1. Skip to navigation
  2. Skip to content
  3. Skip to sidebar




permanently submerged concrete structures – living space bubble concept

Home Forums Research Engineering permanently submerged concrete structures – living space bubble concept

This topic contains 47 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Sam7 Sam7 2 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 48 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #15563
    Avatar of xns
    xns
    Participant

    There are several other reasons for packing amenities as close together as possible; maximizing use of infrastructure, defensibility, Highrises have nice views, transport efficiency. Stuff like that.

    But of course, that’s entirely dependent on the private developer, I’m just government. So I’ll definitely build a city with as large a footprint as possible, but my own property will be several floors high and deep.

    In the meantime it looks like the best approach will be to start setting money aside for several smaller versions that concrete plate you mentioned.

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #15807
    Avatar of Sam7
    Sam7
    Participant

    Ellmer, what did you think of the Draugen/Troll designs?With the added space bubble concept. Is xns still persuing the concrete design?(200x200x50).

    How is your submersible doing?

    #15811

    It is sitting in ready to go to water position after a 150m movement over land. We have a valid permit. But things that are beyond our control (third party interference in the project) made it necessary to send the launch team home and stop works for now.

    All in all we are happy as the project is as good as finished (contract was raw hull building) and we did it in budget. As we have proven the concept with the working prototype in the nighties already what was left to show was that we can build a big hull within the 331 Euro per ton budget that we announced. Turns out we can. We are now looking for partners to take the concept to the next step.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #15812
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    *pat on back. great work Ellmo!

    good to see somebody actually do something, rather than just ‘talk about’.

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #15810

    Sam7, no doubth Draughen and Troll are designs that have shown their value over time at sea.

    .

    The problem is most of all visible in picture 1 where you see how bad the structure / living space ratio is on that kind of industrial platforms. A lot of structure to rise a desperatly small platform out of the reach of waves translates in cost, cost, cost, which is not a problem for big oil, but it is a problem for a “urban living space development”.

    What might be a solution is to take a very thin shaft (like the one of a floating wind turbine) and put a very light (treehouse like) living space instead of the rotor.

    In fact modern higrise buildings are built that way. You have a tubular concrete core that is slipformed – and then the floors are put hanging on the core like the treehouse on a tree. Slipforming a core is along the lines of the Rion-Antirion Bridge Pylon.

    Troll A – inside the tubular leg of the platform – engineers 300m below the waves.

    We had part of this concept also discussed among the term “FLIP SHIPp” but it seems obvious that it is much more feasible to avoid “flipping” completly. Similar concepts based on vertical tubular structures are also discussed under SEA ORBITER.

    In general i am not a fan of vertical tubular structures because they create a tower like living space that is not very easy useable for housing.

    If you take the shaft of draughen or Troll and put it horizontally, streamline it, you get a living space bubble like this.

    see video of interior space feel size and light conditions (here) – see more videos (here) – so my prefered plan is to skip the platform and the structure to put it above the waves altogether and go for a submerged bubble living space which gives you a lot more bang for the bug ( cubic meter wave impact free living space per dollar).

    #15813
    Avatar of Kurt
    Kurt
    Participant

    I pictured a squid design: a central propulsion submarine with retractable anchors for the seabed and retractable attachments to community pods. These pods float on the surface for both transit and living under normal conditions, but can be retracted to the central submarine and submerged for several days in case of storms, rogue waves, or other emergencies, with air supplies refreshed when pods return to the surface. The central submarine can also house a Boron Polywell Fusion reactor for community power needs but this technology will not be ready until at least 2016. It can also house a greenhouse wastewater treatment facility, since fiber optics make natural light infrastructure a rather simple task.

    Of course the pods themselves would have propulsion, as that’s how communities would evolve or pods would stand alone. However, having a central efficient energy source, wastewater treatment, propulsion boost and other utilities on a central submarine that pods can attach/detach would be a better solution.

    #15820
    Avatar of Sam7
    Sam7
    Participant

    Something like the picture on top submerged half underwater on top of concrete structure simular to the one on the bottom? Then have 20′ sections all the way to the sea floor, used for different business/living space. You could have horse shoe pockets all around for steaders/comerce trade. At the bottom would be more outward structures for underwater exploration, minning,farming, learning how to live in a confined enviroment such as space(goog training exersize for space travel).

    Nice sub.what is the exterior hull made of? Are the pictures of the inside of the one pictured?

    Renting out some sections, plus diversified farming would cover costs later. Not to mention it would make a perfect power plant producer. Though what tax /tarrif would be placed on the supply to the country your stationed out from. Just about any amount of power could be produced, even more than the new china dam. Very profitable and steaders would have work. More thoughts floating.

    #15822
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    The problem is most of all visible in picture 1 where you see how bad the structure / living space ratio is on that kind of industrial platforms. A lot of structure to rise a desperatly small platform out of the reach of waves translates in cost, cost, cost, which is not a problem for big oil, but it is a problem for a “urban living space development”.

    The point, as Sam said, is that you use the tower as living/work space along with the platform. Technically you could have the platform be just the helipad and boat dock with all living/work space in the tower. A 70m diameter 164m tall tower, such as pylon M3 in the Rion-Antirion bridge, is a hell of a lot of living area.

    Plus, as I mentioned before, having something attached to the seafloor goes a long way towards furthering sovereignty claims.

    #15864
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant
    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:

    it is probably the most suitable idea for a modular island design – the grid itself does not need to be rigid too….the building could have a loose fit in the building lot… the connectors could be like zephyrheart suggested instead of walkways on the surface make submarine tunnels that can be used in any seastate they would work like the roots of the waterlilly – give some flexibility to avoid excessive stress between islands.

    Carbon Dioxide freezes at normal temperatures @ 5ATM depth. Perfect structural material. Coat a 5ATM pressure housing in enough CO2 and you can take it as deep as you want.

    #15871
    Avatar of Sam7
    Sam7
    Participant

    Ellmer, what would the rough cost of a concrete structure 500ft diameter, reenforced, 150 to 200ft deep. Thickness ? to withstand 1 and half the time the pressure at 300ft.

    #15874
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Key to success is the dayly know how that allows to crank out cubic meter structure in a constant process without surprises.

    amen to that, dude

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #15872

    Sam7, what is the volume of the structure you have in mind in cubic meter?

    If you want to submerge the structure buoyancy has to be neutral (plus minus ballast and installations) – means in global figures the weight of the structure = displacement of the structure = volume of the structure.

    Means you have roughly to calculate concrete construction (take numbers from highrise building) at local cost + drydock + workhours and equipment to put the concrete in place. Global numbers for land based construction taken from your area will fit quite well. What costs you more on logistics to display on the water, you safe on cost of the building lot and foundations.

    Here in Colombia with the local labor, material, and general costs, we have successfully done pilot projects at 331 Euro per ton of displacement. We anounced that figure and we finished within that Budget frame.

    Key to success is the dayly know how that allows to crank out cubic meter structure in a constant process without surprises.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #15900
    Avatar of Sam7
    Sam7
    Participant

    Ellmer, Yes,the unit is submerged/anchored to ocean floor. Use this cooler tower design for range of monetary purposes. (100m diameterx400ft tall). There would be a floor structure support every fifty feet, not worried about the top structure at water line yet. Needs to safetly compliment the pressures at 500ft, at sea bottom? Could the unit be built at sea with a cargo ship or must be piece built then assembled at sea? I am very interested in your underwater living ideas that you pictured in earlier posts. Have more questions/ideas, but not sure of the intelectual rights of this site? I know about building houses, but under water structures I have not learned yet. I asked another question,if you no the answer, on the” electricty” topic/forum. I will ask again, if you do not answer it there. More thoughts to come. No hurry.

    Other note, did the new trade agreement effect your business? Is your business in building concrete structures?

    #15903

    sam7, a 100m diameter structure can not be built anywhere else than at sea. There is no drydock or slipway on the planet to handle and launch such a structure after being built on land. To get a general picture how such a building site must be set up take a look at the Rion-Antirion Bridge Pylon building process, the Ekofisk storage tank building site, condeep building sites for the North sea oil industry, and the building of the Nkossa barge, the Valliant yetti and the Monaco floating Breakwater.

    There is no doubth that a tubular concrete structure can be submerged to 350m (Troll A has performed that) – studies show that the implosion depth is at about 1400m for still positive buoyant tubular structures.

    A good place to start your investigation is this site that gives a overview of tubular oceanic concrete structure studies and projects (here).

    Threads that contain interesting info on this field:

    Nkossa

    Modular Island Design

    Info and discussion by topic:

    Adriatic LNG / floating concrete structures / build south america / module standardisation / light inside / The first Seasteading Solutions / Floating marina development / Houseboats lagoon design / module size / minimum size / growth rate / foto update / testing out / Beakwater design-U shape / Building small start up units key / submerged vs surface float / grid platfroms / lack of concrete ships / Structure building cost compare / multihull flat float / bubble living space / competivity for seasteaders / economy on the oceans whales / CDI glomar beaufort / floating concrete structures business deep water access / module size sweetspots / hardening houseboats ring structures / Monaco Breakwater / loose raft up marina / connections / breakwater / breakwater rethink / structure cost / small concrete shell seastead / Evolution after Nkossa / concrete flat raft mastering high seas / industry float out / keep simple / connections / station keeping / wind profile / Plate Basics / Mobile Marina Seastead Hybrid / submerged / plate rol models / transparency / fishfarming / sub connect /Submerged living space exists / ean-capeable-living-space-bubble#comment-13879">Avoid wave hazards / Rion-Antirion Pylon / Ecofisk Tank / avoid surface /stationary submerged structures / minimum budget for a project / start seasteading issues / pilot project implementation / submerged seastead design/ facility cost / start up sizes / spiral island / flat raft sea behavior / floating marina development / start near city center / float and business / where seasteading application stands / venture capital handling / no second life for steel ships / concrete structures at sea / do business / minimum starting unit / finance group dynamics / funding model incorporate 5000/month / moving heavy structures / avoid third party / magellan network / project stoppers minor issues / blending in to local practice / floating culture and lifesyle / steer a small project trough starting phase / discussion is over testing is up / minimum start up site key west / pilot project log float / hardening housboat structures / project group vs single investor / enclose living space in a economic way practical test / general design aproach testing out / freeboard height of a plate seastead / hurricane strategy / catamaran floating structure / cost of building and floating out 20m structures / testrun a 20m cube / existing ship size floating resort in steel /

    My general idea of how seasteading will come into existence is that it will develop along the following axes:

    The catamaran float / The plate float out / The real estate squaremeter deal / The Captain Nemo float out / The bubble hotel / The current turbine / Breakwater lagoon marina / Oceanic port city design /

    Discussion forums focusing on the above development axes are ( here )

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #15946
    Avatar of Sam7
    Sam7
    Participant

    Ellmer, reading of the idea of seasteading as expressed in these forums, unless you have a sorce of sustaining income to survive, you need to work for the income needed to support your realestate/regular joe steading investment. If you are a regular joe steader at sea, would you not have a job at sea to be cost efective? As mentioned before ,unless your are wealthy set, average joe still needs a sorce of income. So, are the steading/realestate units for the wealthy or average joe’s with minimum income? Trying to question this out for an understanding of this solo steading idea? It would seem a larger scale unit aligned with business ideas for income would sell better? Living/resort designs with business designs together, other than an oil rig.

    How much green energy would have to be produced from one plant design to catch the attention of investers? I was guessing 20,000 to 30,00 megawatts . One plant could even supply New York or some major city with the interest. Could the excess be sold inland with out being over taxed to make a nice profit? 50 to 100 miles out, would the plant still be under certain regulations? Not only would steaders have a job, a place to live,time share,they would start something new for living and working at sea. I like the underwater desings/living/exploring/farming/mining,etc.. Wish more were onboard for those thoughts.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 48 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.



Posted on at

Categories:

Written by

Blog/Newsletter

Donate