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sailing a platform

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of spark spark 1 year, 8 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #21649
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Hi;

    I would like to write down a few of my observation about sailing.

    One is, when I get back to the dock with the sail boat, I already put the sail away.

    The mainsail is tied, and the jib is folded.  I use and outboard engine to get to the dock.

    But before I get in the dock I turn the engine off, and I coast. This works fine, I learned how to.

    Often, when I coast without engine and without sail, there is wind.  The wind still effects the

    boat.  It kind of feels like I can still sail the boat.  And so I think that, it is also logically possible:

    to sail the boat without any sail, so the wind just effects the body of the boat.  The part that is

    out of the water.  The rest of the boat that is in the water makes it possible to steer the boat.

    The rudder helps too.

    Another thing was interesting for me, the trimming of the mainsail, and the use of a storm jib.

    These are all techniques to decrease the effect of the wind when the wind is strong.

    And probably a strong wind still pushes the sailboat when all sails are down.  I have not tried

    this yet, except during docking.  During docking the wind is usually weak.

    .

    Well, anyways, my idea would be to build a platform, that would be like a sailboat under the

    water line, and to build a solid superstructure  on the top of the platform for the wind.

    That way, and with a rudder, the platform could sail, and the direction of the movement could be

    determined by the ‘skipper’.  The movement would not be fast, and may be a seasteading platform

    does not need to move fast.

    .

    One more thing came to my attention about the theories of sailing, that some people compare

    the sail to an airplane wing.  Airplanes can fly upside down also, with the same wing shape.

    The effect of airflow is not only due to the shape of the wing or sail, but also due to the turbulence

    around it.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Well; this is just an idea, and this is how I was able to write it down.

    Respectfully;

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #21658
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    WOW. Great post “skipper”. When u get back to the dock u already put the sail down,…??

     

    #21676
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    if you want solid superstructure on top can look at wingsails, which look like air-plane wings on boats sideways.

    #21677
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    ideally of course, you would not use an engine at all.

    it’s really a waste, if y

    #21678
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    if you can sail into dock, then save your fuel, and the environment.

    #21688
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Hi,

    Well, yes, the sailing.  My point is not the environment, and that point is OK too. I do care about the environment.

    I wanted to make a point, that these seasteading platforms will have to withstand storms.  In a storm, a boat

    can sail.  A boat needs to move in order to keep a favorable position compared to the waves, and the wind.

    Probably a full set of sails is not the choice in a storm.  And a platform does not need to move fast.

    I thought about an upper structure that resembles to a wing.  And it would be not too large to sail with it in a storm.

    And the platform can still drift using the wing structure during good weather.

     

    #21695
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Sparky,

    one of the best things for a storm, a more tried and tested version than having a wing shaped deck,

    is using a sea-anchor, which works best with a canoe-shaped stern, then can have bow face the waves.

    otherwise it’s rear-sea-anchor and running the risk of getting pooped if the waves crest too  high,

    then have to run with bear poles at diagonals to the waves to slow yourself.

     

    So if possible is always best to have canoe shaped stern, as bow anchor is just so easy.

    #21697
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    elspru;

     

    Yes, I am aware of the sea-anchor.  Thank you.  I will check out the canoe-shaped stern.

     

    #21698
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I think that few years ago I used the term “sailstead” to describe the sailable platform you are talking about, Sparky. It would be illogical NOT TO HAVE sails, on ANY type of seastead, in my oppinion. Wind is free. Also, my research on the matter of sailsteading shows 100% feasibility of using what I call a SOLAR-SAIL (semi-flexible PV panels conected and rigged as sails) in order to TOTALLY eliminate the use of fossil fuels for propulsion. 

    #21704
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Hi Oceanopolis;

     

    Yes, and thank you for your post. I agree with you about all that you wrote.  I like the term: sailstead.

    Sailing is important, and it is important to think about solar-electric generation, and the use of that energy for propulsion.

    The idea of semi-flexible PV panels as sails is very interesting.  I am not so against fossil fuels, but they are not available in the

    middle of the ocean.  Wind and sunshine are available in the middle of the ocean.

     

    I would like to write here a bit about safety of a sailstead or a seastead.  Storms do happen.  How to weather the storms?

    A sea anchor is a good idea.  Having multiple sea anchors is a better idea. If one is lost, the other one can be used.

    I understand in a storm, or in strong waves a vessel can roll and it can pitchwalt.  At the time of the roll and pitchwalt the

    superstructure of the vessel turns under water.  Rigging can be lost due to the resistance of the water.  Example: the

    mast can break during a roll.(The way I understand it. I can be wrong.

    When a vessel has multiple ways of propulsion loosing one is not so tragic.

    So superstructure resembling a wing shape, but a very short one, may be stronger to an impact like that.  Above it;

    there can be still a mast and sails.  And there can be still solar panels everywhere, and an electric engine.  And there

    still can be a gasoline and/or diesel engine.  Each of these propulsion methods can have it’s own way and time of use.

     

    Well this is the best way I could write my thought down here in English nautical terms, or something like that.

    English is not my native language.

     

    By the way I am very interested about using solar panels PV, and an electric engine on a motor boat, by keeping the

    main engine in perfectly working order, and a full tank until that is needed.  And just solar sail with PV electric.

    On a motor boat just placing the PVs horizontal.

     

    Sincerely yours;

    spark

     

     

    #21705
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Yeap, it’s all about dollars and sense.

    But fuel is available anywhere,….for a price. And in the middle of nowhere,…it will be very expensive. It is hard to judge “against” or “pro” oil. There is a lot of hypocricy out there when it comes to that subject. For example. I went to a meeting on the subject of greenhouse gases, environment, etc, few weeks ago. The parking lot was full of cars. Now, I don’t drive, and while everybody was so “well intended” and “green” there, when I asked the simple question, “How many people walk down here, or biked or use public transportation?” there was silence…It was like going to a AA meeting drunk. What’s the point? Regardless. Oil will be here for a loooooong time. At least few hundreds of years. But one day, like with anything else, it will be gone. Extinct. But all that is for landlubbers. Seasteads will tap into alternative energies from the very beginning, NOT because “it is cool to be green nowadays”, but out of pure necessity and convenience. And that’s a fact. No ways around it.

    Your english is pretty good, lol, don’t worry about it. I am an ESL too :) What is important is that you are here and participate. I belive that the first seasteads will be multinational and a clusterfuck linguistic nightmare :)

     

    #21706
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Hi Oceanopolis;

     

    One day fossil fuels will be gone, and one day I’ll be gone too.  And until then I am here.  And fossil fuels are here too.

    I guess the greenhouse gases conference people think, they too use the fossil fuels.

     

    I like solar and wind anyway.  I like the independence of it.  When sun shines electricity can be made.

    And I could be witting more clichés like that for a game.

     

    I think, what you wrote: sailstead,  is going on already.  Just nobody talks about them.  There are youtube videos.

    I like to watch those videos.

    I am just not there yet to sail out of the harbor. for good. I am working on it.

    Do you want to tell me how a sailsteader can make some money?

    Have you tried deepsea mining for gold or anything else? Legally or otherwise???

     

    #21707
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Hi Sparky.

     

    I didn’t say that sailsteading is going on already. It is actually not. It could be your english now,…(just joking man). If you are referring to cruising under sail, that’s a different story. And while cruising is fun and liberating, it is not seasteding because is missing the high degree of self-sufficiency and the political “autonomy” (read sovereignty if you wish) that somehow it is associated with the definition of a seastead. A sailboat will eventually have to come back to port. A seastead, should be able to stay out there indefinitely, in my oppinion.

     

    How a sailstead is gonna make money is no different than a seastead: fishing and aquaculture, tourism, alternative energy production at sea (hydrogen), oceanography and endangered marine ecosystems protection and restoration and all the other maritime related industries.

     

    Deepsea mining for gold? Nope. That will take a fortune to get into. And what if you don’t find any gold? That would be a real bummer man, after spending all that cash :) That money should be wiser spent on building a nice sailstead and sail into the sunset! IMHO.

    #21712
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    I did not say you did say either.

    And thank you for all the information, and your thought about all that.

    I feel similar. Not exactly the same.

     

    And may be that is important for a seastead: to include different opinions peacefully.

     

    Respectfully yours;

    spark

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