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Possible Solution of UN recognition

Home Forums Community Dreaming / Crazy Ideas / Speculation Possible Solution of UN recognition

This topic contains 38 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS OCEANOPOLIS 4 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 9 posts - 31 through 39 (of 39 total)
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  • #7846
    Avatar of GreenGestalt
    GreenGestalt
    Participant

    Oh, and Green, what do you mean about the “Anti-Capitalist” part?

    I am for “Trade” but “Anti-Capitalist”.

    My politics are “Tribal Socialism” along with a “Scientific Colectivist” and “Hedonic Transcendent” motive.

    It’s true, America isn’t truly “Capitalist” it’s “Protectionist” which sometimes goes to keeping a good middle class but usally is “Robber Baron” rule for the elites. However, they’ve used that term so often it may as well mean it. Capitalism left on its own creates a society as or more cruel than Dicken’s London. And, like other parasitic systems it is detremental to man’s progress, creating societies of people struggling for resources against each other, or brief periods of comfort at the expense of injury to other exploited cultures. It is Capitalism that is destroying the world economy and the people it benefits the most see nothing but the next three months profits. With luck they’ll destroy America and the world trade system before either (Bankers or America) can get around to harassing us, but hopefully not before we have enough SeaSteaders to start the nation.

    I am, however, for “Trade”. But trade along more ancient rules of exchange: Something is worth what you can get another to pay for it. There is no true value in anything other than what people choose to believe it has. There is no true wealth beyond man’s need. -and- Trading is theiving unless it is barter. I also might throw in “A bank robber supports the system in that he agrees with the banker the value of the money he covets, while the true radical tries to get people to go back to barter.”

    So for my Kultur meme, people can use any money they want -but- it is immoral to live entirely off money, to be in debt or work with debt, to gamble. They have their place in their tribe, they at least have a “Sea Gypsy” hut if they have to make it out of scrap, they draw the line at living entirely off money, off the will of others to employ them and others to sell to them. Ideally, that is a “Tribe” where people work toghether for mutual profit. My Oseana will be individual tribes but then a larger confederation with elected representatives, Elders (like senators), Shamans (Scientists and visionaries), Storytellers (Media co-ordinators) and a “High Chief”. We can and will certainly work out labor and money exchanges, especially to get the “Space Elevator” built, but we won’t let anyone control what we do on out individual sea-steads or impose any laws on our citizens beyond the bare bones of hospitality and mutual aid. We might work with an oil company on a floating platform and out of respect to the business wear coveralls and we’d work hard, but then we’d have regular (not unreasonable) trips home where we could wear nothing and lounge all day, no endless work and no “Cheap outside labor” in our territories. Or we might have a “Tourist City” in the middle of Oseana for cruise ships to dock at, and make an “Interzone” there, but again Oseana would remain Oseana.

    I’m working out ways of inter-tribal trade now. Ideally it should be free, offered and accepted only when needed and a “Gift of honor” bestowed for anything big, no consequence for basic hospitality or fair exchange… But there should be a way of keeping track. I’m thinking “Tiki” things that have to be hand carved and contain useful substances, such as gold or medicine…

    BTW-I love your idea of political refuse! I didn’t like the “Prison” idea someone posted earlier, but the Political refuse is a good one. In a way, I intend it to be voluntary from America as to one of my strongest recruiting tactics. Frustration over the rat race and freedom from laws that oppress people in the states, such as marriage and divorce laws and our depressed and disappointing labor market. Why put up with a spoiled B-tch woman who’ll eventually cheat on you but get everything when you can join a seastead and get a cute lil lady from other countries who’ll just be greatful you aren’t a brute, or a pimp? Why put up with a job where no matter how hard you work you’ll be fired for a cheaper or younger person when you can be part of a tribe and frankly either (based on tribe) sit and lounge and do “Survival” work or everyone works hard and you all make and share profits? Myself I want to let my hair go shaggy so I have chicken bones stuck in hair from my kneecaps and wear nothing but an “Animal” t-shirt. (Muppets) In RL I dress very respectable and conservative to avoid arrest and work well at jobs and its driving me batty and better I escape to a SeaStead before I go “Mad Scientist”. And, ultamately, that is my “Beef” with Capitalism. I don’t want a society of constant struggle to support the few at the top (who act more tribally, communally amongst themselves!) and essentially “Sell” my life to them for the barest of rewards. It is one thing to live and another to be alive. That is the first and most important part of my ‘stead project’s constitution.

    #7855
    Avatar of cthulhujunior
    cthulhujunior
    Participant

    Let’s just say we disagree on a few things. I hold my life is my own, entirely, and I only lose it if I agress against another’s. The “Robber Baron” problem you mention is the attempt by JP Morgans and John Rockefellers to force a market to behave a certain way- protectionism. Business style agression is possible when compliance is required for survival. Requiring something for survival tends to convince people agree to stupid things. What turns me on about Seasteading is it’s dang-near guaranteed survival- guaranteed ability to say “no.” Oh, and yes, I am the sort of cold and heartless fiend who doesn’t care if a couple kids can’t get food.

    Anyway, whatever we have different between us (I just want to sail from port to port with my wife and maybe a few friends while tinkering with robots and managing investments, namely a cruise liner retrofitted into a floating liberty-mall), we have one pretty big thing in common: The ocean’s plenty big enough for the two of us.

    #7871
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    I want you to know that it irks me to agree that you are better off with a Romanian passport than an American one! I agree with your rational, but it irks me. I know how Americans are perceived because I’ve been there and done that. It’s a fucking hurdle to overcome because people automatically assume that ‘I’ am what ‘we’ are! What’s more, to paraphrase Emma Goldman, “Politics is the opiate of the the masses in a democracy!” Every two years we ‘vote’ on who’s going to steer and who’s going to operate the pedals of the Car of State on the Highway to hell and none of ‘em want to take the off ramp!!! That irks me too…

    Green, propaganda, dis-information, miss-information and the principles of Need to Know have their uses and any start-up seastead community will need to know HOW to use them but even so, maintaining a low profile, I think, would be a better plan.

    Junior, you’re working from an old play-book: the Morgans, Rockefeller’s, Warburgs, Rothschilds, bilderbergers, CFR and all the rest are part and passel of the multi-national corporate reality we live in! There are no ‘people’ involved any more only ‘corporate persons’ who owe allegiance to no one and nothing! Once, when it was possible, we could have dealt with ‘People’ but you can’t deal with corporate persons and ‘they’ will let YOU starve…

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    No worries man. There are 25 millions Romanians using the same passport instead of the mighty American one. Poor bastards,..little they now what they are missing. Its just a piece of paper. It means nothing and it has no REAL value other than the 80 bucks that the Romanian goverment wants for it. These 80 bucks are just a piece of paper too w/no REAL value. I could never understand this sense of nationalistic pride, and the only explanation is that govermens all over the world are brainwashing “their” citizens into beliving that they are the “best” or the”greatest” since sliced bread, in order to serve their demented interests. And the process go on and on and on and it works on the majority of the masses. Borders, passports, nations, states, citizens, United Nations (ha,…)…bunch of bull shit. I like how these guys from Oceanus put it, http://oceanus21.tripod.com/why.htm.

    I dont want no part of this charade and to be honest w/ you I think that the passport subject is intelectualy weak.:-) And yes I feel your pain. It is very unfortunate that “I am We” mentality still persists,…

    But wait and see how the seasteaders will be labeled when this whole thing becomes reality! You better hold tight man, because you havent seen nothing yet!

    Liberals, rejects, commies, lunatics, perverts, druggies, anarchists, scum,…just to mention the nice ones. Dont loose any sleep over any of it, its not worth it.

    #7879
    Avatar of cthulhujunior
    cthulhujunior
    Participant

    wohl1917 wrote:

    Junior, you’re working from an old play-book: the Morgans, Rockefeller’s, Warburgs, Rothschilds, bilderbergers, CFR and all the rest are part and passel of the multi-national corporate reality we live in! There are no ‘people’ involved any more only ‘corporate persons’ who owe allegiance to no one and nothing! Once, when it was possible, we could have dealt with ‘People’ but you can’t deal with corporate persons and ‘they’ will let YOU starve…

    Yes, my examples are a bit, well, dead. There aren’t too many industrialists these days, good or bad, and everything seems to be run by corporations. GE has essentially replaced Rockefeller; the main bank is ironically still JP Morgan/Chase. Corporations as I understand them are the combination of people’s money into a single business venture with those people having a say in the operation of that venture proportional to the amount of money they put in. They are usually formed out of the need for vast accumulation of capital that a bank wouldn’t loan, and security for each individual investor in case the mission fails. Hence, by their very nature corporations have slow growth rates, don’t take risks, and are protectionistic. They’re about securing income, not making profit. Making profit is the result of one man turning an idea into reality and selling it at a rate such that people will buy it for more than it cost to make it. Hence, making profit is making value.

    Anyway, corporations and other legal entities have muddied the philosophical waters a bit. However, even if they got a new playbook they’re still playing the same game. Their goal is to force you to deal with them, to ensure a market and the income generated therein. My goal is to make such force impossible. I know good and well that my life will suffer without trade. However, if I don’t like a particular potential business partner for some reason or other i.e. they don’t offer good rates and are bullies, I can do so. Or at least I’ll be able to with my big boat; the state of the US these days is such that you can’t. Remember Mussolini- “fascism” is more accurately referred to as “corporatism.” While I have no problem with people forming corporations (America was founded on corporations- the Virginia Company), and I have no problem with a businessman, corporate or otherwise, refusing to do business with me except on certain terms (even if it means I starve), I do have major qualms with anyone telling me I must agree to such-and-such terms. With my big boat and an onboard food supply, this ability to say “no” is almost guaranteed.

    Oh, and one more thing:

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    Liberals, rejects, commies, lunatics, perverts, druggies, anarchists, scum,…just to mention the nice ones.

    “Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” I’m just sayin’…

    Hope this helps.

    #7883
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    Liberals, rejects, commies, lunatics, perverts, druggies, anarchists and scum generally can’t get and keep their act together long enough to do much of anything but cause trouble for everyone else! More importantly, I haven’t met too many of those people on the water. There are always a few morons and dumb-asses out there you have to watch out for, but the real ‘liberals, rejects, commies, lunatics, perverts, druggies, anarchists and scum’ just won’t be able to cope with the reality of life at sea. Over the long haul, they will put to land or sink. As for Oceanus, I looked into them and others before I started work on the Republic. At that time, if you E-Mailed them it fell into a black hole I don’t know about now though. In any case, I thought it was a lot of pieces of worthless paper for a few pieces of even more worthless paper! The Citizen of the World thing has been done before: Oceanus just tied it to the oceans in particular…

    Junior, I agree with you, basically about where we are and where the US is going. I call it the “International Socialist Welfare Police State” and it’s been all around us for years, just no one could see it. They see it, or think they see it, now! Most of them don’t because to see and understand what you see is two different things. It’s all smoke and mirrors, sleight of hand, miss/dis-information. We’re being lied too even when ‘they’ and ‘them’ are telling the truth! “…it’s a death trap, a suicide rap, we got to get out while we’re young ’cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run!” I intend to run to the last frontier on earth, the sea!

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    It was a metaphor,.. They, the “‘liberals, rejects, commies, lunatics, perverts, druggies, anarchists and scum’ , are the functional ones!

    #7890
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    Yea, I get it! I’m a little slow on the up-take and need to lighten up… Lol, like that’s gonna’ happen!

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Mark my words. It will happen. Sooner than you think! :-)

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