Patent and copyright protection

[Wayne-GramlichSubscriber]

I also doubt that a shipyard that just built what the customer’s blueprints said to could get in trouble for patent infringment. Probably just the owner of the ship. But if the owner is off in international waters as soon as the seastead is finished they probably won’t get in trouble either.

Waiting until the seastead is floating in international waters would be stupid. I doubt any corporation that wanted to prevent an illegal patent infringement would wait until seastead was finished.

How do we resolved these doubts? I am not an intellectual property lawyer and I really doubt that you are one either. Well we could ask an international patent attorney, but they tend to charge a lot of money for their time and opinions.

[vincecateSubscriber]

This paper about patents and ships/shipyards is interesting:

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/maritime/maritime_industrial/doc/Shipbuilding_IPR_Study.pdf

Seems that ships with patent infringments are explicitly given a pass. So not only do I not have to worry about stepping foot on the Azores, seem under international convention they won’t even trouble my ship. Only possible trouble is if someone knew my ship was going to infringe while it was under construction, but with a remote and quiet shipyard quickly building a small ship I don’t really think there is much chance.

“The use of any invention in any vessel, aircraft or vehicle of any country which affords
similar privileges to vessels, aircraft or vehicles of the United States, entering the United
States temporarily or accidentally, shall not constitute infringement of any patent, if the
invention is used exclusively for the needs of the vessel, aircraft or vehicle and is not
offered for sale”.

And also:

“Patents: Patented Devices Forming Part of Vessels, Aircraft, or Land Vehicles
In any country of the Union the following shall not be considered as infringements of the
rights of a patentee:
(i) the use on board vessels of other countries of the Union of devices forming the
subject of his patent in the body of the vessel, in the machinery, tackle, gear and other
accessories, when such vessels temporarily or accidentally enter the waters of the said
country, provided that such devices are used there exclusively for the needs of the
vessel;
(ii) the use of devices forming the subject of the patent in the construction or operation
of aircraft or land vehicles of other countries of the Union, or of accessories of such
aircraft or land vehicles, when those aircraft or land vehicles temporarily or accidentally
enter the said country.”

[vincecateSubscriber]

“Article 5ter Paris Convention demonstrates a concern to leave the channels of
international commerce free from the burdens that would result if vessels had to conform
to the patent laws of all nations that the vessel or vehicle visits during its lifetime. Different
inventions are likely to be patented in different countries, and the same invention may be
patented by different parties in different countries. Article 5ter Paris Convention places
foreign-owned means of transport beyond the reach of domestic patentees’ exclusive
rights. This prevents the international traffic of goods and persons from being
obstructed by seizures at the borders and other measures.”

[vincecateSubscriber]

I think if we flag our seasteads with some country that is part of this agreement that we don’t have to worry about patents outside of the country our seastead is built in (and maybe not even there). There are a number of countries with shipyards where, in the unlikely event that you are caught, the fees for violating patents are very small.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxp_5_ter.htm

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxp.htm

Again, I don’t think patents are worth the trouble for seasteaders to get. And I don’t think the patents of others can trouble us much.

I don’t really expect to violate any patents anyway. Main patented things I am interested in is coatings to protect steel, motors, solar panels, etc. These are things I clearly just want to buy anyway.

If someone claims to have a patent for a wheel on its side (tension circle) I will just laugh and say I am sure the patent on the wheel has expired.

[Wayne-GramlichSubscriber]

TSI will obey US laws. Period.

If other people want to build a seastead and try to avoid paying patent royalties, that is their issue, not mine.

If TSI engages a shipyard to build a seastead without paying any relevant patent royalties, I’ll resign from the TSI board immediately.

[scrag_10Subscriber]

I would suggest leaving it under the public domain, making the possiblilty of wide spread use as high as possible.

[CrosiarCMSubscriber]

I would suggest a seperate not-for-profit organization be setup for actual construction or related business. You don’t get a tax deduction, but any/all revenue generated would go back into projects for seasteading. The non-profit should be saved for research, grants and that type of activity.

You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

[CrosiarCMSubscriber]

Is it really the plan of TSI to engage a shipyard? Sorry, i don’t know much about your non-profit status, but I would be very surprised if that would even be allowed. I certainly would not suggest that TSI violate ANY law as a U.S. based corporation. I might joke about it, but that would be suicide. That’s why I would think that TSI would remain a research & development organization. What other people do with the R & D is up to them, unless TSI is engaged with them in some way.

What does the corporate charter state as the purpose of the organization? Will all of the products of TSI be released under an “Open source” type of license? If so, what license will you use?

You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

[CrosiarCMSubscriber]

I would suggest a seperate not-for-profit organization be setup for actual construction or related business. You don’t get a tax deduction, but any/all revenue generated would go back into projects for seasteading. The non-profit should be saved for research, development, grants and that type of activity.

You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

[Wayne-GramlichSubscriber]

The primary charter of TSI is research and development, in addition to community building.

We are trying to get several seastead designs published. We can not guarantee that those designs will not infringe on some patents in some countries. If a design infringes upon a patent, the person trying to build the design has the option of obtaining a license from the patent holder or building the structure in some other country where the patent is not honored.

TSI will probably attempt to get one of each design constructed to demonstrate feasibility. After that, a free and open marketplace can compete to construct the structures at the lowest cost and highest quality.

[Wayne-GramlichSubscriber]

Starting up a for profit company to build these structures is the long term plan.

[CrosiarCMSubscriber]

Ok, that is in line with what I expected. But will you release under an Open Source license, and if so, which?

I’m asking because I have specific volunteer projects I want to do, and I want to be sure if I donate them and my efforts to this organization they will stay open.

What I am looking for is a page that states your organizations goals and principals in general (Commitment to openness, will not patent others ideas unless given permission to do so, will make any patents generated available at $x, not violating laws, etc) and a legal agreement given by TSI that all material contributions will be kept open under xyz license or any other compatible license.

I think if you are going to get SERIOUS contributions, you must assure those given them how they will be used to further your goals and objectives.

You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

[vincecateSubscriber]

Even if your seastead/ship violates a patent in some country you will not get in trouble if you visit there:

“Article 5ter Paris Convention demonstrates a concern to leave the channels of international commerce free from the burdens that would result if vessels had to conform to the patent laws of all nations that the vessel or vehicle visits during its lifetime. Different inventions are likely to be patented in different countries, and the same invention may be patented by different parties in different countries. Article 5ter Paris Convention places foreign-owned means of transport beyond the reach of domestic patentees’ exclusive rights. This prevents the international traffic of goods and persons from being obstructed by seizures at the borders and other measures.”

http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Patents
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/maritime/maritime_industrial/doc/Shipbuilding_IPR_Study.pdf
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxp_5_ter.htm

My plan is to migrate around, visiting different islands throughout the year. So I don’t think I will ever have any trouble with patents. If you park a resort seastead inside the US EEZ you might need to be more worried about patents. Something that looked like an oil platform might not be counted as a “means of transportation” if it was parked most of the time, even if it could move.

[Christian-SiegertSubscriber]

You as a buyer of a seastead do not have to care about patent infringements.

You as a manufacturer of a seastead have to care about patent infringements. Patents filed in a country are only protecting the product in that country. You have to file a patent for every country you want to protect your product in.

This is no legal advice.

[vincecateSubscriber]

>You as a manufacturer of a seastead have to care about patent infringements. Patents filed in a country are only
>protecting the product in that country. You have to file a patent for every country you want to protect your product in.

The protection does not apply to visiting ships, even if I manufacture my own. So for those of us interested in seasteads that are moving around, patents could only be an issue where we make the seastead. But if we make it in the open ocean even that is not an issue. So in the long run, when we are manufacturing seasteads at sea, I don’t think patents will matter to seasteaders, at least as far as the seasteads themselves.

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