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This topic contains 35 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of tusavision tusavision 4 years ago.

Viewing 6 posts - 31 through 36 (of 36 total)
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    I have just read through this thread and I have seen talk of contracts and “millions in gold” (under the mattress), what sort of business do you think you will be doing on your seastead.

    I would think that “normal” business deals will be difficult to arrange with the client unwilling to come to you, prefering to deal with someone more conveniently located.

    We may get a few tourists looking for a souvenir of their trip, and should be happy to accept whatever currency they’ve brought.

    I would think many seasteaders would be looking for freedom, both from government and the rat race.

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    Depends on how you look at it, to me, the fluctuations are a reflection of the instability of paper currencies, since gold is the only real money. That 1000 point drop in the Dow is an indicator of the instability of the markets. Public confidence in the markets and unbacked currencies is a chaotic phenomenon, which can radically change in a very short time. With electronic markets, the internet, and 24 hour trading, the global currency collapse will happen in hours, not days or weeks, since the only thing backing those currencies is people’s faith in them (FIAT = Faith in it Again Tomorrow) and the promise to pay the government debt with yet more paper with nothing to back it. When that collective faith will be lost is as unpredictable as an earthquake, could happen tonight, next week, next month, next year, or several years off, but when it happens it will hapen fast.

    from oceanopolis:

    Then your currency value will fluctuate in accordance to the price of gold. It will be subjected (as a commodity) to supply, demand, speculations. As per todays market, gold closed at USD 912.13/oz. If you would decide to print your gold currency today, you will have to buy @ the market price, which is at an all time historical high, but in a downtrend. If the global economy starts to improve, then the price of gold will drop, since the investers will move their money from gold to stocks and bonds. Therefore, your currency will devaluate and you will be losing money since you’ve bougt the gold in USD to start with. Taking a look at 36 year gold chart bellow I wouldnt go long on gold right now. Actually, I’d short it

    Profile photo of elspru

    Carl wrote:

    So seasteads should create their own currencies, in spite of the fact that there already exists hundreds or thousands of ready to use types of coins, commodities, currencies, money, and various methods of payments?

    What a complete waste of time and resources.

    How about air, for breathing? Should seasteads produce their own “national air” as well?

    yes actually seasteads should produce their own national air.

    by contributing to their algae farms, we of course must take ourselves into account with nature.

    keeping a record of resources we’ve taken from planet, and record of what we’ve contributed.

    I mean sure, air is already available everywhere, at zero cost, but wouldn’t it be nice with bottled air of the seastead brand?

    we would need to ban the breathing of “foreign air”, to up the demand for our “national air”.

    well what if the foreign air in question is toxic to humans?

    though certainly labeling would be sufficient,

    entity being able to judge for themselves,

    if it is suitable to their purposes.

    with a space colony, or underwater colony,

    even having scuba gear, implies air has value.

    Sarcasm aside, if a seastead requires that visitors apply for visas or similar types of bureaucracy and demand that they only use a particular type of money, then guess what? I’m not going to visit that seastead.

    so you’re gonna let any random passerbyer onto into your house,

    to waltz around and do as they please, without any records of them?

    sounds like someone is naively trustful of the public at large.

    Anyhow so my proposal is Price Calculated Barter

    ((mass+time)^chakra/abundance)*utility = price

    for things like metals, abundance is the percent abundance of all elements,

    so for one gram of gold:

    abundance of gold is 4*10^-9


    chakra density of gold is 3 since it’s refined or created by choosing entities

    so plugging it into the equation

    (10^3) / (4 * (10^-9)) = 2.5E11

    to convert that to a base currency of food

    where chakra density of grain is 2.3

    (food^2.3 = 2.5E11

    root(2.5 * (10^11), 2.3) = approx. 90287.18

    so 10 grams of gold is worth about 90.3kg of food.

    10 grams of aluminum about 60 grams of grain

    root(2.5 * (10^11), 2.3) = approx. 90287.18

    root(12150.668, 2.3) = approx. 59.691585

    10 grams of iron about 70 grams of grain

    (10^3) / (5.63 * (10^-2)) = approx. 17761.989

    root(17761, 2.3) = approx. 70.403545

    10 grams of copper about 1380 grams of grain

    (10^3) / (6 * (10^-5)) = approx. 16666667

    root(16666667, 2.3) = approx. 1380.1753

    this is based on abundance in the earths crust,

    much of that aluminum and iron is locked up in oxides,

    ideally it would be based on the abundance in the market.

    for a service, a chakra level and grams per hour can be agreed.

    for instance someone that does a patrol, can be chakra level 3.1

    and might pay them 30 grams an hour,

    and they 40 hours a week.

    (30 * 40)^3.1 = approx. 3.5112509E9
    root((30 * 40)^3.1, 2.3) = approx. 14131.908

    so that’s about 14kg of grain that week.

    7kg a week is more than enough to feed a person.

    the billing period would also have to be established,

    due to the nature of exponents, the more hours, the more pay per hour.

    for instance if paid daily working 8 hours a day

    root((30 * 8)^3.1, 2.3) = approx. 1614.7705

    get 1.6 kg a day (rather than 2kg per day if billing by the week).

    anyhow with price-calculated barter people can trade a wide variety of materials and services.

    and calculate the price of new items and services with precision.

    The currency is called Dinje.

    there is Money Dinje, and Debt Dinje.

    Where if you provide a good or service you get Money Dinje.

    And the person that gave it keeps a record which is the Debt Dinje.

    So any money dinje certificate will say where it was gotten,

    so as to know how it can be redeemed.

    The issuer can be a person, a tribe, or larger group of people.

    At some rate of exchange a persons money dinje can be exchanged

    for a tribe’s or larger group, making it more valuable to foreigners.

    For instance a person gives you some personal money dinje,

    you go to their tribe bank and exchange for tribal money dinje.

    the tribe can redeem relatively quickly the money dinje of an active memeber,

    wheras it will be able to redeem debt even if membership changes at a future date.

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    I would set up an account for the Seastead at a Swiss bank along with members of community having accounts there too. On board the seastead everyone could use debit cards for purchasing goods on board and they would have no problems purchasing goods off the seastead. It would cut down on storage space and weight not to have all that gold onboard the settlement. Having the gold there creats a whole bunch of problems like theft, arguements about current gold prices, and not to mention people trying to attack a seastead because they heard the community members have gold.

    Durring the dark ages the vikings prefered to use silver rather than gold. The vikings were very practicle they knew a lump of gold could buy you land or a cow but what if they needed to buy just one loaf of bread. Do they hand over the lump of gold and expect the baker to provide him with change. There were stopping points along the European coast who exhanged viking stolen goods for silver so the viking could handle their weekly expences better more efficiently. If you are on the Seastead and want to buy a soda and a magazine do you expect the store clerk to there and figure out how much of the gold he has to give you back in exchange? There is computer software that can allow you to keep track of funds already in use why switch to hard currency. If you need to have money in hand I am sure there are companies out there that will make tokens like they used in arcades.

    Profile photo of chadsims

    I’d suggest that a barter type deal be set up for the community, trade goods and services to each other, and gold and silver be used for land transsactions.

    Or if the group is small enough, just help each other out when needed. Put all the gold and silver into a group account, some sort of secured facility. (Lock box)

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    Profile photo of tusavision
    chadsims wrote:

    I’d suggest that a barter type deal be set up for the community, trade goods and services to each other, and gold and silver be used for land transsactions.

    Or if the group is small enough, just help each other out when needed. Put all the gold and silver into a group account, some sort of secured facility. (Lock box)

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    Tungsten and lead are two materials which are both impossible to counterfeit. They are the least valuable materials of their density making it easy to verify their authenticity.

    Fishing weights are impractical as currency due to their low value/weight relationship.

    For the same reason, they make acceptable small denominations.

    Tungsten Carbide cutting inserts for machine tools on the other hand are very valuable, impossible to counterfeit, and could be easily traded “live” based on their “live” market price being available for any currency in existence.

    There would be some danger of counterfeiting based on the spread between the price/gram of tungsten vs. the market price of inserts, but this is easily fixed by using used inserts which are of no use to anyone beyond their value as a commodity and therefore the quality of sintering is irrelevant.

    Making this the currency standard would encourage economic growth based on “value added” production of goods. The unit of exchange would have a higher value on the seastead than the recycling infrastructure price on-shore.

    This would mean that a benefit of operating a machine shop on the seastead would be the recycling infrastructure would pay better off-shore. Employees could be paid in used inserts making the cost of labor almost free.

    New inserts would have a premium value because of the “here now” price of the logistics of having new tooling delivered to the seastead. This premium would be comparable to numismatics value of collectible coins.

    Eventually, someone would make the investment and begin recycling them off-shore as an additional benefit of seasteading: pollution.

    Demand would be at a premium, the value would be higher based on location, and a cottage industry of arbitrage would exist where money could be made on the difference in value between new & used carbide.

    The best perk lies in that the issue of expansion of capital solves itself. The market price of carbide is inherently below the cost of goods(concessions for alternative manufacturing processes). As the economy expands, the production of used carbide increases to meet the demands of the growing economy. As the demand for capital increases, the arbitrage of carbide logistics supports this demand by increasing carbide imports. It would be a market controlled currency with the upside potential of eventual exports of new carbide vs. imports of used carbide.

    This would fix the “national debt”/”trade deficit” at a very good ratio inspiring a strong currency-> strong wages-> strong economic growth.

    GDP vs Imports would have EXTREME pressure to stay deficit free.

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