September 26, 2011 at 2:24 am #1644
I did a quick search for this, and didn’t find any referenceto it, but have you guys seen Project Utopia yet?
This seems to be exactly what people seemt o be looking for as a doable floating city. I think this quote from the article sums it up nicely: ‘Utopia is not an object to travel in, it is a place to be, an island established for anyone who has the vision to create such a place.’September 26, 2011 at 3:03 am #15663
yay that looks sexy. does ne1 know how well it fairs in a hurricane? how bout just a small storm? does it rock u to death? or does it stay nice and calm like a bergstead?
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”September 26, 2011 at 3:13 am #15664September 26, 2011 at 3:18 am #15665
According to the article, the yacht is able to stay stable even in “extreme seas”.
Edit: I’m also curious as to why you think these are dumb? I think they are great, but perhaps I am missing something that you aren’t.September 26, 2011 at 4:55 am #15666Chr0nos wrote:
According to the article, the yacht is able to stay stable even in “extreme seas”.
Edit: I’m also curious as to why you think these are dumb? I think they are great, but perhaps I am missing something that you aren’t.
well i think they’re sexy, which is nice. they certainly look “smart”. but looking at them from a critical point of view they are probably a nightmare to own. what is the service life? what is the total cost of ownership per year, per sq. ft.? i mean, who cares if it looks sexy from the outside looking in, when it eats your wallet from the inside out!
another problem is the old ‘incrementalism’. we dont have a well-defined specific use for this facility because they jumped a couple steps in the market development category.
i just think there’s a lot of foolishness with that design. they seriously have a propulsion system? for what? how is that better than just paying for a tow in the rare occasion that u actually need to move? dont even dare tell me “oh moving around is not that rare”. bullshit. if u need to move around get a fricken boat. maybe i dont know enuff about hydrodynamics but 4 propellers on the upright columns keep this stable durig a storm? sounds like a bunch of BS.
this thing is all about appearance and no real substance. but again if they can sell it, yay.
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”September 26, 2011 at 12:59 pm #15667
You bring up some great points. I’d like to see the long term viability of these, if they end up putting them into production. It is great though, that they are addressing seasteading (Even if they don’t call it that). I’d love to see more manufacturers move into this direction, as far as looking into seasteading applications. Perhaps this will bring forward some viable seasteads that will be fully usable, and reasonable for reliability, and long term application.September 26, 2011 at 7:26 pm #15669
Just the fact that you don’t “believe” in a propulsion system doesn’t make so! In fact, NOT having one on a seastead (any seastead) would turn to be a deadly mistake one day. When living at the hook you will soon realize that those “rare occasions when you have to move” are in reality not that rare, but quite frequent, no matter how big you are….Calling for a tow, in this case, an ocean going tug, hundreds of miles away from shore is very expensive, more than having your own propulsion system. Also, if your are 1000nm offshore and a bad hurricane is rolling over you NOW, no tugboat captain in the right mind will come to you for all the money in the world, you will be on your own with no propulsion and suffer the consequences. Even if you call “in advance” it will take 4-5 days for a tow to show up so far offshore and it might be too late.
Also, since those guys from Yach Island Design ended up presenting at the Monaco Boat Show, I’m sure that they have some educated, proffesionals, naval architects, designers, naval engineers, boat buildes, etc who are working for them and definately know what they are taking about.September 28, 2011 at 12:02 am #15685
Quote from Chr0nos: “I think this quote from the article sums it up nicely: ‘Utopia is not an object to travel in, it is a place to be, an island established for anyone who has the vision to create such a place.’”
I agree, and the people who designed it, professional yacht and naval vehicle designers, say it is not only doable right now, but also withstands extreme weather, which has to mean the most extreme conditions you would endure in marine environment, on par with oil rigs, I would assume.
What is even more important, is that once seasteading nations start becoming commonplace, marketing and image of a seastead will place an important role in pulling the kind of people to these places they would desire to have, so having a sexy design will definitely help.
Just look at Dubai and its many wonders (The Palm islands, the world’s tallest building, the World archipelago), and how many professionals have relocated there, aided by non-existent taxation.
I wish the designers would have given some indication to the construction costs and how many people fit to the 11 accommodation decks, for estimations on per sq feet prices on residency and start-up costs.September 28, 2011 at 5:04 am #15687
Just by looking at “Utopia” you can realize it’s just somebody’s wet dream that in reality has nothing to do with seasteading but is intended to MAYBE and IF THEY’LL get some big bucks rolling in, built just another playground of the elite. And like with Dubai, the work force on “Utopia” will live “down below the ritzy 11 decks”, 20 in a dorm, working 18 hours shifts, 7 days a week, with no rights whatsoever and making shity money.
Also and again, just by looking at it, for residency prices, without $5 mil. in proven liquid funds they will not even answer your phone calls.September 28, 2011 at 9:31 pm #15689
Oceanopolis, there is nothing new in this design expect the form-factor, so you can take comps from the cruise industry for accommodation costs, and I bet, in the end, the current cruise ships are more expensive than the design for Project Utopia (because of the block-like way it has been put together).
In terms of prices, for example, prices on 3 day Bahamas cruise on Carnival (June 2012) go for less than $100 per night, giving a ballbark figure what accommodation in Project Utopia could be. In fact, you may even see old cruise ships converted into seastead usage before long, and pricing there should be less than on the new cruiselines.September 29, 2011 at 12:58 am #15690
100 bucks a nite? no sweat. i fart more than a 100 bucks a nite.
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”September 29, 2011 at 2:31 am #15691
New to site. What design do you believe compliments the seastead vision? Even though I think only one or two designs might work, I agree with Oceanopolis that they are just fancy cruise ships. I also agree the seastead unit should have propulsion, otherwise you will limit your commerce trade. With the different discussions on the forums, I thought the seastead idea was one of a sustaining unit with independence?September 29, 2011 at 3:53 am #15692
hello Sam7 welcome to our humble website. everyone has their own idea of what will work best. i am currently developing a floating island that can submerge below the surface during a major storm. therefore it can withstand the MOST major storms. up to and including a cat 5. i wholeheartedly disagree with all the people who think seasteads should have propulsion. in my (not always humble) opinion they should be built to withstand the weather at the location where they are installed. to me it just doesnt seem like steading if you always move around. thats just caravaning. we have seasteads that can move around, they’re called cruise ships.
do u like the Bergstead concept?
the reason this uptopia nightmare will never work is that they ignored the necessary incrementalism. they’ll never get a serious buyer.
also if i sound a little shitty its because my bathroom wall just fell down. tiles, drywall, down to the ground.
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”September 29, 2011 at 4:03 am #15694
ellmer – http://yook3.comParticipantSam7 wrote:
New to site. What design do you believe compliments the seastead vision? Even though I think only one or two designs might work, I agree with Oceanopolis that they are just fancy cruise ships. I also agree the seastead unit should have propulsion, otherwise you will limit your commerce trade. With the different discussions on the forums, I thought the seastead idea was one of a sustaining unit with independence?
It is probably not a good way to tackle seasteading – starting with a design approach, the wild west was not driven by a designer approach – no real frontier ever was. Frontiers simply take what is there and push it a little farer out.
My personal bet is that seasteading will develop along some of those axes:
The catamaran float / The plate float out / The real estate squaremeter deal / The Captain Nemo float out / The bubble hotel / The current turbine / Breakwater lagoon marina / Oceanic port city design /
We discussed it in the following forums here in the TSI universe:
What is useful for seasteaders will be decided by market forces – different projects and markets will be part of the new frontier.
concretesubmarine.comSeptember 29, 2011 at 2:34 pm #15695
what the best way to tackle seasteading might be, just talking about it won’t get us anywhere. The wild west wasn’t driven by conversation but hardcore determined people who jumped in their wagons and headed west.
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