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A Practical Beginning

Home Forums Community Dreaming / Crazy Ideas / Speculation A Practical Beginning

This topic contains 36 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of kgilliland1980 kgilliland1980 3 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 37 total)
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  • #1571
    Profile photo of shadowmane
    shadowmane
    Participant

    I think the first step to seasteading is someone establishing an open ocean fish farm, with a used boat. Once they get that under way, then they begin building a seastead with a schedule to launch on their migratory path on the schedule I’ve seen floating around here somewhere. I think it would be some time in May if you launch from the East Coast on the North Atlantic Gyre. You could use the 3 year plan from the winner of the recent business plan contest modified to be a simple business start up, with the eventual idea of forming it into a Mondragon style company. Your initial employees would be local fishermen and interns from a university.

    The initial “seatead” would be a fishing boat that could hold all of your employees, and would be offshore of one of the Eastern states. Once the seastead (or series of single family seasteads) is built, then you launch out on the migratory path. There would, of course, be a lot of footwork involved, but it would be a start.

    #14505
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    hi Shadow,

    fish farming is one way of staying busy out there, but the fish farmer still needs money to afford other things he cant make. the challenge here is making the fish farm competitive with industrial forces already on the market – otherwise they risk “going under”.

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #14506
    Profile photo of shadowmane
    shadowmane
    Participant

    I just spent the better part of the evening looking up how to start an open ocean aquaculture farm. The problem in the US is that there is no regulatory setup as of yet, and there are three different Federal Departments (plus quite a few state ones) that have to come up with the rules of the road. Add to that the environmentalist idiots running around screaming the sky is falling and you come up with a nightmare just to get it started.

    #14507
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I don’t remember how many times I said this, but I will say it one more time: Why would anybody would go in the middle of the ocean to fish farm instead of just fishing and sell the fish? How is this making any business sense? Also, how can absence of regulation in the US be “detrimental” to the business? Just go and do it then. Sry to be so blunt, but it doesn’t make sense,…What? You want regulation so you have to pay fees, permits and deal with the government BS?

    #14508
    Profile photo of xns
    xns
    Participant

    Ocean,no one goes out there to fish because you don’t catch enough fish, the catch is irregular, and you can’t guarantee the quality of the product. It’s why my customers are mine and not some.. trawler captain’s.

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #14509
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    What’s “enough” fish man? Does it mean that they didn’t make the “dollar mark” for the corporation? What,…the profit is not there?? Of course is not,… the fisheries are shut, it’s all gone man. All over the World’s oceans. Take and take, dollar after dollar and overfish and never replace. It’s close to the end! I live in Florida and I know fish. Farmed fish taste like shit man,…the tilapia coming from China is garbage. The farmed raised shrimp taste like cardboard and the farmed raised salmon is “yellowish” and tasteless instead of deep red and fishy. Yes, the customers are yours,…and? what am I to say,…bravo? C’mon,…real fresh fish should eat pelagic fish and should swim freely in the ocean, not be raised in a cage fed with worms!

    Regardless and nothing personal, but my comment was related to the alleged “Practical beginning” posted by Shadow, postulating that “the first step to seasteading is someone establishing an open ocean a fish farm, with a used boat,…in the middle of the North Atlantic Gyre”. Again, how is this making business sense, as a practical beginning?? Boat, cages(or nets or pods,…whatever) food for the fish, living quarters for the workers, food, energy, generators, diesel untill the fish grows up, selling the fish from the middle of the ocean,…. Plsss,…the catch out there might be irregular but @ least you can sell fast whatever you catch today (if you have the right connections) instead of waiting 4 month to make a buck, if you will,…considering the huge overhead.

    #14516
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    hold ctrl key, scroll forward to zoom

    i think that the MMK would be better if it was marketed primarily in larger sizes, 10-20m sq, or bigger. what if it was literally the shape of a house key, and between the “teeth” were maybe 4-5 docks? that would be gr8. u can run with that 1 Ocean.

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #14518
    Profile photo of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    Probably not a good idea to post your full name and phone number on a forum known to be patrolled by spammers…

    Nice shorts though…

    #14519
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    yea, privacy schmivacy. i drive around with it.

    here u go Oceean;

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #14521
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    That’s funny man.

    Now the “Keys” comes from the spanish “cayo”. (you said you went to college? :)

    Early history

    The Florida Keys were originally inhabited by Calusa and Tequesta Native Americans. Spanish explorers Juan Ponce de León and Antonio de Herrera sailed into the string of islands in 1513. They dubbed the archipelago “Los Martires” (The Martyrs), because the craggy rocks ‘looked like men suffering in the surf’. “Key” is corrupted from the Spanish Cayo, meaning “small island.”

    Since we are here, let me update you on what you’ve been missing by living in that shity Baltimore, instead of the Keys :)

    http://www.fla-keys.com/keywest/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOxf7Ih5sPA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWH2m6kHlh0 (by the way, that’s shot in front of the City Hall,…)

    The MMK is 1100 sq ft, can sleep 6 (sober ones), 10 (drunks) and 14 (totally wastead) seasteaders, has modern accomodations, a seawater pool, a 23′ cabin cruiser for tender and cost $50k to built, not $187k like your cubestead,…oops, sry, Bergstead :)

    #14522
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    AND it has net metric usefulness of… almost nothing

    jk!

    gosh i always wondered what the naked female looked like, videos appreciated

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #14523
    Profile photo of xns
    xns
    Participant

    Ocean hold on, is your point that we SHOULDN’T be fishing the seas or that we SHOULD? If you know the catch is irregular or even gone, how or why would you bother building a business around it?

    When I say there aren’t “enough” fish I meant you don’t make enough from selling the fish to break even. Trawling is an extremely expensive operation, far more so than farming.

    As for your views on farmed fish, I can’t say much, but you should keep in mind that we farm more fish than we catch, so you’re very likely eating farmed produce without realizing it. And wild Salmon are NOT redder than farmed ones. It’s the opposite, because of the pigments added to the feed. And no one I know of uses worms, they’re far too expensive. E.g. I can sell my worms for $120/kg to bait shops, about the same as what my most expensive fish is worth. That and if you’re getting Tilapia from China, they’re probably re-selling stock they buy from Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand or Indonesia. Which would explain the taste. And if you’re in florida, the fish you normally eat(Bass/Grouper/snapper/perch/hind) feed on bottom dwelling invertibrates, not pelagic phytoplankton feeders.

    Shadowmane, it might interest you to know that many ex-trawler captains now act as middle-men between fish farms and land based traders. E.g. Every 4 months, a fleet of trawlers from Taiwan sail down to floating farms on the west coast of Malaysia, buy 40,000 tons of fish at once and sail back up to Taiwan. So you wouldn’t even have to head back to shore once you got your production cycle started. And if you can process your stock BEFORE selling it to the trawlers, your profit margins are even higher because you can recycle the offal.

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #14526
    Profile photo of shadowmane
    shadowmane
    Participant

    xns, that’s exactly my point. You strike out on your own to begin with and set up with fishing companies to come get your stock. If you set up on the North Atlantic Gyre, you would sell to a US firm one part of the year, a European one another part of the year, and African one and finally a Carribean/South American one. In the US they are scrambling to see how they can get fees from leasing the land under the sea in the EEZ. I think that’s approaching it pretty stupid. They are looking at it from a “land” point of view. If you actually look at it from a “cowboy” point of view, you will see that seasteading, in the beginning, will be very much like owning a moving chicken or turkey farm (if you want to go cowboy, you’re going to have to start raising whales). In fact, that is the best comparison that can be made. Instead of hunting the chickens with nets trawling the bottom of the sea, you are raising the chicken and selling it on whatever market is closest to you. Now for me, a US citizen, the US is going to want to regulate that somehow. But once I’m outside of the EEZ, they really can’t regulate it. They can just tell me I can’t come back into the EEZ. Of course, as a US citizen, they’re going to tax my business anyway, no matter where I conduct it. That’s just the drawback of being an American citizen. They want your money not matter what, and you won’t see the small city-states TSI is envisioning for another 50-100 years. You’re going to have to work within the existing framework until a new one can be established. Our grandchildren or great-grandchildren will be the ones crossing that bridge in the future, not us.

    #14529
    Profile photo of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    within the existing framework until a new one can be established. Our grandchildren or great-grandchildren will be the ones crossing that bridge in the future, not us.” Oh ye of little faith! “…have boat will travel! If 60,000 like-minded dreamers, dreamers who dream with their eyes wide open from coast to coast and around the world, come together with common cause, we can make a place to go and we’ll sail in the sun forever! So say we all!” If the Republic can get 60,000 Citizen Captains and Subject Citizens representing up to a quarter million Subjects, it will be big enough that its individual people can just say NO to the macro-nations of the the world. NO to their taxes, no to their restrictions, no to their regulations, laws, policies and procedures. No to their guilded cage and chains of Socialist Slavery! We will be able to tell them to go to hell and mean it! E Pluribus Unum

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Profile photo of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    shadowmane wrote:
    But once I’m outside of the EEZ, they really can’t regulate it. They can just tell me I can’t come back into the EEZ. Of course, as a US citizen, they’re going to tax my business anyway, no matter where I conduct it. That’s just the drawback of being an American citizen.

    They cannot prevent you from entering the EEZ. They can’t even prevent you from entering the contiguous zone or their territorial waters. Any vessel has the right of “innocent passage” which means you can come and go as you please. Of course they can board you and demand to see your papers proving you have a valid flag registration. But they cannot prevent you from being in those waters.

    They can, of course, prevent you from coming ashore with your wares.

    As for taxation, just renounce your U.S. citizenship. If want freedom from laws and regulations it’s a required step.

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