and join ou here, here on the TSI web page. Brace yourselves!!!

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    Shouri wrote:
    i can’t seem to get what Peter Thiel is thinking.

    He is thinking about what can get him a return on his investment. He is a venture capitalist, plain and simple. He puts a few hundred thousand dollars here, a few million there, on the hopes that one of those “shots in the dark” will be the next Facebook or PayPal and return hundreds of millions in profits.

    Listen, I am all for making money. I have no problem with the man making investments and expecting a return on that investment. He seems like a nice guy, and if had as much money as he does I would be throwing massive parties at my house all the time as well, pehaps without the guys in assless chaps.

    But it really grinds my gears to hear someone who has more money than the entire GDP of several countries complain about the state of affairs and the “default track” the world is on. I would love to change the world…but it’s all I can do to feed my family, pay the mortgage on my house, and hope every day that my company doesn’t fold and leave me jobless and without health insurance. To hear someone who is that incredibly wealthy complain about how unimpressed he is with how far we’ve come, and bemoan the current state of affairs, is truly depressing.

    I know that if I won the lottery tomorrow and had a few million dollars I would change the world. And he has a few HUNDRED million. But I guess, since his interest in seasteading is only “theoretical” then I shouldn’t judge him too harshly. But don’t complain about things then, especially if you have the means to change them.

    #14714
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:
    the Institute is as crucial to seasteading as the internet is to driving (its really not).

    I’ve been working on seasteading since I read “The Millennial Project” back in 1996 and began following the Living Universe Foundation. I have always fostered a strong belief that for humanity to survive and evolve we must first colonize the sea and use that as a springboard to the stars. The resources I have available to me to pursue that belief are pretty minimal.

    I had hoped, when I started following TSI, that it would be a fabulous resource for investigating those technical, legal, and political challenges that hold seasteading back. How can we obtain full sovereignity on the high seas? How do we get high-speed internet access 250nm from shore? How will we grow our food without large tracks of land available? What are the wave tank results for certain types of large marine structures? What kind of materials should we build with? I had expected them to pursue these and other issues…things that an institute funded with nearly $2M could look into that a simple guy with a family and full-time job earning five figures didn’t have the time or resources to.

    Instead I have learned nothing that I already didn’t know in doing my own research, and I find that pretty depressing. Remember this back from March: “We’re in..low level talks with several small countries about having them pass seastead-friendly regulations”. Uh, anything about that? This was the kind of thing that I couldn’t dream of doing with my level of funding ($0) and free time (-0) but would expect TSI to pursue in an effort to advance seasteading initiatives by providing information to those of us interested in seasteading.

    So I expect TSI to be very crucial to advancing seasteading by researching topics vital for seasteading to continue. I’d just like to see more of this. I hoping the next legal paper has a lot more concrete data, and I’m hoping they found a GIS specialist and are already building a database of metaocean information.

    #14778
    Avatar of Winkerson
    Winkerson
    Participant

    Hey, I was just going to point something out. You mentioned Ellmer and people really helping with seasteading unlike the richie rich types who throw a chunk of change at it. Well… Ellmer’s the kind of dude who ends up being richie rich. I don’t know much of anything about this Thiel fellow, but I’d imagine he, or his father or grandfather if he’s old money, did something new. That’s how you get rich, you come up with something new – be it technology or ideas or methods or marketing strategies, whatever – and sell it. The more revolutionary your new product is the more money you can potentially make, whereas the less revolutionary it is the more likely it is to actually sell, the more likely you are to reach the idea’s earning potential.

    The problem is that for every ten geniuses and revolutionaries with some fantastic new product or tactic or strategy, society’s only ready for one of them or even one out of a hundred truly great ideas. There are plenty of them that come up and are truly brilliant, it’s just not the right time for them to be accepted, society isn’t in the right place at that moment in time. But yeah, Ellmer’s the kind of dude who has, unlike the rest of us, infinitely better than lottery odds of ending up a multi millionaire or billionaire. I don’t imagine the Thiel dude would think Ellmer is one of the people in society disappointing him. What he’s saying, basically (or at least the origin of this type of thinking) is that our world is NOT a zero sum game, our economy is not. If every person pushed their brain to the absolute limit, there’s a good chance we could ALL be doing revolutionary new designs and ideas. The robotics are already there to take over the manual labor, and even a ‘dumb’ person’s brain, pushed to its limit, is worth more in ideas than the cost of the robot to replace him at his old job. What I imagine he’s saying he’s dissapointed in is all the people saying, “Gah, if I had that muchmoney I’d be doing so much!” who haven’t ever gone out and actually tried dumping a decade of their full life and attention into actually getting that money so they can change the world. Most of the ‘startup’ type of guys, the new money, that’s why they got rich, they were pissed at the world and they wanted the leverage to change it – some of them might have been pissed off about things you think are great, but everybody’s got their own opinions and motivations. What he’s probably dissapointed in is that we didn’t all do that. Because there’s plenty of room; there’s no ceiling, no maximum amount of money, everything we produce has real economic value, and most of our products these days are ideas, meaning the primary resource – our greatest source of wealth – is raw human brainpower. Each of us is endowed with around the same ammount really, it’s just how well you use it, how much pain and anguish and doubt and hardship you’re willing to take to whip your brain and yoru potential up to its highest level.

    Because, think about it. Again, I don’t know anything about this guy, but how many charities is he involved in? I’d bet a lot. I’d bet a significant portion of his wealth, basically what the old money sorts would dump into endless luxuries, big bank accounts, whatever. Yeah, he’s probably got some nice stuff – he’s filthy rich, he probably worked hard as hell to get that or maintain it, he probably deserves the vacation homes and yachts and what have you, it’s the perks of pushing yourself to the top, thinking for a society too lazy to do it on its own. It’s what people like that get payed by everyone else for the order and structure and gadgets and technologies that those people come up with that make our lives so much easier. But I’d guarantee you he’s probably also giving to a lot of other charities, and it he’s worth 1.5B then that 1.5M probably isn’t even a majority of his contributions. You can’t really expect people to just get to a certain point and spend everything they have on your cause; for all you know he’s got some larger cause that’s gonna cost 100B to get done, and he’s got the right to protect his genes by leaving his family with some cash too – you’ve can’t really argue against evolution. You can’t erally expect him to dump even ten percent of what he’s worth into any one thing, bankrupt or seriously hurt his company (because you know, pretty much all of that is probably tied up in his business’ infrastructure, holdings, facilities, etc) just on the hope that it would kick off seasteading and be worth more than whatever problem it is with society, whatever thing that nagged him so much that he worked his way to where he is. Because, despite what everyone says, it’s not easy. Again, maybe if he’s old money and he inherited billions from his father it’s different, but getting there? It’s a bitch. You’ve got to do everything you’ve got to do with manual labor – working and working until you feel like you’re going to pass out or die, doing twelve hour shifts if you really want to get ahead – and then on top of that you’ve got to work and abuse your brain in the same way, because that’s how you get smart, quick, accomplished, you work your brain like it was a bicep, you push it to failure every day because otherwise there are a thousand other entrepreneurs who are willing to do that, are willing to give up whole decades of life to the crushing spirit sucking uphill grind without ever faltering, ever taking a break.

    I guess I’m just saying…don’t hate. There are some rich folks who seem like real assholes but I’ll tell you – they almost certainly were driven to that wealth and to whatever behavior you think is horrible by the same sort of passion you have for seasteading, or space colonization or computer technology or whatever your drive is. Because it doesn’t just happen, not for hardly anyone, and it’s not easy or we’d all be there. Maybe a lot of ‘em sold their souls, but they did it for something they believed in. The chances are you’ve got some idea rolling around in yoru head right now, some unique combination of facts and figures and mechanics you could slap together and make a billion dollars off of. The only thing is that slapping it together is the easy part – the idea, we’re freaking fantastic logic gapping organic computers, it’s just what we do. It’s outthinking the rest, outcompeting, clawing your way up to that level of success… that’s the hard part, unless you just win the lottery or inherit a billion dollars or something like that. I maen, that could be the deal with this thiel guy but still I’d bet he does a lot more charity than just ssf, and you can’t expect him to come to the same conclusions as you about what’s going to have the greatest impact. I mean, I agree with you, seasteading seems genius to me and if I had a couple mil I’d probably be down in Columbia talking to Ellmer about hooking me up with a floating manse, the platform for a good ten or fifteen meg cold water/ammonia powerplant, some bulk floats for net farms and maybe a couple of standardized floating apartment buildings to hook up my own little community in international waters, then seeing who on here wanted to really give seasteading a try. Hell, I’m even seriously tempted to make a grab for that kind of money now that I see something realistically doable that would be worth all the pain of attaining it, but I don’t now and I don’t expect someone else to just go out on a limb either, to each their own passiona nd all.

    #15047
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:
    Again, maybe I’m being a bit harsh. But what hope do people like me have of changing the world, when BILLIONAIRES are complaining about the state of the world and their inability to improve it?

    I know how you feel, but consider a few things:

    One, Thiel owes us nothing. He has donated some of his money because he wants to, not because he has to.

    Two, something this big requires time and a community that is devoted to its goals. Sure, Thiel could spend his money and build a huge yacht and hire a crew to run it … but what would he really have? Just a traditional yacht, a crew that was motivated mostly by money, and no cash to build a real city. We’ve been discussing things here for a couple years, and we have yet to agree on the best course of action – but there is universal agreement that the early concept of an oil rig type of platform would be a bad idea. Where would we be if Thiel had blown all his money on Clubstead? All we’d have would be “proof” that seasteading would never work – and no chance of getting funding for something better.

    Three, something this innovative requires public relations and legal research. That can’t be purchased on the spot. It has to be grown.

    I understand your frustrations, but so far Thiel has shown pretty good judgment – and if his investments in other areas continue to grow, he will have more money to devote to seasteading if he sees that it is going well.

    #15051
    Avatar of xns
    xns
    Participant

    Haha, you think people get rich by sacrificing existing assets and spending everything they have on crazy projects? I must inform you that that isn’t true… and the man has every right to be disappointed with what we’ve achieved. I sure am. Though I suppose you did point out this was a rant, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #15112
    Avatar of kgilliland1980
    kgilliland1980
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    You have NO RIGHT to complain about the state of affairs. You think cars don’t go fast enough? I feel the same way. But while you can go purchase a “$500,000 McLaren supercar” according to Details I have to sit in my beat-up 11-year-old Ford Taurus and daydream about owning something without a hole in the muffler.

    HA! Amen to THAT!!!

    #15117
    Avatar of Joep
    Joep
    Participant

    Whatever you all think, there would be no TSI without Peter Thiel. There are plenty of billionaires out there and Peter is the only one giving away money to us (and to a lot of other great projects btw). Maybe it’s a clever strategy, but for now I think he is giving away his own money for a cause he apparently believes in. Other rich people might be nice enough to give money away on malaria or whatever but it’s only Peter spending money on Seasteading. He’s openly supporting a fringe project because apparently he believes in it. That might even be worth more than the money he already has given to us. I know no other really rich guy who’s brave enough to do something like that.

    We’re obviously not to decide what he should do with his money, and we should be extremely thankful for his sponsoring. I do hope he’ll invest in some Seasteading (related) project, but I hope even more that such a project would attract any investor who just wants a nice yearly return on his investment.

    #15122
    Avatar of xns
    xns
    Participant

    To be fair Jim Von Ehr donated several hundred thousand to the project as well. And he’s gone and built some sort of superboat in the process.

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

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