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Offshoring the Megatrend of the Century

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This topic contains 32 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ellmer - http://yook3.com ellmer – http://yook3.com 8 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 33 total)
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  • #22856

    going offshore
    We live in a world where half of all money flow is offshore already, tycoons like Abramovic and Branson are “offshoring” their private life to islands and megayachts, Google is offshoring data centers to get rid of state interference in their business, it can easyly be predicted that this trend will not stop until at the end all business, all money, all data, will be “taken out of interference” of politics and states and in one form or another be “offshored” and put to “privacy” status.

    The whole idea of offshoring has many times been discredited as a “safe haven for criminal activity” – but this is mere “negative propaganda” of the proponents of the nanny, big brother, and control state.

    Privacy is a basic right and going off radar is just implementing your rights in the real world.

    It is not even new – the people who went to the new world as pioneers “offshored” their religion and business from interference in Europe. Today there is no land left to do that – for going off radar you best go oceanic technology makes it feasible.

    Read more here why going offshore is big business: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/

    Read more about megayachts the ultimate tool to “offshore” your life and business headquarters: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43942461/the-captain-nemo-float-out-seasteading/

    Seasteading: offshore cities, governments, social groups, political sistems: http://www.seasteading.org/about/visionstrategy/

    While computers technology allow governments to radar, control, and interfere in everything, “offshoring” allows to put a counterweight and put privacy “to rule again”. – This makes offshoring the megatrend of the century.

    http://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian

    “Politics is about interfering with other people’s lives without their consent.” – Peter Thiel

    #22857
    Profile photo of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    ellmer

    We live in a world where half of all money flow is offshore already, tycoons like Abramovic and Branson are “offshoring” their private life to islands and megayachts, Google is offshoring data centers to get rid of state interference in their business

    How about this:
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/global-tax-avoidance/5146462


    it can easyly be predicted that this trend will not stop until at the end all business, all money, all data, will be “taken out of interference” of politics and states and in one form or another be “offshored” and put to “privacy” status.

    You speak about offshores, but offshores do have jurisdiction. Switzerland had financial privacy, but now it’s conquered by major powers. Moreover, if you come to your Swiss offshore and say that Assad is a bad person, you will be arrested. It’s up to 3 years of jail in Switzerland for that, good luck with “non-interference”.


    Privacy is a basic right and going off radar is just implementing your rights in the real world.

    In real world there are no rights; rights are merely human constructs. What seems right to you, isn’t always right for another person.

    #22860

    Yes ancient – that is the eternal struggle of the white forces against the black forces, one side would like to whipe out privacy and control, spy, and redtape, literally everything, cutting down any civil right that stands in the way including presumption of innocence etc… for the sake of terrorist hunting and blablabla… The other side would go for complet privacy and cero interference in personal business internet, finance transaction and go including to the extreme to declare weed and a blowjob in the oval office innocent and private…. What is the white side and what the black side depends entirely on your preference view angle and what side you choose.

    If you choose a neutral point the fact is:
    The match white forces against black forces is 50/50 half of the worlds capital is flowing offshore outside of control right now. Swizerland installs in the gray zone for national benefit what concerns money and banks. So at the end it burns down to philosopy and how gray is too gray for you personally – or do you prefere a state buerocrate to decide that for you and lead you down “the good path” with scantling rules for any detail to keep the devil in the box.

    I agree that there is no right except the one you are willing to defend. My personal impression is that a lot of people nowdays are willing to defend their “privacy and non interference rights” – exactly this makes offshoring a megatrend. http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56691920/offshoring-the-megatrend-of-the-century/

    Like always in life for everybody never anything is perfect and the interference freedom is always gradual. It can only be a 10 on a submarine http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43942461/the-captain-nemo-float-out-seasteading/ or in outer space. Read more about the interference freedom scale: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56351996/business-and-third-party-interference-freedom/

    The point is people are activly looking for “interference free spaces” in business and when choosing a home, a nationality, a flag of convenience for a yacht…

    Even a stationary ocean sphere http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56239662/oceanic-concrete-sphere-habitat/ outside EEZ would include the possibility to be spotted and interfered some day somehow. Only if you add mobility and invisibility (for all practical means). The interference freedom closes in to 10.

    #22861
    Profile photo of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    Yes ancient – that is the eternal struggle of the white forces against the black forces

    I disagree with this interpretation. The world isn’t black and white. Discussing things in black/white terms only leads to unnecessary conflicts.


    The match white forces against black forces is 50/50 half of the worlds capital is flowing offshore outside of control right now.

    It’s not outside of control, it’s possible because those in power receive their share from it. But the trend for the last few years is that of fighting offshores. Offshores are a thing of the past and not future, the future belongs to cryptocurrencies.


    It can only be a 10 on a submarine or in outer space.

    I don’t see how it is possible on submarine. What stops countries from meddling with the submarine? Absolutely nothing.


    Even a stationary ocean sphere outside EEZ would include the possibility to be spotted and interfered some day somehow. Only if you add mobility and invisibility (for all practical means). The interference freedom closes in to 10.

    It’s possible right here right now to interfere with the submarine. The major powers won’t back up and watch how someone creates a dangerous structure in their vicinity. The world is a global village for a very long time, globalization is nothing new, with telegraph you could get message from India to US in several minutes. The vision of ocean as a place without interference wasn’t really viable even in Jules Verne time. He had to place Nemo on the submarine because already by then ocean surface was under state control. It happened when they ousted pirates. By now even underwater is under state control and it’s not possible to have non-interference without having sovereignty.


    exactly this makes offshoring a megatrend.

    Offshore being trend is really old. There is a great example: The Island of Doctor Moreau by Wells. Now it’s just not viable, that’s all. Nemo and Moreau are 19th century themes, not 21st century.

    #22862
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    ellmer

    A 10 on the interference freedom scale could be a double-edged sword…While favorable in terms of self-governance, freedom, human rights, etc. the price of living and doing business 200, 400 or 1000 nm offshore will be high. Hawaii is a perfect example. 95% of everything there has to be shipped in and everything produced there has to be shipped out. I was there in 2008 during the recession and it was bad, since their tourism industry came to a standstill. A seastead will be just the same. Any disruption in its main industry can be catastrophic. Business diversification, achieving a high degree of self-sufficiency and saving resources (cash, food, fuel to start) should be a priority for any seasteading oriented venture, in my opinion.

    “Offshoring” has many advantages, indeed, but it won’t come cheap.

    #22863
    Profile photo of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    OCEANOPOLIS

    A 10 on the interference freedom scale could be a double-edged sword…

    But what is 10? Is it absolute dictatorship? If a human is alone, I agree, it’s possible to have 10 (because most are dictators to themselves). As soon as there’s another person with you, 10 is possible only if the other person is a total slave.

    #22864
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    The proposed scale was for business freedom interference, I guess…But isn’t any business a dictatorship in itself? When you are at work you are a slave…you have to do what you’ve been told and train or you’ll get fired.

    #22865
    Profile photo of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    OCEANOPOLIS

    The proposed scale was for business freedom interference, I guess…But isn’t any business a dictatorship in itself? When you are at work you are a slave…you have to do what you’ve been told and train or you’ll get fired.

    Business isn’t a dictatorship because it’s usually voluntary. Most people aren’t forced to work for a particular company or a person. So if we think of 10 as a measure of business freedom, this means that anyone who is inside the 10 space is forced to be a slave for the space master. Because refusing to do business will drop the number below 10.

    #22866
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    LOL, Ancient.

    Then dictatorships are “involuntary” ? :) Most people aren’t force to work but most people have to work :)

    #22870
    Profile photo of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    Work is an integral part of life. It’s a law of nature due to thermodynamics. If you don’t do anything, your entropy will increase. It doesn’t matter if you work for yourself or for employer, it’s still work with the same properties of “do or die”.

    #22871

    Guys let me put it that way – “offshoring” as quest for interference and ruling free space is nothing new – people always have been looking out for 9.9 interference free spaces far from ruling to “live their lifes according to their own codes”. It is part of the human nature. Just think the historic example of a pirate ship – it is a interference free space highly mobile, with a bunch of people on it every man has a vote, and a weapon to enforce it. Captain is the fittest (on democratic vote and consient) if you have 2 parties in disconsient you have mutiny (states call it civil war). It is not by coincidence that pirate agreements where model for the US constitution – it is just THE model cell for base democracy with all the positive and negative aspects it brings up. If this is “dictatorship of the fittest” or “pure base democracy at work” depends on the view angle you choose.

    The fact remains that a interference free space is a “quality on its own” that is “unpolitical in its nature” and can be used for good or bad as any tool and space in human history. If you ask for a prediction “how it will be used” the most intelligent answer is like always “for both”. Has always been so will always be so.

    The key is in what Peter Thiel says:
    “I believe that politics is way too intense. That’s why I’m a libertarian. Politics gets people angry, destroys relationships, and polarizes peoples’ vision: the world is us versus them; good people versus the other. Politics is about interfering with other people’s lives without their consent. That’s probably why, in the past, libertarians have made little progress in the political sphere. Thus, I advocate focusing energy elsewhere, onto peaceful projects that some consider utopian.”

    Peter Thiel

    As Michael Strong writes in his new book Be The Solution, we should “Criticize By Creating.”

    Not try to predict things and forbid ways before even trying it. Create interference free spaces for experimentation is at the heart of Seasteading.

    The point of the “offshoring debate” is to make clear that the “quest for interference freedom” is not only a theme for outlaws and pirates, it is also a “mainstream thing” people in ties with political influence and money power behind them, steering multinational companies, are into that business. – it will certainly not be a movement that will be taken on a “short line” by the nanny state.

    What i suggest is to “offer a good product” to that market on many levels, free trade zones, asset movement sistems like paypal and bitcoin, yachts that travel worldwide and report to no king – independent islands – floating free cities – ocean spheres, technology enables a new generation of interference free spaces we are just at the beginning of it.

    Nobody will “put a ruling” on that – it is already happening on large scale far outside what any state power can interfere. Some of us are aware of that and embrace the trend (like the seasteading movement), some oppose, but staying realistic – like any technology leap in human history – it is happening anyhow.

    Read more about why going oceanic is the next big thing to come.
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/

    Read more why “offshoring” is the megatrend of the century.
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56691920/offshoring-the-megatrend-of-the-century/

    Read more about the 1-10 interference freedom scale.
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56351996/business-and-third-party-interference-freedom/

    Read more about being part of this trend.
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t49529137/corporate-sponsoring-foothold-in-ocean-colonization/

    #22873
    Profile photo of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    ellmer

    people always have been looking out for 9.9 interference free spaces far from ruling to “live their lifes according to their own codes”. It is part of the human nature. Just think the historic example of a pirate ship – it is a interference free space highly mobile, with a bunch of people on it every man has a vote

    If they have a right of vote, it’s not 9.9. You are talking as if state and pirate captain are different entities; they’re not. There’s no difference in interference from state, from pirate captain or from ordinary pirates. A pirate on land has interference from state and citizens; a pirate on pirate ship has interference from pirate captain and other pirates.


    The fact remains that a interference free space is a “quality on its own” that is “unpolitical in its nature” and can be used for good or bad as any tool and space in human history.

    Your interference free space is incompatible with freedom of several humans in one location. There are only 2 ways for 9.9 space, either you are an absolute dictator, or you are alone. Otherwise, you have to compromise, and it’s not 9.9 space anymore.


    That’s probably why, in the past, libertarians have made little progress in the political sphere.

    Of course, they made little progress. Not much people like dictators or being alone.


    The point of the “offshoring debate” is to make clear that the “quest for interference freedom” is not only a theme for outlaws and pirates, it is also a “mainstream thing” people in ties with political influence and money power behind them, steering multinational companies, are into that business.

    If it’s a “mainstream thing”, then show me at least 1 example of space on Earth that does not have interference and simultaneously doesn’t have jurisdiction.


    What i suggest is to “offer a good product” to that market on many levels, free trade zones, asset movement sistems like paypal and bitcoin, yachts that travel worldwide and report to no king – independent islands – floating free cities – ocean spheres, technology enables a new generation of interference free spaces we are just at the beginning of it.

    Major powers already fight Bitcoin. Why would they let your “good product” be?
    I’ve already commented on Nemo and Moreau, it’s science fiction of 19th century, in 21st century real world there’s no non-interference place on Earth that doesn’t have jurisdiction and it’s practically impossible to construct one because states have high-tech means of interfering. Otherwise, I dare you: show me an example.


    Nobody will “put a ruling” on that – it is already happening on large scale far outside what any state power can interfere. Some of us are aware of that and embrace the trend (like the seasteading movement), some oppose, but staying realistic – like any technology leap in human history – it is happening anyhow.

    It happened on the pages of science fiction journals in 19th century. Nowadays, it’s not a trouble for the major powers to interfere with any point on Earth and do whatever they wish. You just repeat same arguments over and over again ignoring what I say and spamming links to your site. I guess it’s part of your SEO strategy.

    #22887

    I give you a historic example for a “interference free space” developing socially and business wise over centuries VENICE.
    Read more about Venice here: http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56710025/venice-italy-how-to-do-instructions-for-seasteading-from-his/
    Follow the discussion about the lessions of Venice in Seasteading here: http://www.seasteading.org/forum-list/topic/venice-italy-lessions-for-seasteading-from-history/

    #22891
    Profile photo of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    I give you a historic example for a “interference free space” developing socially and business wise over centuries VENICE.

    Maybe you will also propose riding on horses and sailing on wooden ships? In times of Venice Republic states couldn’t control all of the Earth. Now they can. And they will prevent unlawful formation of country.
    Anyway, it seems to me by non-interference you mean sovereignty. If so, the concrete sphere won’t be meddled with only if it’s recognized as state. Venice was recognized as state, it wasn’t some abstract non-interfered piece of space. It was a specific political institute. If states recognize the sphere, then it’s sovereign, if it’s not recognized, the sphere will be considered terrorist outpost, unrecognized state, freedom fighters stronghold, whatever.
    Otherwise, give differences between your term “non-interference” and common term “sovereignty”.

    #22900

    No by “non interference” i do not mean “sovereignty” i mean “not meddle with people’s private business” i mean “privacy” i mean the implementation of the glorious right of self determination and the quest for freedom and happyness whatever a person understands as such. I think the whole idea of the need of a 10.000 page rulebook that only a lawyer can understand, needing to be written, and enforced, on a not consienting population is somewhat sick. I also think that the idea that one person should be King over another and subdue that person is sick and wrong. Therefore i think that “ruling” in all fields should be developed on the base of consent. This is the base idea of democracy. I spot that in our world this democratic base idea is lost in the sea of “ruling producing buerocrats, politicians seeking lobby benefits, and enforcement agencies going wild on many levels” this whole sistem does not ask for the consient of the citicen anymore – as they should. Therefore the citicen has a democratic right to put a counterweight – to put privacy and respect in place again. This includes the right step out of non consented rule sets. The only way to do that in a civilized and legal way is “offshoring” in its widest sense, you accomodate citicenship, residency, bank account, production sites, in the right way and you are subdued by no king “de facto” as you are “out of jurisdiction for every interferer”. On a ship with a flag of convenience you still might apply to the rule set of the island nation of bunga bunga, – on paper – but bunga bunga has a agreement with all ships to “not interfere” in exchange to a moderate fee which can be considered a “consented tax” for the service of keeping interferers out of your hair. Offshoring is the ARTFORM of balancing and neutralizing the powers that try to interfere and subdue your life – as long as individuals seek self determination and privacy in a ruling infested “red taping world” – offshoring will stay megatrend.

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