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Requirements – single family seastead?

Home Forums Archive Structure Designs Requirements – single family seastead?

This topic contains 22 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of xmaraner xmaraner 4 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)
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  • #1264
    Avatar of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Before we can work out a design, it would be helpful to know what the requirements are. For example, does it really have to remain still in waves, or can it, like a boat, be allowed to rise and fall? Letting it flow with the waves would certainly simplify things, as it puts less stress on the structure and removes the need for a large spar(s) extending down to the ocean floor (although some kind of anchor may be desirable).

    So, what should the requirmenets for an SFS be?

    #10255
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    I say that, but it’s not that easy. For one thing, you need storage, private space, equipment,… The more details, the more space you’ll find is desireable. My person view is that each person must have their own private space. There should be a fairly large galley, so several people can work and avoid each other. A large ‘family’ room, some outdoor space and a reasonable number of ‘heads.’ Do a compromise of American Victorian rooms and about double the storage normally dictated by Japanese tradition… Include those spaces necessary for your particular endeavor and their storage, as well.

    There are many discussions into the topic, based on many well thought-out ideas, here. Do the reading, make some basic decisions, do the research and put in your topic for discussion. Someone will have more input into it, even if it’s negative. Take what you get and work-up your model to what suits you…

    Welcome to the aquarium!

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    If you can’t swim with the big fish, stick to the reef

    #10276
    Avatar of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Well, it does appear (from browsing the Wiki, mainly) that the main factor driving the size and cost of Seasteads is a desire for the same stability found on land, whereas I’d relegate that to a desired feature instead – at least for a SFS.

    The design requirements for an SFS will be different to those for a large sea-city, with more emphasis on cost and less on minimizing wave induced motion. In descending order of importance, I’d put it:

    Safety

    Cost

    Size

    Wave induced motion

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10277
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    Terraformer wrote:

    So, what should the requirmenets for an SFS be?

    The key idea is that a structure engineered for a family to live on the open ocean could be better optimized for this goal than anything else. It should “beat a boat” in terms of space, stability, and cost.

    There are several different sub-catagories of SFS that have more specific requirements.

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Single_Family_Seastead

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Survivalist_market

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Self_sufficient_seastead

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Seastead

    #10284
    Avatar of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Sure, but it doesn’t need to remain stationary in the waves. If you’re willing to accept the penalty of needing a few days to get your sea legs, you simplify the structure massively. Same if you’re willing to drift around a patch of sea rather than remaining over one exact spot, you make it easier to work.

    As with all the ideas, safety is premium, followed by space and cost. This means it needs some stability, in order to not tip very, but only in the same way a boat does.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10294
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    In these economic times, its impossible to “beat a boat” in terms of cost. There is no way that a SFS can be built cheaper than a good used boat (power or sail).

    #10296
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    Cheaper, no… Better, yes… BUT, it all depends on what you plan to do, how you plan to do it and who is with you.

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    If you can’t swim with the big fish, stick to the reef

    #10303
    Avatar of Jeff-Chan
    Jeff-Chan
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    In these economic times, its impossible to “beat a boat” in terms of cost. There is no way that a SFS can be built cheaper than a good used boat (power or sail).

    Some of Vince’s designs, like the water walker, look like they could be much less expensive to build than a somewhat equivalent. boat.

    #10314
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    In these economic times, its impossible to “beat a boat” in terms of cost. There is no way that a SFS can be built cheaper than a good used boat (power or sail).

    Let me try to clarify what I mean by “beat a boat”. How about this:

    Some customers should feel a seastead “beats a boat” for their valuation of space, stability, safety, initial cost, operating cost, bragging rights, or whatever else. But really what it means is that in that customer’s subjective valuation it is somehow better than a boat.

    Now it may well be that used boats are so cheap right now that it is an extra hard time to start selling seasteads. I still think it can be done.

    – Vince

    #10315
    Avatar of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Yeah, once you remove the need to remain stationary in the waves and accept being thrown about a bit in a gale you can get the price down nice and low… I’d like stabilizers though, to avoid being sunk. Best design it probably some kind of truncated hemisphere shape, like (wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/User:Vincecate/GeodesicVessel), except with a) a large greenhouse in the middle, probably plastic sheeting to keep the waves off and a stronger cover for when the seas get rough, and b) some kind of structure around it that both helps keep it upright and fences off areas for aquaculture. I’ll get round to writing up my ideas, promise…

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10319
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Yes, a well bulit SFS will “beat a boat” by far in terms of the valuations you just described. I belive that too, and I totally agree. But it will be 15x more expensive if built for coastal or protected waters and 20x more expensive if built for offshore, ocean crossing. (then a similar LOA used boat, power or sail). But this is not the problem.

    The problem is that we dont have yet a DESIGN that is appealing to the masses. We have Clubstead from TSI, we have your WaterWalker, we have my Kite module and SailStead, we have xns hexagonal modular island, we have Ellmer 2010, and,…nothing else. Well, that Orbiter looks very promising too. And then we have the Poseidon Project which has no design yet.

    Another problem we have regarding SFSs is that there is no compehesive definition of:

    1. How big a SFS shud be, for, lets say a couple and 2 kids? Or it can be for 2-3 families? I would go with 60-100 ft LOA.
    2. Is it going to be built as a Baystead or Coastalstead SFS, or for offshore and ocean crossing? I would say OFFSHORE.
    3. Is it going to be modular so it can be rafted up w/ other SFSs or free standing design? I would say MODULAR
    4. Would the people buying a future SFS agree to be part of a “Union of SFS” so they can eventualy, one day, unite their SFS into a Seastead Nation? I would say YES.

    There is a solution. I firmly belive @ this point that all the design I have mentioned above, individualy, have good seasteading features that we shud mix and match and come up with a design for a SFS as a candidate for the Poseidon Project, given that all the 4 point mentioned above are agreed upon and are “integrated” in the final design.

    If agreed by TSI, than 8 of those SFS would be more than plenty to raft up as Poseidon. TSI can imediately build 2 of the SFS, crew them and test them. The rest of the 6 will follow shortly I think, since the interes generated by the first 2 will bring more money in.(or fractional ownership like they do with the houseboats on Lake Mead?).

    Then, more can be added.

    The not for profit TSI’ actual format might be in the way a bit in terms of conducting business for the first 2 (expected to be operated first in US waters? for a limited SHORT:-) time), but when all of them are completed they can be moved offshore as a whole where the not for profit status is irrelevant.

    My point here is simple. There is no point for a SFS if is not part of a bigger seasteading picture,…If me and my wife will live like hermits and still commute to work, if my kids have nobody to play or watch cartoons with on that big SFS, than whats the point of spending half a Mil. when I can do the same @ anchor on a 40 ft, $20k old wooden sloop…?

    #10320
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    OK, who decides which design? SeaOrbiter has been tested in scale, FLIP has been built and lived in, other ideas have been tested in scale… Some ideas have NEVER seen water, even as a demo of an idea for a scale model…

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    If you can’t swim with the big fish, stick to the reef

    #10321
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    My personal favorite next step is:

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/User:Vincecate/FloatingVilla

    But I have an idea similar to that but where each leg has a pontoon with a daggerboard and 2 electric motor on it attached to the leg in a flexible way. My CAD guy is back from school any day now and I will have him draw it up soon.

    Now imagine that my family is motoring around the Caribbean or Atlantic on a nice new solar powered seastead. I make some videos about how well it works and how comfortable and safe it is. A lot like DashewOffshore does for their boats on youtube. I contact a few press people and someone does an article about this interesting new way to travel. Now if it really is as fantastic as I think it will be, then somebody will say, “Hey, I want one of those. How much is it?”. And if it really is sort of reasonably priced, I will be able to sell it. With the money from the first sale I can make a next one. Probably I fix a few little problems the last one had and my family starts traveling around in the new one. Rinse, repeat.

    After there is a “Seastead Users Group” there will be some who decide to travel around the Atlantic, or some other route, together. This will be the first real seastead community.

    Dude, the market decides. There are actually lots of designs linked to in the last 2 sections of the SFS page and many more not written up or linked yet. I think there is far more realistic work going on in the SFS area than in the “Floating City” area. Hard to really say who the market is going to pick at this point but I think it is a safe bet some SFS type thing gets commercial success before any floating city size thing even gets built. So if TSI is still trying to raise $200 mil to build some huge thing when I have steady sales and a community of SFS users traveling together, I win. :-)

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Single_Family_Seastead

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DashewOffshore

    — Vince

    #10326
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    I still feel that your Ball House is the way to go. Put a hexagonal, pentagonal or even square deck around it to make rafting easier, with the water ballast or my idea of the Japanese soup-bowl bottom skirt for stability…

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    For a unit under 500sq. ft.? HA!

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