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Oceanic seafood production drifting fish cages

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This topic contains 39 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of spark spark 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 40 total)
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  • #22746
    Avatar of spark
    spark
    Participant

    CatOnTree;
    Hi
    Jules Verne: Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea

    #22747
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    I still want to know how to fasten things to cement float cells.

    #22748
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Oceanopolis : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=irrigation+2014+california+allocation

    Some farms will get 5% of their irrigation water for 2014, some farms have been told they will get NO irrigation water. But at least the city folks will be able to wash their cars. Even if there’s no food to buy. If the mature fruit and nut trees die, they’ll need to irrigate new trees for 10+ years to get production back to what it was. However, irrigating hay to sell to China is a booming business. Like viruses and bacteria. You know Miami gets water from reverse osmosis, because they cannot drill for any more fresh water, and California hasn’t caught on yet?

    #22749

    ocean sphere enriching the ocean
    Even if the world population would not grow – (and it will) the needs of this population will grow. Nobody is good with bycicle and a mao suit anymore nor can be restricted to such a lifstyle by any “politics” or “regulation” thinkable – new industries, cellphones, internet, pop up faster than you can follow. All this points to explosive increase in production sites, these sites need space and energy. All “not closed loop” activities that take something from nature, like fishing, hunting, agriculture, poluting industrial processes will disappear more quickly than anyone imagines due to more and more stringent ambient impact regulations. The ocean sphere production site takes over, what enters into that sphere is energy and raw materials what comes out is product – all other stuff will be recicled inside. Meat will be produced in cell culture, veggies in hydrophonics. Light will come from diode lamps not from the sun. Pesticides are obsolete as no pest can enter the sphere in first place. The sphere will be arranged in “dynamic geography” to interchange and trade with other spheres or nearby land cities. Far from having a negative impact on the ocean the sphere will create a “artificial reef ambient” enriching the ocean. The oceanic concrete sphere is the most efficient enclosure possible much more efficient than the highrise buildings we see today to host all kind of human activities. The drifting net aquaculture will be a mere intermediary step still using the water resources of the ocean and its capacity to dilute the fish poop for a massive protein production. High tech close loop production technology including the 99% of space resource (ocean) we have not used yet, will give us a century more of frontier expansion on the planet before we are ready to expand to space. We can not stop expanding and exploring and stabilize within “established land and agriculture frames” – this would be against human nature and the right to “aspire more” and dream of a better future. Companies that build up the key technologies for this development will get rich.http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t49529137/corporate-sponsoring-foothold-in-ocean-colonization/, ocean colonization and ocean domestication is the next big thing to come up – if you think it trough it is just inevitable.

    #22750
    Avatar of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    ellmer

    Even if the world population would not grow – (and it will)
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t49529137/corporate-sponsoring-foothold-in-ocean-colonization/

    Who says it will? You? Get real, I’ve told you many times there are a lot of predictions. No one can know the future. You’re speaking like you are some kind of a prophet. Proper investment must account for all risks, and in this case there are a lot of risks: the UN median estimate suggests that population will stabilize.

    if you think it trough it is just inevitable.

    Uh… Ok, Moses.

    The sphere will be arranged in “dynamic geography” to interchange and trade with other spheres or nearby land cities.

    Well, your non-interference sphere doesn’t work: look in another thread, I answered there. There was a bug, but now it’s visible.

    new industries, cellphones, internet, pop up faster than you can follow.

    And they also die fast. Many of them don’t have any strategy, only “build up some stupid patents and sell out”. Do you really want to support business that spies on you and lies to you? That’s exactly what those new industries like cellphone and internet companies do. I thought seasteading was about new world, yet you are speaking about the same: creating plain old deceptive business by way of FUD about population increase, living space deficit etc, and all of that under jurisdiction of existing violent states.

    High tech close loop production technology including the 99% of space resource (ocean) we have not used yet, will give us a century more of frontier expansion on the planet before we are ready to expand to space.

    No, it will be business expansion, not frontier expansion. Just like Internet expansion was driven by NSA and the Internet itself was created inside the Army and only later selled to those who don’t care about privacy, while there were and still are alternatives like Fidonet or WiFi mesh networks. You essentially suggest to repeat the history of IT industry and in the end you will find that you are under state command and not a free man.

    Nobody is good with bycicle and a mao suit anymore nor can be restricted to such a lifstyle by any “politics” or “regulation” thinkable

    Yes, they can, read about Pol Pot.

    All “not closed loop” activities that take something from nature, like fishing, hunting, agriculture, poluting industrial processes will disappear more quickly than anyone imagines due to more and more stringent ambient impact regulations.

    OK, show me who abides by regulation then. Nature destruction is going on faster than ever.

    All this points to explosive increase in production sites, these sites need space and energy.

    There are also other trends, like miniaturization and mobility.

    The drifting net aquaculture will be a mere intermediary step still using the water resources of the ocean and its capacity to dilute the fish poop for a massive protein production.

    It doesn’t work like that, you need more input than you get output. It’s basic termodynamics. The more processed food is, the more energy is lost and the less nutritious it is.

    We can not stop expanding and exploring and stabilize within “established land and agriculture frames” – this would be against human nature and the right to “aspire more” and dream of a better future.
    Light will come from diode lamps not from the sun.

    You can’t get rid of primitives like plant cultivation, on land or on sea. The fish raising will always be detriment to humanity in terms of energy, because of physics laws. Sun photons > diode lamps. Sun photons > plants > fish. It’s a trophic pyramid and termodynamics laws.


    Oceanopolis

    We are spending 56% of the total budget on defense alone!
    How can we fix anything, environmental wise, in US alone, on $13.6 billion pocket change? And how much of that, after red tape, is REALLY left for the environment? $5 billion, maybe?
    It’s a joke.

    The real joke is that other countries are trying to militarily compete with the US. It’s just not gonna work, US is 50% of world defense expenses. The only way (without changing the world order) is for other states to become vassals to US and then the budgets can be allocated so that the US does military and some other states do mainly environmental protection, some others do food producton. The Earth is too small now for many states, in fact there is already only one state, all the others are on the outskirts, it’s like Rome with “barbarians” all over again. People speak about China, well, there was already Asian state that was trying to become number one, Japan, and then it entered stagnation. Bottom line is, unless some fools come to rule in Washington, the US probably won’t lose military superiority on Earth for a very long time. I’m not pro-US or something, just saying how it is in the world now.

    #22751

    concrete sea structures
    …it is predicted that construction activities during the 21st century will be dominated by concrete sea structures…
    ————
    Concrete has clearly emerged as the most economical and durable material for the building of the vast majority of marine structures. Reinforced concrete too has overcome the technological problems making it a suitable material for the construction of advanced marine structures such as offshore drilling platforms, superspan bridges and undersea tunnels. As the world becomes increasingly ocean-oriented for energy and other resources it is predicted that construction activities during the 21st century will be dominated by concrete sea structures. The performance of concrete in the marine environment is presented here in a logical manner giving state-of-the-art reviews of the nature of the marine environment, the composition and properties of concrete, history of concrete performance in seawater, major causes of deterioration of concrete in the marine environment, selection of materials and mix proportioning for durable concrete, recommended concrete practice and repair of deteriorated marine structures. It is of value to any design or construction engineer responsible for marine structures.

    Concrete in the Marine Environment (Modern Concrete Technology)
    P.K. Mehta (Author)
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1851666222/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=concretesubma-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1851666222
    —————–
    The pressure on the ambient is already too high – a worldwide extinction is in progress – we need to integrate human activity like “production sites” and “human habitation units” in a way that consumes less space and less natural resouces. Human activity needs to get much more ambient neutral. Only the volume of the oceans can accomodate that.

    Land housing and production favors square building – aquatic building sites favor concrete sphere, shell, and honeycomb building technology.

    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/f541915/outstanding-floating-concrete-structures-news/
    —————
    “are you building something… ramform? ” – yes to get the general picture what i am doing, keep updated at:
    http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/

    #22752
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Ellmer said : “Concrete has clearly emerged as the most economical and durable material for the building of the vast majority of marine structures. ”

    Great! AGAIN, lets say i build a few cement floatation cells despite getting no advice from you or anyone else on this topic, how do i attach them to a structure in a way they don’t shatter? If i can build my own business out on the ocean, or coax one to build on a base i provide, i want to be assured i can add increments of floatation as needed, because if one day they bring out 10 more people as guests (with luggage) and employees (with tools), i need to have another ton of lift at the ready.

    I hope the reinforced cement cells are as follows: 2.5ft/0.75m diameter, 4ft/1.2m tall, walls 1in/2.5cm thick, with a cap and bottom closure thickness yet to be determined. I am hoping the entire weight will be under 300lbs/136kg, and will float 1000lbs/450kg. I want to cluster them, but without contact from cell to cell. They may be fragile, and prone to cracking, especially if attached wrong. So what’s the correct way to attach? So like a whale pushing to get into the fish and lobster farm won’t shatter them and sink me. I may need to make them 2 inches/5cm thick, but i’d much rather not.

    #22753
    Avatar of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    ellmer

    The pressure on the ambient is already too high – a worldwide extinction is in progress – we need to integrate human activity like “production sites” and “human habitation units” in a way that consumes less space and less natural resouces. Human activity needs to get much more ambient neutral. Only the volume of the oceans can accomodate that.

    Habitation unit problem can’t be solved with ocean. Those who buy a lot of space for living will buy even more in the ocean, if it’s cheaper. Jevons paradox in action:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
    And production sites need workers, so they must be located near cities. Like KatOnTri noticed, it’s not a farming problem or living space problem, it’s an issue of culture, education, morality… If people don’t care about their environment or about their future, no innovation will improve the state of affairs.

    #22754
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    If people don’t care about the environment or their future than screw them. Why associate with such people for seasteading? I am not elitist, but the reality is that seasteading is not for everybody. It takes a certain mind frame…

    I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss what or what not seasteading can or cannot change, if done right, meaning that it should start with a totally different set of socioeconomic and political “rules” than the one we have to obey by, as we speak. My life has change a lot, in many positive ways while working in the marine environment and living aboard a sailboat for 10 years, which is the closest that one can get to a seasteading lifestyle so far, in my book.

    Kat, Ellmer is right about concrete. What other material(s) should be used for seasteading? Steel will rust. Wood will rot. Fiberglass will blister. And anything else is too expensive. Marine fenders can be used between concrete structures in order to raft them up, no different than steel or fiberglass. A 3″- 4″ steel reinforced concrete hull, when done right, it is VERY solid. And if it happen to crack, it can be fixed :)

    #22755
    Avatar of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    OCEANOPOLIS

    If people don’t care about the environment or their future than screw them. Why associate with such people for seasteading? I am not elitist, but the reality is that seasteading is not for everybody. It takes a certain mind frame…

    I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss what or what not seasteading can or cannot change, if done right, meaning that it should start with a totally different set of socioeconomic and political “rules” than the one we have to obey by, as we speak.

    That’s exactly what I’m speaking about. Ellmer is proposing that seasteading can be realized by way of marketing square meter price to random people or by way of opening floating hotels for good members of the Establishment, or similar ventures. It can’t lead to seasteading. It will become sea business not different in any way from common land businesses. Why associate with people who don’t care about freedom, seasteading, mobility or honesty? You should ask that ellmer, it’s his plan.

    #22756

    floating honeycomb
    To answer the “how to build things on the water” (ramform) question – a series of fotos. Food production at sea will rquire human living quaters at sea, honeycomb, ramform, oceansphere, living space is the answer.
    build on the water
    You can also build small scale.
    floating dock
    No big difference to land building. Not in the basic technology, not in connections, no difference in cost per cubic meter living space to land building therefore. Square honeycomb is easier to perform for square thinking construction firms – shell bulding is much more lighter, efficient, and Draupner wave impact safe.
    concrete shell, multi vault
    At the end the most efficient enclosure of all is a Sphere, the most sturdy enclosure is a sphere, the most bang for the bug in living space per material use is a sphere, – we see few spheres on land now due to the difficulty of building spheres on land (staging). But building spheres on the water and in the water is easy. http://yook3.com
    So in the end most of the volume of human activity will inevitably end up in spheres in the planetary water body as this is the ambient that represents 99% of the planetary living space volume. The current human activity level on land is already causing mass extincion – so closed loop human activity processes in oceanic spheres are not a exotic option not a choice, not a political thing, it is a urgent necessity. 30m concrete spheres of the ORES sistem show the way. http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56101129/concrete-sphere-wind-energy-storage-sistem/, the tecnology for the 30m ocean sphere is there, the cost is feasible (similar or lower than land housing cost), the MIT study shows that. Floating platforms in honeycomb technology will play a intermediary step role in protected bays, ramform platforms the size of Ramform Banff are already going open ocean and deal with Draupner events.

    sparse city dome
    City dome
    living space bubble
    Small living space bubble – safe in Draupner events, can be placed everywhere on the planet. On land in the ocean…the need to produce room sized and house sized units on large industrial scale is up.

    #22757
    Avatar of Ancient Man
    Ancient Man
    Member

    the tecnology for the 30m ocean sphere is there, the cost is feasible (similar or lower than land housing cost)

    The price of house (or anything, for that matter) isn’t directly related to the cost of manufacture. Sellers ask as much as people are willing to pay.

    So in the end most of the volume of human activity will inevitably end up in spheres in the planetary water body as this is the ambient that represents 99% of the planetary living space volume.

    Not all space should be used for living. I don’t understand why do you think that 1% (though it’s not like you supply statistics) of all space isn’t enough for living. It’s a logical fallacy to assume that if there’s a lot of space, then it must be used for living.

    The current human activity level on land is already causing mass extincion – so closed loop human activity processes in oceanic spheres are not a exotic option not a choice, not a political thing, it is a urgent necessity.

    Closed loop can be done on earth. Ocean isn’t needed for that. Moreover, no one cares about legislation, so closed loop won’t be used by anyone except the richest or the greenest. In Asia and Africa people still use kerosene lamps — and you tell me about mass introduction of closed loops. Get real.

    #22758
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    And yet, no one has answered my question. It’s such a simple question. Oceanopolous came close to an answer, but using a “marine fender” 150ft deep won’t capture the float cell against impact or water motion, the big enough fender will cost far more than the cell and the pressure will likely just collapse it. And i never said Ellmer was wrong about cement. I am not using concrete because of the thinness desired, i don’t think the mix needs gravel or rocks in it to hold unpressurized air underwater. Sure, if a whale cracks it, and all the air leaks out, and the seastead sinks, the cell may be easily repaired, once pulled up from the bottom of the ocean. But my plan was with descrete incremental float cells, only as many as needed be made, each can be handled by one person, one diver/uav can attach them, one can be pulled for repairs as needed, and in best case can be repaired inplace without being brought to the surface.

    But my question remains, whatever the frame is made of, when the cell is gently or roughly impacted, by rock outcrop or whale or submarine or wave motion, and the cement cell survives the impact fine but is broken when the seastead frame holding it resists motion, what is the method to hold that cell so it’s holding up the frame but isn’t broken by being held?

    Consider the softdrink can, or beer can. Glue one end of it ridgidly to a plank, or to a brick. Now push the free end with your palm of hand. Any deformation in the can, or crinkle sound, is the sound of the cement float cell breaking. Consider that the cell is under the board and holding it up to the tune of 1000lbs and anything that can be mashed, like marine bumpers, will be squashed solidly flat and kept squashed for many years, loosing it’s resiliency and pliability. And then a whale decides to rub against it to remove an irritating barnacle.

    Now how do you hold that cell with something the USCG will allow to be in the water as part of the vessel, with no pollution or degradation over many years?

    #22759
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    When I talk about concrete as a building material I am in fact talking about ferrocement. Check out the following sites for more info:

    http://www.ferrocement.com/

    http://www.ferrocement.org/

    Personally, I plan to build small plywood floating pontoons (up to 40′ x 15′), ferocement sheathed, that can be rafted with houseboats to create small “floating islands like structures” that can be moored closed to shore down here in the Florida Keys and rent them as on the water recreation or fishing, diving or water sports accommodations.

    The FERROCEMENT SHEATHING construction process I plan to use is more or less described here (he is restoring an old wooden boat): http://www.ferrocement.org/sheath.html

    #22760
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Sorry, but http://www.ferrocement.org/sheath.html is a pile of executeable javascript, and i don’t trust it. You don’t need .js or java to make a webpage, and they are obviously using it to hide something.

    Oceanopolis, i was going to try the ferrocement approach, but without the *steel* reinforcing, because i figure with the design i am using being so thin, it would be very difficult to keep the steel in the center of a one inch thick pour at the bottom of a 4ft deep cylinder mold. Instead, i am going with chopped fiberglass and polyester. Someone near here did a thin driveway with it 10 years ago, with no subsurface prep at all, and it’s held up very well.

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