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Ocean Shallow Spots

Home Forums Community General Chat Ocean Shallow Spots

This topic contains 23 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Farmer Farmer 3 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
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  • #1294
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    There has been some mention of anchoring in shallow spots of the ocean.

    Has anyone found a good map of the ocean, which would show with precision the shallow areas?

    I tried google maps, but it doesn’t give an exact depth measurement, just the vague paleness of shallowness.

    Also has we come up with a list of prime shallow spots in international waters?

    These areas could in future be congregation points for seasteading pioneers.

    I’m particularly interested in the south pacific, as Marie Byrd Land is the only unclaimed land in the world.

    #10707

    Average ocean depth is 3790 metres (12430 ft) this means 90% of all world ocean spots are not deeper than that. Anchoring in that kind of depth is possible and has already been achived – here is a link to a suggestion that was made on another thread.

    seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/structure-designs/apply-seasteading-concrete-shell-structures#comment-12185

    It is taking the traditional deep anchor with floating line (invented by cousteau) taking the flaws out of it and combine it with the methods that gas and oil industry use for laying pipes in the deep sea – make it affordable for relative small budgets.

    Cousteau was the first to see that if you want anchor deep you need a “floating line” or the weight of the line itself will break it.

    His problem was that his polypropylen line got cut by sea animals who investigate that strange object in the deep sea environment with their teeth, among those are sleeper sharks which have quite a set of teeth for a soft plastic line.

    Deep sea cables are covered by a steel mantle for this reason.

    I would suggest the following – let go all ideas of “line and spooling equipment” spooling kilometers of thick lines is prohibitive..

    My suggestion is the following : get a plastic extruder mount it on the shore, start extruding a solid piece of plastic (fiber enforced) and let it float out on the water. Keep extruding until you got a long flexible solid piece of plastic of 4 kilometer of length floating on the ocean surface. Now load a concrete anchor block on a ship, grab the end of the plastic trunk and pull the plastic piece to the anchor location behind your ship. Then connect the anchor block to the end of the plastic piece and toss the anchor block overboard – it goes down taking the end of the plastic trunk with it in a long curve to the bottom. The plastic has enough flexibility to form the 4km radius curve all the way to the bottom. You connect the seastead to the other end and enjoy a flexibe mooring, able to take thousands of tons of force, litte sensible to fatigue, tooth save, ever lasting.

    To install it you need no winch, no spooling, no big cost. Just the cost of raw plastics and rent of an extruder.

    You can alternate the sistem by doing a couple of pieces connecting them to a “chain” of a few segments.

    The basics is – when anchoring deep forget spooling and lines – go to long thin neutral floating flexible “anchor elements” instead.

    Wil

    #10814
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Still it would be nice to know the “shallower” areas of the ocean.

    Like the expansion lines in the ocean seem to relatively shallow, as they are pale in color.

    I’m just wondering how close to the surface are they?

    Is there an ocean depth map with a legend or scale?

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    #10817
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Hello! here is a interactive map of some north Atlancit Seamounts &Sand banks with details about each one.

    you see a little map on the top with strange yellow things, click the yellow things. (i dident get it 1st time lol)

    seasteading.org/interact/forums/research/philosophy-and-law/seasteading-uk-laws its on my post here with otehr maps i found col info in.

    & a direct link here http://www.ngo.grida.no/wwfneap/Projects/MPAmap.htm

    I really thought the TSI should provide an interactive map, of the sea that we could use by adding sites we have found.. but no thats seams to logical for some i guess.

    hope this helps yours kindly.

    #10848
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    well I wasn’t thinking of any “continental shelf” features.

    Rather the ocean has many mountains,

    some of which are islands.

    Others have peaks potentially near the surface,

    so these ocean peaks could serve as anchor points,

    and perhaps even host some structures.

    would probably also act as at last a partial breakwater.

    I was thinking about the various ocean mountains in and around the pacific islands,

    like around Piticairn and Easter Island.

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    #10854
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Well their should be at least one or two seamounts outisde of EEZ’s listed on the map if you have a look, but there are other links on that site one might to Pacific area.

    #10858
    Avatar of Farmer
    Farmer
    Participant

    Consider this:
    Build a cylinder of chicken wire or rebar with an anchor at one end.
    Place floats along its length so that no part of it has to bear the weight of more than a few meters of its length.
    As it is constructed lower it into the water.
    When the anchor reaches the ocean floor fix a small wind turbine generator to the top.
    Wire it so that the cathode is the steel wire moor.
    Float the anode on top of the water.
    The wire mesh will cover itself with seacrete.
    Of course this has to be strong enough to support its own weight before the floats give out.
    #10971
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    I’d like to mention the Flemish Cap as a potential location.

    It is outside of Canada’s EEZ zone,

    between newfoundland in europe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_Cap

    Depths at the cap range from approximately 400 feet (122 m) to 2,300 feet (700 m).

    As you can see it’s along the gulf stream so should be quite warm.

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    #10972
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    The subject of seamounts outside of EEZs is disputed.

    I did a lot of reading on the subject and posted a number of resources in the “Viva La Revolution” thread.

    My conclusions were that there are a large number of options/seamounts(depending on your depth tolerance) however, the minerva reef is the most attractive, as evidenced by it being the selection of an actual financed attempt at establishing a new island republic.

    This makes it ideal from an independance standpoint, however from a protected by a larger country standpoint there are probably better options.

    The form your own military location is obvious: Minerva.

    The weapons forum on 4chan is always enthusiastic about the idea of fortifying minerva and going to war with Tonga, so you have at least an army of airsofters/weeboos on your side.

    Now all that’s required is a cheap source of naval mines for the purposes of a blockade/asymetrical warfare. Then you can start bringing in the barges/jetty building materials.

    #10973
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    This stuff really pisses off the hippies:

    http://wikimapia.org/63641/Thilafushi

    Known as the Maldive’s “rubbish island” the idea of turning trash in to real estate is a proven science.

    #10977
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    I’d stay away from the Flemish Cap. As I said in the “Viva La Revolution” thread:

    The Flemish Cap is a huge area off the eastern coast of Newfoundland and is outside any EEZ and can get as shallow as 100 to 200m in spots. But I’m not setting up my seastead in an area where the water surface temperature never gets above 13 degrees C.

    On top of that, it is an area ripe with hurricanes. Several storms each year pass right through that area. And do you really want to setup shop in the location made famous by a book (and movie) called “The Perfect Storm”?

    #10981
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    How abot the Johnston Atoll? Nobody’s there…. The Navy left. There is a runaway, roads and a harbor on the main island. It looks like there where buildings but they where removed, but the foundation is still there. Just go there and populate it.

    #10982
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    How abot the Johnston Atoll? Nobody’s there…. The Navy left. There is a runaway, roads and a harbor on the main island. It looks like there where buildings but they where removed, but the foundation is still there. Just go there and populate it.

    Well first off it’s claimed by America.

    second of all you’d need to bring a geiger counter

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll

    The Johnston Atoll area was used during the 1950s and 1960s as an American nuclear weapons test site – for both above-ground and underground nuclear tests. It was also used for a rocket launch site for some of the first American satellites" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_satellites">spy satellites. Later on, it became the site of a chemical weapons depot and the site of the Johnston Atoll Chemical Agent Disposal System (JACADS). All of the chemical weapons that were once stored on Johnston Island have been incinerated, and that process was completed in 2000 and JACADS demolished by 2003.

    though we could use it as a rocket launch site,

    assuming it is indeed empty.

    not simply “empty of Official personel”,

    where some top-secret personal might reside.

    thank you for the contribution in any case.

    :-)

    So far we have potential seasteading points at:

    Pacific:

    South Pacific Ocean: Minerva Reefs

    North Pacific Ocean: Johnston Atoll

    Atlantic:

    Western North Atlantic: Flemish Cap

    Eastern North Atlantic: Rockall

    Indian:

    Indian Ocean: St. Paul Island

    Also most of Antarctica is vacant.

    And most of the Arctic is vacant.

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    #10984

    When we limit seasteading to the 0,0000001% of the oceans that are represented by shallow spots – this means we can forget about the “society forming mass effect of seasteading anyhow” – either we make it happen “on the whole ocean” – or at least a big part of it – or it stays meaningless. A tiny limited landfill somewhere is just nothing that will have importance anyway. Look for deep sea anchors and forget shallow spots. If it does not float and has no potential to colonize the oceans it is a “non bigdeal” anyhow.

    #10985
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    “reclaim” it from the gringos! Hawaii is 700 nm away! They wont even now we are there,…Plus, in case one of gets cancer, will have free, “natural chemo” there,…

    Ok, seriously now. In my book, the best spot is Saya de Malha Bank, the Northen Bank, around the Poydenot Rock. Thats a bit SE form Wolf Hilbertz “Autopia” site. And plssssssssss, I dont want to hear about being Mauritius’s EEZ, plsssssssss. (Elspru). Saya de Malha is 720 nm N of Mauritius. Claiming it part of their EEZ is plain an simple BS.

    What are they gonna do? Go to “war” with us if we drop there? They dont have regular military forces, but they do have a Coast Guard. Well, their military expenditures are 0.3% of GDP ($15 Billion-2009). Thats $45 Mil a year. Now, not to think about war, but if we’ll get there one day, our seastead(s) will be far bigger than their 1? 2? Coast Guard cutters. (I assume) Also our budget (I assume again :-) will be @ least the same as their defense budget. And I assume (again) that we will have plenty of firepower. (it will be idiotic, in general, not to – we did talk about it). Since their claim of EEZ is already shaky in terms of international law, and since we will go there as a multinational peacefull “organization”, autonomous in nature, with the noble purpose of doing scientifical seasteading research and research in general of the Saya de Malha Bank, I am almost sure that Mauritius will give us the scientific research permission and, if we will show some greenbacks, we shud be able to conduct an economy “research”. Let me remind you about UNCLOS:

    Scientific Explortation

    All nations have the right to conduct scientific research in the oceans, provided that the research is 1) conducted exclusively for peaceful purposes; 2) conducted with acceptable scientific methods; 3) does not interfere with other legitimate uses of the sea; and 4) conducted with respect to the other terms of the UNCLOS treaty, including those pertaining to protection and preservation of the marine environment.[127] Coastal nations have the exclusive right to regulate, authorize, and conduct scientific research in their territorial sea, which means that scientific research within the territorial sea can only be conducted with the expressed consent of the nation.[128]

    Foreign nations that wish to conduct scientific research in the EEZ or on the continental shelf of another nation may do so, but only with the consent of the other nation. Nations may reject a requests by a foreign nation for access to their EEZ or continental shelf if the project: 1) is of direct significance for the exploration and exploitation of natural resources (living or non-living, unless the research is to be conducted on the continental shelf more than 200 nautical miles from the baselines); 2) involves drilling into the continental shelf, the use of explosives, or the introduction of harmful substances into the marine environment; 3) involves the construction or use of artificial islands; or 4) if either the proposal provided to the nation regarding the research was inaccurate or if the requesting nation has outstanding obligations to the coastal nation for prior research projects.[129]

    Foreign nations wishing to conduct scientific research off the coast of another nation must inform the coastal nation of the nature and objectives of the project, the methods to be used, the precise location where the research is to take place, the timeframe for the research, information regarding the organization conducting the actual research, and to what extent the coastal nation may take part in the project.[130] While undertaking scientific research off the coast of a nation, the research team from the visiting nation must guarantee the right of the coastal nation to participate or be represented in the research project without obligation to contribute to the costs of the project. The visiting research team from the foreign nation is also obliged to provide the coastal nation with preliminary and final reports as well as access to all data and samples taken during the course of the project. Visiting research teams from foreign nations must also notify the coastal nation of any changes to the agreed upon plans for conducting the research and must also remove any and all equipment once the experiment is completed (unless another agreement has been made with the coastal nation regarding removal).[131]

    Yes, “Nations may reject a requests by a foreign nation for access to their EEZ or continental shelf if the project: …… 3) involves the construction or use of artificial islands. That’s way we will be a floating seastead(s) and we will not permanently attach to the seabed. Just anchored.

    In time our relation with Mauritius will turn into a partnership, and from there, sovereignty is just around the corner.

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