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Patent and copyright protection

Home Forums Archive TSI Research Patent and copyright protection

This topic contains 36 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Carl-Pålsson Carl-Pålsson 4 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 37 total)
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  • #3387
    Avatar of Wayne-Gramlich
    Wayne-Gramlich
    Participant

    I also doubt that a shipyard that just built what the customer’s blueprints said to could get in trouble for patent infringment. Probably just the owner of the ship. But if the owner is off in international waters as soon as the seastead is finished they probably won’t get in trouble either.

    Waiting until the seastead is floating in international waters would be stupid. I doubt any corporation that wanted to prevent an illegal patent infringement would wait until seastead was finished.

    How do we resolved these doubts? I am not an intellectual property lawyer and I really doubt that you are one either. Well we could ask an international patent attorney, but they tend to charge a lot of money for their time and opinions.

    #3388
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    This paper about patents and ships/shipyards is interesting:

    http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/maritime/maritime_industrial/doc/Shipbuilding_IPR_Study.pdf

    Seems that ships with patent infringments are explicitly given a pass. So not only do I not have to worry about stepping foot on the Azores, seem under international convention they won’t even trouble my ship. Only possible trouble is if someone knew my ship was going to infringe while it was under construction, but with a remote and quiet shipyard quickly building a small ship I don’t really think there is much chance.

    “The use of any invention in any vessel, aircraft or vehicle of any country which affords
    similar privileges to vessels, aircraft or vehicles of the United States, entering the United
    States temporarily or accidentally, shall not constitute infringement of any patent, if the
    invention is used exclusively for the needs of the vessel, aircraft or vehicle and is not
    offered for sale”.

    And also:

    “Patents: Patented Devices Forming Part of Vessels, Aircraft, or Land Vehicles
    In any country of the Union the following shall not be considered as infringements of the
    rights of a patentee:
    (i) the use on board vessels of other countries of the Union of devices forming the
    subject of his patent in the body of the vessel, in the machinery, tackle, gear and other
    accessories, when such vessels temporarily or accidentally enter the waters of the said
    country, provided that such devices are used there exclusively for the needs of the
    vessel;
    (ii) the use of devices forming the subject of the patent in the construction or operation
    of aircraft or land vehicles of other countries of the Union, or of accessories of such
    aircraft or land vehicles, when those aircraft or land vehicles temporarily or accidentally
    enter the said country.”

    #3389
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    “Article 5ter Paris Convention demonstrates a concern to leave the channels of
    international commerce free from the burdens that would result if vessels had to conform
    to the patent laws of all nations that the vessel or vehicle visits during its lifetime. Different
    inventions are likely to be patented in different countries, and the same invention may be
    patented by different parties in different countries. Article 5ter Paris Convention places
    foreign-owned means of transport beyond the reach of domestic patentees’ exclusive
    rights. This prevents the international traffic of goods and persons from being
    obstructed by seizures at the borders and other measures.”

    #3392
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    I think if we flag our seasteads with some country that is part of this agreement that we don’t have to worry about patents outside of the country our seastead is built in (and maybe not even there). There are a number of countries with shipyards where, in the unlikely event that you are caught, the fees for violating patents are very small.

    http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxp_5_ter.htm

    http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxp.htm

    Again, I don’t think patents are worth the trouble for seasteaders to get. And I don’t think the patents of others can trouble us much.

    I don’t really expect to violate any patents anyway. Main patented things I am interested in is coatings to protect steel, motors, solar panels, etc. These are things I clearly just want to buy anyway.

    If someone claims to have a patent for a wheel on its side (tension circle) I will just laugh and say I am sure the patent on the wheel has expired.

    #3397
    Avatar of Wayne-Gramlich
    Wayne-Gramlich
    Participant

    TSI will obey US laws. Period.

    If other people want to build a seastead and try to avoid paying patent royalties, that is their issue, not mine.

    If TSI engages a shipyard to build a seastead without paying any relevant patent royalties, I’ll resign from the TSI board immediately.

    #3600
    Avatar of scrag_10
    scrag_10
    Participant

    I would suggest leaving it under the public domain, making the possiblilty of wide spread use as high as possible.

    #4112
    Avatar of CrosiarCM
    CrosiarCM
    Participant

    I would suggest a seperate not-for-profit organization be setup for actual construction or related business. You don’t get a tax deduction, but any/all revenue generated would go back into projects for seasteading. The non-profit should be saved for research, grants and that type of activity.

    You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

    #4113
    Avatar of CrosiarCM
    CrosiarCM
    Participant

    Is it really the plan of TSI to engage a shipyard? Sorry, i don’t know much about your non-profit status, but I would be very surprised if that would even be allowed. I certainly would not suggest that TSI violate ANY law as a U.S. based corporation. I might joke about it, but that would be suicide. That’s why I would think that TSI would remain a research & development organization. What other people do with the R & D is up to them, unless TSI is engaged with them in some way.

    What does the corporate charter state as the purpose of the organization? Will all of the products of TSI be released under an “Open source” type of license? If so, what license will you use?

    You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

    #4114
    Avatar of CrosiarCM
    CrosiarCM
    Participant

    I would suggest a seperate not-for-profit organization be setup for actual construction or related business. You don’t get a tax deduction, but any/all revenue generated would go back into projects for seasteading. The non-profit should be saved for research, development, grants and that type of activity.

    You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

    #4116
    Avatar of Wayne-Gramlich
    Wayne-Gramlich
    Participant

    The primary charter of TSI is research and development, in addition to community building.

    We are trying to get several seastead designs published. We can not guarantee that those designs will not infringe on some patents in some countries. If a design infringes upon a patent, the person trying to build the design has the option of obtaining a license from the patent holder or building the structure in some other country where the patent is not honored.

    TSI will probably attempt to get one of each design constructed to demonstrate feasibility. After that, a free and open marketplace can compete to construct the structures at the lowest cost and highest quality.

    #4117
    Avatar of Wayne-Gramlich
    Wayne-Gramlich
    Participant

    Starting up a for profit company to build these structures is the long term plan.

    #4119
    Avatar of CrosiarCM
    CrosiarCM
    Participant

    Ok, that is in line with what I expected. But will you release under an Open Source license, and if so, which?

    I’m asking because I have specific volunteer projects I want to do, and I want to be sure if I donate them and my efforts to this organization they will stay open.

    What I am looking for is a page that states your organizations goals and principals in general (Commitment to openness, will not patent others ideas unless given permission to do so, will make any patents generated available at $x, not violating laws, etc) and a legal agreement given by TSI that all material contributions will be kept open under xyz license or any other compatible license.

    I think if you are going to get SERIOUS contributions, you must assure those given them how they will be used to further your goals and objectives.

    You may get what you want, but will you want what you get?

    #4120
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    Even if your seastead/ship violates a patent in some country you will not get in trouble if you visit there:

    “Article 5ter Paris Convention demonstrates a concern to leave the channels of international commerce free from the burdens that would result if vessels had to conform to the patent laws of all nations that the vessel or vehicle visits during its lifetime. Different inventions are likely to be patented in different countries, and the same invention may be patented by different parties in different countries. Article 5ter Paris Convention places foreign-owned means of transport beyond the reach of domestic patentees’ exclusive rights. This prevents the international traffic of goods and persons from being obstructed by seizures at the borders and other measures.”

    http://wiki.seasteading.org/index.php/Patents
    http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/maritime/maritime_industrial/doc/Shipbuilding_IPR_Study.pdf
    http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxp_5_ter.htm

    My plan is to migrate around, visiting different islands throughout the year. So I don’t think I will ever have any trouble with patents. If you park a resort seastead inside the US EEZ you might need to be more worried about patents. Something that looked like an oil platform might not be counted as a “means of transportation” if it was parked most of the time, even if it could move.

    #4121
    Avatar of Christian-Siegert
    Christian-Siegert
    Participant

    You as a buyer of a seastead do not have to care about patent infringements.

    You as a manufacturer of a seastead have to care about patent infringements. Patents filed in a country are only protecting the product in that country. You have to file a patent for every country you want to protect your product in.

    This is no legal advice.

    #4122
    Avatar of vincecate
    vincecate
    Participant

    >You as a manufacturer of a seastead have to care about patent infringements. Patents filed in a country are only
    >protecting the product in that country. You have to file a patent for every country you want to protect your product in.

    The protection does not apply to visiting ships, even if I manufacture my own. So for those of us interested in seasteads that are moving around, patents could only be an issue where we make the seastead. But if we make it in the open ocean even that is not an issue. So in the long run, when we are manufacturing seasteads at sea, I don’t think patents will matter to seasteaders, at least as far as the seasteads themselves.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 37 total)

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