Oceanstead Development International (OSDI)
December 13, 2009 at 2:44 pm #8890OCEANOPOLIS wrote:
I did take a very close look @ the WW design that you presented at the conference. I think you have some structural weakness in the spars and the floats (the bouys).
The joints can flex, so neither the joints nor the beams need to be really strong (like you have in your images). The forces on the legs are just compression. The legs are held in position by cables. The key to the WaterWalker idea is that something really wide can be built without crazy strong stuff using a sort of tensegrity design.
The floats are on cables, so I can’t even imagine what structural weakness you think you see. There are really big commercial floats used for things like morings for really big ships. They have to be strong enough to float a really big chain going to the ocean floor in 100 foot of water or so. So I can buy 3 floats that are plenty big enough for the first villa size seastead I am thinking of.
The structure for the seastead model that was 30 foot diagonal and big enough to hold 3 guys could fold up and go on the roof of my Explorer. It really is big, light, cheap, and yet strong enough. Folding is nice for models too. It really works.
Another fun thing about the design is that the floats can move independant from the structure. So only part of the wave motion is really transmitted to the main structure.
Video is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4icNUDqNIg
— VinceDecember 13, 2009 at 3:07 pm #8891
Ocean–My wife and I will be sailing the farm down to the Keys in mid-Spring 2010. I’ll follow this thread and see where this idea is at that point. But we would be willing to work on the project. We’re both tech writers; I’m also an electronics tech and pretty good with wiring as well.
Wohl–The West Marine idea is good, too; might be able to get a big discount for volume. Their SE Regional Manager is currently tied to the same dock we are; I’ll ask him about the art of the possible. But they do work with people on things like this.
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”December 13, 2009 at 8:19 pm #8892
I have to admit that I am a bit of a freak when it comes to seaworthiness, and tend to overbuild things,…:-). I dont know if you guys have the equivalent of the US Coast Guard in Anguila, but here in the US they will not pass the WW certification as you have presented, for a business. It would be a good idea to sit down w/your gov. “people” there and find out what the regulations are. You will be amazed how picky they are. We plan to do the same before starting building the MMK. It is mandatory here in US.
OctavianDecember 13, 2009 at 9:57 pm #8893OCEANOPOLIS wrote:
It would be a good idea to sit down w/your gov. “people” there and find out what the regulations are. You will be amazed how picky they are.
I have sat down with some of them. Just preliminary talks, so it is still early to say, but I think things will work out. Anguilla had their revolution in 1967 and has grown to a population of about 14,000. We don’t have anything near the volume of regulations the US has, with their much longer existance and far larger population. The small size also means there are a small number of people that have to sign off. And some of the people are people I know. Also, the potential for jobs and government income is more significant for such a small place (there is a 10% villa fee). So there are reasons they want it to work out. I think I will have a far easier time with regulations than people in the US will.
— VinceDecember 14, 2009 at 3:23 am #8896
Michael, you and your wife are welcomed! We will have some rewiring to do, so… you’re hired. Lets keep in touch.
OctavianDecember 14, 2009 at 3:33 am #8895
I didnt know Anguilla is so small!…Let us know how we can help you with your project. OSDI is now open for business
P.S. What do you know about the Prickly Pear Cays and the reef to the E of it? How about Dog Island?December 14, 2009 at 10:07 am #8897
It’s amazing how the whole thing seems to be coming together all across the globe at around the same time. Well, with the exception of Vince, who’s the real pioneer here *salute* GENESIS is hosting a little get-together on our farm tomorrow. We’ll try to take some pictures/videos and post them.
Good luck guys, let us know if there’s anything we can do from our end. Advice, technology, testing, funding.
King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.December 14, 2009 at 1:49 pm #8899
Michael and Wife
We would love to have a couple of seagypsies down. Anyone, espectially steaders, is welcome. People willing to work doubly so… LOL. I will buy the drinks after working hours (or serve them if the Tiki bar is stocked). Please elaborate on “tech writing”…
I too have followed your work… We will be in contact with you.
JohnathanDecember 14, 2009 at 2:12 pm #8900
I like this come together with yachts, barges, aquaculture units, on a specific location – this could develop into a critical mass for a permanent seasteading location without a “master plan” behind it – it just happens – like the fall of the Berlin Wall….December 14, 2009 at 10:41 pm #8901
Johnathan–by tech writing, I mean we write technical/operator manuals, electrical test procedures, software user manuals, whatever. If you need what you are doing documented, we can do that. As for the wiring, I’ve not yet got my ABYC Electrical certification; I was a Navy ET. But I have rewired cars and airplanes, installed avionics and marine electronics, and I’m in the process of rewiring my entire boat, meaning gutting the existing wiring 99% and replacing it from the batteries out. Already replaced the antique 120VAC shore power system with all new wiring, multiply redundant breakers, voltmeter, polarity warning, the works. And I’ve hand-built the 12VDC master control panel with voltmeter, ammeter, 15 fused switches plus a 3-way bilge pump switch; also in the process of replacing all the lighting, internal and external, with LEDs. The only holdup is money; marine-grade wire costs more per foot than a high-class hooker.
Shannon–As I said in our offsite email, it’ll be a couple of years before Sovereign is ready for a semicircumnavigation to Singapore. But we can cut our teeth in the Keys while we get ourselves and our boat really ready to go blue-water cruising, and help get another seasteading project off the ground. So to speak.
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”December 15, 2009 at 12:06 am #8902
…Was brought up on page 2. We use a composting toilet on our boat and it works fantastically well, just a minor cleaning process every month or so. On a larger scale, it could provide compost for decorative plants or even actual crops.
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”December 15, 2009 at 12:10 pm #8903
I understand that everything needs to be recycled on boats, and that human waste makes excellent fertilizer, but I just don’t think I can bring myself to eat crap-cultivated-crops. I’ll buy my fertilizer from the shore.
- NickDecember 15, 2009 at 2:10 pm #8904
I live on a tropical island with no income tax. Life is good. I have 4 boys. My oldest is 8. If I get onto a seastead by the time my oldest is 16 or so I am happy. I figure my crew should be a bit bigger before we shove off. So there is time to build up to it with something like this tourist villa idea. We can have fun with that for now. Slow incremental approach is fine. Not in a big hurry.
Probably I will work on government licenses next. After that is done I will look at how my finances are then. I might or might not be looking for funding at that point (could depend on the price of gold and silver then).
But even at this casual pace, I think I may be the first to really move onto a seastead. I think I have the cheapest seastead idea that can make money. So even if I need funding for the next step, I could probably get it. I still have not seen any video of any other models tested in waves, so I feel like I am years ahead.
— VinceDecember 16, 2009 at 2:10 pm #8906
Vince– Maybe you will be the first on a seastead… and OSDI is not trying to be the rabbit to your tortoise. When the time comes and you feel you are ready to take on guests, I would love to come out (or even before if you will have me/us). Did you recieve the Private communication I sent?
Micheal– Thank you for your explanation of “Tech writing”. One of the things that people will need are manuals and instructions for operating the systems on seasteads (livestock and food production/storage, waste management, navigation, repairs, maintenance ect ect) and anyone who develops these materials will very likely have a a job for decades writing and revising these manuals. Also, developing this sort of documentation will allow many to duplicate and improve any initial designs… What I would like to see is these distributed (one day… oh to that golden day in the future) to places of repression and social inequality to help these suffering masses of people see that there is hope, justice and freedom available to all mankind.
Theif– What do you think they use as fertilizer now? Only man made chemical products… and where did you think that they distilled these chemicals from anyway. Have you never driven out into the country during the spring and smelled/seen the manure being spread out on the fields before tilling and sewing of the land? Organic crops (all the rage these days) are only suppose to use organic materials to fertilize and prevent insect infestations. But even large scale agriculture use pig and cow shit as fertilizers (and a lot of the chemical fertilizers are derived from bat shit as it has incredibly high levels of nitrogen). The issue for seasteading (and humanity in general) is that human waste does not make good fertilizer in its natural state, due to the evolved and effecient nature of our digestive tracks, without processing. Even this processing only works for the semi-solid sewage sludge but the solids are still toxic and must be disposed of in a proper manner to avoid contamination of food and water supplys.
I know that I sometimes can be a bit abrasive… I do not mean it to be a slap in the face but we must face facts. Seasteading will not be an easy thing to accomplish. It will take time and effort. There will be blood, sweat and tears involved in this undertaking. We are after all talking about creating a new Exodus and no exodus in human history has gone off without a hitch. We will experience causualties, wounds, set backs, and the people in positions of authority the world over will be active in maintaining the status quo. But seasteading must happen and if we do it, we will be able to guide this movement in a direction the supports personal freedom, responsibility, and accountability. If we let the governments (or corporations) of the world manage this, they will just push established methods, ideologies, and “laws” out with them.
At least that is the way I see it.
JohnathanDecember 16, 2009 at 3:10 pm #8907
The question of cero waste is not only a question of personal taste.
Whenever you do a proyect that nobody else has done before what you fear is not LEGISLATION (there are simply no laws about it) you fear ADMINISTRATION .
For the guy in administration you spell PROBLEM he has to deal with, and what he wants most is to get you out of his hair, easiest way to achieve this, is to shut you down. – don’t give him a chance to do so due to “environmental concerns”. Don’t give him a chance to apply any prohibitive environmental, yachting, security, ect. – law against you.
Sometimes it might even be best not to announce too much what you are going to do, just to avoid that people have too much time to think about how to shut you down. (Listen Peter Thiel at the Seasteading conference – if we had announced Paypal – they would have shut us down…)
So check carefully what level of announcement – what speed of implementation – you select . Consider it a carefully timed dance with ADMINISTRATION to get your proyect trough and avoid “show stoppers”.
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