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poop

Home Forums Archive Infrastructure poop

This topic contains 37 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of  Anonymous 3 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 38 total)
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  • #6894
    Profile photo of Tholan
    Tholan
    Participant

    jcrawford wrote:

    This seems like it has huge potential, then. Particularly if you use ballast tanks for it, as was recommended, which reduces the use of space. What kind of efficiency are we looking at? like, at what rate could a group of fish of a sane size process material?

    Don’t the reactions need a certain temperature range in order to occur? Ballast tanks (below the waterline) would be a heat sink that would suck energy out of he reactor. I could be totally mistaken about this. And it is completely possible to desigh a under water-line structure that has low thermal conductivity that will isolate the bioreactor from the ocean to create a more uniform control surface around the system.

    #6900
    Profile photo of trodoel
    trodoel
    Participant

    I am just going to assume you have enough power on a seastead from wind solar or whatever. There are toilets that just dry out and burn up the human waste. You can then just dump the ashes somewhere or mix into your soil or concrete? The same companies also make composting toilets. I tend to not like “systems” that require a constant supply of additional thing, but there are chemical toilets for the boating industry. They mainly sterilize the waste before it is dumped. I would prefer the compost or incinerating toilets.

    #7052
    Profile photo of jcrawford
    jcrawford
    Participant

    Tholan wrote:

    jcrawford wrote:

    This seems like it has huge potential, then. Particularly if you use ballast tanks for it, as was recommended, which reduces the use of space. What kind of efficiency are we looking at? like, at what rate could a group of fish of a sane size process material?

    Don’t the reactions need a certain temperature range in order to occur? Ballast tanks (below the waterline) would be a heat sink that would suck energy out of he reactor. I could be totally mistaken about this. And it is completely possible to desigh a under water-line structure that has low thermal conductivity that will isolate the bioreactor from the ocean to create a more uniform control surface around the system.

    [/quote]

    Temperature could be an issue. With sufficient insulation of the bioreactor, I suppose you could maintain temperature with minimal electrical or gas usage. I’m suspecting that that would involve more energy usage than just a sterilizing & macerating or incinerating toilet.

    #7055
    Profile photo of Max-Marty
    Max-Marty
    Participant

    Aeolius wrote:

    From http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/314631/texas_pilgrims_in_space/index.html :

    Some studies are looking into the use of fish — specifically tilapia — as a way to recycle shower water, toilet waste and the water clothes are washed in. Tilapia eat human waste and are safe for human consumption afterward, said Vickie Kloeris, who manages the Space Food Systems Laboratory at Johnson Space Center.”

    Apparently tilapia can survive in brackish water. Perhaps we use gray water as ballast in the spars and farm tilapia within them?

    And to think Tilapia is my favorite fish to cook =



    Anyway, someone mentioned creating organic food onboard a seastead. Heck, I don’t care what anyone does on their seastead, but for me – I can’t imagine being able to afford the added cost of creating organic food onboard a seastead. Growing organically requires about twice as much acreage/crop, requires an order of magnitude more pesticides, and frankly would castrate a seastead’s ability to grow enough to feed itself even if everyone onboard slaved from day to night on the task. Don’t get me wrong, I like some organic food – Horizon organic milk won out on a blind taste test my girlfriend setup for me… but there’s no possible way I can imagine a seastead would have enough room to grow substantial amounts of food let alone grow it organicly.

    This guy
    sums up the issues with organic food quite nicely.

    #7059
    Profile photo of Melllvar
    Melllvar
    Participant

    Organic food production may be rather easy (compared to non-organic) on a SS. Being 200+ miles out at sea should greatly limit the organisms available to attack crops, atleast until they are brought on board by careless passengers. Even once that happens, it might possible to design the “farmsteads” to be easily cleansed of unwanted insects and such, for example by washing them out with seawater.

    #7418
    Profile photo of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    I guess this is the thread in which to bring this up, but I just wanted to point out that if we were to establish waste treatment plants, we would not need them on board every seastead. Especially if we can divert greywater to other uses, blackwater (essentially, poop) could simply sit in a tank until collected periodically by ships making the rounds, pumping out poop, and carrying it to a sewage treatment stead. Self-sufficiency, if desirable, does not necessarily imply that every seastead would be entirely self-sufficient, but rather that the community would be self-sufficient.

    There is already a precedent for such a system, as any homeowner with a septic tank is aware (though of course septic fields get rid of excess water, leaving only the solid waste to be pumped at multi-year intervals).

    From that point, the question of how to dispose of human waste need only be left to those whose business it is to do so.

    Likewise, I won’t need to enter into a discussion of farming here, because that discussion is best left to those people who want to farm. Freedom on the seas doesn’t mean that we leave community and specialization behind – it just means that we get to easily change which communities we want to associate with.

    Anyway, some farmers will want to try organic farming, some will want to use genetically engineered crops, and some might try to raise algae in tanks. The beauty of freedom is that all this experimentation can take place, and more than one way of solving problems can be found.

    #7982
    Profile photo of KatieSeaGypsies
    KatieSeaGypsies
    Participant

    Anubisrising wrote:

    haha, nasty issue, but, I’m wondering if you can use human poop for anything. I think if this idea of Seasteading is going to be pursued, we should gather all the best green builders and engineers and see what they can come up with for using everything.

    Hello friends,

    We have real world experience with this issue on our 33′ sailboat. We purchased an AirHead composting toilet. It took a while to get it right but it works. Just add peat moss or coconut husk from the garden shop and you have a rich soil that is close to perfect. It would be perfect for trees or a great place to start a worm farm. It condenses down very nicely. The urine situation is not a problem. Urine is heated when it passes through the urinary tract and out and is little more than water. Urine can go over the side without affecting the ocean.

    There are several composting designs out there, we chose the AirHead because other, more experienced, sailors suggested it.

    I think that it could definitely be used as a base design for something bigger. So, my suggestion, use the composted human waste to grow coconut tress and you can use the milk and coconut meat and the husks for new compost.

    #8669
    Profile photo of billswift
    billswift
    Participant

    I remember reading about 20 years ago, that it took the manure of about 40 dairy cows to produce enough methane to cook for a family of 4, so it’s not really practical as a primary energy source. On the other hand, a methane digester is an excellent liquid manure composter, if you primarily used it for that and just trapped the methane as a minor side product, that may be practical. You need to do something with the shit after all; and it works better as fertilizer if it has been composted first.

    Methane digestion needs anaerobic conditions. Ordinary composting (garden composting and composting toilets) use aerobic conditions specifically to prevent formation of methane.

    #9633
    Profile photo of CrosiarCM
    CrosiarCM
    Participant

    I think most people here fail to understand what am incredibly valuable resource organic waste is. It is true that there is danger from using this type of organic waste directly in food crops, but there are plenty of non-food crops that you need to fertilize. But I think the best option I am familiar with is red worm farming. Red worms can devour human and other organic waste. The red worms themselves sterilize the organic material and produce worm castings that are the best organic suppliments you can imagine for growing plants. If you are still leery at using the castings on food, consider sterilizing the casting in a compost pile and then using. The red worms themselves can improve your soil by airation and tilling of the soil. Also, the worms make great fish food for your aquaculture. And for all of these benefits, the worms only ask for a small amount of water.

    Please, clear the yuk factor out of your city dwelling heads…

    – You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

    #9641
    Profile photo of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    billswift wrote:

    I remember reading about 20 years ago, that it took the manure of about 40 dairy cows to produce enough methane to cook for a family of 4, so it’s not really practical as a primary energy source. On the other hand, a methane digester is an excellent liquid manure composter, if you primarily used it for that and just trapped the methane as a minor side product, that may be practical. You need to do something with the shit after all; and it works better as fertilizer if it has been composted first.

    Methane digestion needs anaerobic conditions. Ordinary composting (garden composting and composting toilets) use aerobic conditions specifically to prevent formation of methane.

    Mother Earth News has an old artical on a 1-cow digester. It uses a modified 55 gal drum and some rubber inner-tubes. It was sufficient to cook 1 meal, for 1 person, per day.

    The Chinese Bio-gas digester, uses all animal wastes (people, pets, livestock) to produce methane for cooking and heating, along with fairly well processed sludge, for fertilizer. I would suggest adding an aerobic process, after the anaerobicsfor best safety and least complexity.

    To increase the heat-value of the gas, it is necessary to remove the CO2. This has been achieved with a lime/water solution(hydrated lime/white-wash), which can be renewed by simply heating the solution to release the CO2. Alternately, the mixed gasses can be run through a multi-stage compressor and the CO2 precipitated out, making “Dry-Ice.” Personally, I’d use the simpler method and release the CO2 into a greenhouse, until I decide I need the Dry-Ice, which could be used in old-fashioned ice-boxes and vented into the greenhouse…

    Nice to have options, at any rate.

    Later,

    J.L..F.

    If you can’t swim with the big fish, stick to the reef

    #9642
    Profile photo of libertariandoc
    libertariandoc
    Participant

    But if you heat the lime/water, you need energy…

    And a better use for the worm casings is to feed freshwater fish (tilapia? Catfish?)…you can put the worm farms over the fish tanks, as a matter of fact, self-feeding. And if a worm falls through, the fish don’t mind.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I won’t be wronged. I won’t be insulted. I won’t be laid a-hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

    #9645
    Profile photo of CrosiarCM
    CrosiarCM
    Participant

    And a better use for the worm casings is to feed freshwater fish (tilapia? Catfish?)…you can put the worm farms over the fish tanks, as a matter of fact, self-feeding. And if a worm falls through, the fish don’t mind.

    I have heard of feeding the fish with worms, but never with the castings. Any refs for this? sounds interesting…

    – You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

    #9649
    Profile photo of Aeolius
    Aeolius
    Participant

    “Some studies are looking into the use of fish — specifically tilapia — as a way to recycle shower water, toilet waste and the water clothes are washed in. Tilapia eat human waste and are safe for human consumption afterward, said Vickie Kloeris, who manages the Space Food Systems Laboratory at Johnson Space Center.” – http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10179202/

    #9651
    Profile photo of CrosiarCM
    CrosiarCM
    Participant

    Aeolius wrote:

    “Some studies are looking into the use of fish — specifically tilapia — as a way to recycle shower water, toilet waste and the water clothes are washed in. Tilapia eat human waste and are safe for human consumption afterward, said Vickie Kloeris, who manages the Space Food Systems Laboratory at Johnson Space Center.” – http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10179202/

    Ok, the yuk factor is back.

    – You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

    #9659
    Profile photo of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    But if you heat the lime/water, you need energy…

    And a better use for the worm casings is to feed freshwater fish (tilapia? Catfish?)…you can put the worm farms over the fish tanks, as a matter of fact, self-feeding. And if a worm falls through, the fish don’t mind.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I won’t be wronged. I won’t be insulted. I won’t be laid a-hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

    THe sun can do the heating, with a simple system.

    Later,

    J.L..F.

    If you can’t swim with the big fish, stick to the reef

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 38 total)

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